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capt. mike
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i think the rescue team reported no fuel in the [A?] tank.
i did the route simulated on flightsoft and took the course that would make most sense if ok WX and given the plane, a musketeer which is seriously
underpowered and slow - just built like a tank as are all Beeches - that's why it weighed so much but for dog slow speed.
i think Juan reported he called home from - ? was it Calexico maybe? and that was late afternoon?
makes sense - customs done and back in USA - get gassed and one leg to go.
i think WX played a role. and if he planned gas just for distance needed and minimum VFR reserves, then 40 kts on the nose would eat that to pieces
when your true airspeed is only a hundred knots or so.
the winds i think varied but the same cold front had passed and was in AZ with very crummy conditions - low freezing levels, rain and gusty winds
with turbulance. if he is on the back side of the low expect strong head winds and turbulence.
i don't like to fly socal VFR in good WX, and even then with unltd vis i do IFR in that system cause it is so unforgiving. Add in lowering light,
potential fuel reserve issues and poor vis from clouds and rain - toss in a mix of wind and shear. the NTSB arre damn good and will sort it out.
alternatively he might have had carb ice, which with temps in effect plus visible moisture - look out. unless he was fuel injected but i doubt it.
probably an O-320 LYC.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Ken Bondy
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Mood: Mellow
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mike I've flown that route (Calexico-Van Nuys) literally a hundred times, both IFR and VFR. It passes abeam Torrance as you approach LAX. It was my
normal route returning from a Baja trip. I have had some bad wx but never experienced anything like a constant 40-knot headwind. This is really
puzzling. Wonder if they had some kind of a fuel leak, like at a fuel cap. I once drained one of the mains on my Baron on a flight from Modesto to
Van Nuys. Started with full fuel in Modesto, right engine quit suddenly over Gorman. I know, I know, should pay more attention to the gages. A
quick switch to the aux tank solved the problem immediately but it sure scared the hell out of me. Problem was diagnosed as a faulty o-ring seal on
the fuel cap, which sucked out all the fuel. It collapsed the bladder which had to be replaced. So I know first-hand that things like that can
happen. I know it won't bring those guys back but the reason for this tragedy will be important for all pilots to know.
carpe diem!
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
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fuel leak might very well be the thing, a slow siphoning with the effect of negative pressure or vacuum over the wing via our friend Bernoulli?
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Ken Bondy
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Sure is possible. I should add one thing. I made a little joke about not paying attention to the [fuel] gages, but in reality the collapsing bladder
jammed the sensor in the tank, so the gages on the panel stayed in, or close to, the "full" position on the panel. So I got no warning that the fuel
was being siphoned out of the tank until the engine quit.
carpe diem!
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Ken Bondy-------why did the fuel-bladder have to be replaced? Would not re-fueling it just make it go back to it's original shape within the
compartment? (apparently not, but I don't know why)
I have installed several of those "fuel bladders" in a Baron and they are pretty flexible.
Barry
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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My hope is when the investigation is complete it will aid in preventing this from happening to any more of our pilot amigos. We have lost too many in
such a short time.
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Sidamone
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 8-8-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
Sure is possible. I should add one thing. I made a little joke about not paying attention to the [fuel] gages, but in reality the collapsing bladder
jammed the sensor in the tank, so the gages on the panel stayed in, or close to, the "full" position on the panel. So I got no warning that the fuel
was being siphoned out of the tank until the engine quit. |
Was this before AD's were instituted? Or was yours the first Baron in it's illustrious history to have this happen?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Of all places to engage in a chitfight, this ain't it.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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It is apparent that there are a few people on this board and specifically this topic who don't know when to keep their mouth shut or when to take
something to u2u
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
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Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
It is apparent that there are a few people on this board and specifically this topic who don't know when to keep their mouth shut or when to take
something to u2u |
Right you are-------sorry folks-------got carried away.
Barry
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
It is apparent that there are a few people on this board and specifically this topic who don't know when to keep their mouth shut or when to take
something to u2u |
Right you are-------sorry folks-------got carried away.
Barry |
Barry...........not referring to you........
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Sidamone
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 8-8-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
It is apparent that there are a few people on this board and specifically this topic who don't know when to keep their mouth shut or when to take
something to u2u |
Thank you for your eloquent words, and your concern. Thus far, nothing has been handled by u2u, on the contrary, some have expressed to know more
information to avoid instances like this in the future. We all have our different "takes" obviously, when presented with information. For example,
when I'm presented with an implausible story about staring at gas gauges from a tank being used and they don't show depletion, I ask "what did you
expect, some kind of alternative energy source was powering the airplane?" "Did it really come as a surprise when the engine quit?"
Think about it, these people are flying over your house and your schoolyards. We've already heard from, Captain Mike that it's damned inconvenient to
lose all that gained altitude and come down, copy the ATIS, enter the traffic pattern, land and taxi to the fuel dock and all that boring stuff, to
get gas. "most hate to do a let down not planned" but you can only stretch it so far"
Again, the majority of these Nitwits regard the Interstate Highway System as a network of emergency landing fields that will pull their sorry asses
out of the fire, they themselves were responsible for. Never mind your babies in their carseats, that pilot has to land. He's got an Emergency! To
Chuck Chambers' credit, it's obvious he tried to avoid injuries to motorists and people by aiming for the water. The last thing he should have said to
Steve before touching down is "OPEN THE DOOR". After the disorientating experience of flipping over and possibly a momentary blackout, it would've
been near impossible to egress in time. RIP. There was no need for this, it could've easily been avoided. When your needles go below a quarter, the
fartherest you should be from the airport is downwind.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Nitwits
Sidamone....Your response says it all.
I rest my case 
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Sidamone
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 8-8-2009
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Ya Basta.
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BajaRob
Senior Nomad
Posts: 722
Registered: 9-15-2003
Location: Bahia Santa Maria y Newport Or
Member Is Offline
Mood: Life is good
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Doug
Time to get the hook?
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jeans
Super Nomad
Posts: 1059
Registered: 9-16-2002
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Mood: Encantada
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Another Niwit reveals Himself
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
Sidamone....Your response says it all.
I rest my case |
I am deeply saddened by this tragedy having "known" (through writings and his travel stories) of Carlos Fiesta since I first hit the Baja online scene
in 1997.
When he and his beautiful family posed for that portrait on the beach, its being used for his remembrance ceremony was not in their plans, I'm sure.
I'm also saddened by yet another example of normal speculation of "What went wrong" to degenerate into name-calling by someone who insists upon
blaming the victim,
without an ounce of first hand knowlege of the facts.
It will take the NTSB months months to determine the cause, yet some NObody emerges from Lurkerdom eager to show off his superior knowledge of all
things aeronautical.
Please let's get back to celebrating the life of our departed Amigo and stop feeding the trolls.
Mom always told me to be different - Now she says...Not THAT different
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Ken Bondy-------why did the fuel-bladder have to be replaced? Would not re-fueling it just make it go back to it's original shape within the
compartment? (apparently not, but I don't know why)
I have installed several of those "fuel bladders" in a Baron and they are pretty flexible.
Barry |
Good question Barry. I had all my work done at Beechcraft West in Van Nuys. They always treated me well and I just trusted that they knew what they
were doing when they told me the bladder had to be replaced. It was a long time ago but I dimly remember the mechanic telling me that the fuel cell
had been damaged.
I am sorry this discussion of "what happened" degenerated into some really ugly comments from one new member, some of the most insensitive comments I
have ever seen on this forum. Obviously we have some experienced pilots here and all of us are intensely interested in finding the cause of a
terrible accident like this, especially since it has some very puzzling aspects. None of us, with the exception of Sidamone, was blaming anyone and
in hindsight, we shouldn't have used this thread for our speculations. We should have started another thread. But that's like altitude above us and
runway behind us. BTW I knew Chuck peripherally through the calendar and his loss, along with his friends, grieves me greatly.
carpe diem!
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sidamone
Ya Basta. |
While some may be upset by his previous posts, I suspect that some may not be translating this correctly????
So now maybe others should not carry it on----as said before, not the proper place and time.
Edit---Ken, your post was not up when I posted and I do agree with you. But I do wonder about how some are translating the phrase, ya basta
[Edited on 11-27-2010 by DianaT]
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow
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Diane
I thought "ya basta" meant the equivalent of "enough, already". But that would have been a pretty appropriate remark from Sidamone at that point in
the thread, yet way out of context with his other posts. So I have no idea what he meant by that.
carpe diem!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64722
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Guys, 'Carlos Fiesta' would not want any of us to be fussing like this... He was one of the happiest, nicest guys on earth... 'Party' was his last
name, afterall.
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