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wessongroup
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The "reports" are not from the "media" .. rather from the Scientic Community and/or Government Agency who's job it is to "study" things and report
findings .. Good or Bad
That the "media" picks them up ... is to be expected ... as controversy is their "Bread and Butter"
And I don't think you or I will see ... what ever happens in 40 to 50 years from now ... know I will not
And I'm sure that others have contrary thoughts on this topic than mine ... which is also expected and welcomed 
Would get pretty boring if people didn't disagree ... on: Vehicles, Tires, fishing gear, et al
Toss another log on the campfire and get me another beer 
[Edited on 2-27-2016 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 2-27-2016 by wessongroup]
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elgatoloco
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flocking brillant! 
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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4x4abc
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going back to the original article in the NYT - the observed dramatic sea level rise (NASA) has been 1/10" per year over the last 20 years.
However, sea level has been 20 feet HIGHER during the last interglacial period (125,000 years ago). And as recently as 20,000 years ago the sea level
was 400 feet LOWER than today. All that without human intervention. No cars. No CO2.
At the going rate of 1/10" per year, we'll see a rise of roughly a foot over the next 100 years.
Might not even be enough to reach David's palm tree.
Will it live another 100 years?
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/gornitz_09/
Harald Pietschmann
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wessongroup
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To be fair, the entire article should be referenced ...
Also the time period "referenced" in the article is 2,800 years .. which in the Geological time scale ... is not even a speed bump
And any projections on how fast, would be a function of all factors combined on the planet which influence a increase in the volume of water in the
ocean's ... in total
Quote: Originally posted by Whale-ista  | Seas Are Rising at Fastest Rate in Last 28 Centuries
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/23/science/sea-level-rise-glo...
The worsening of tidal flooding in American coastal communities is largely a consequence of greenhouse gases from human activity, and the problem will
grow far worse in coming decades, scientists reported Monday.
Those emissions, primarily from the burning of fossil fuels, are causing the ocean to rise at the fastest rate since at least the founding of ancient
Rome, the scientists said. They added that in the absence of human emissions, the ocean surface would be rising less rapidly and might even be
falling.
The increasingly routine tidal flooding is making life miserable in places like Miami Beach; Charleston, S.C.; and Norfolk, Va., even on sunny days.
Though these types of floods often produce only a foot or two of standing saltwater, they are straining life in many towns by killing lawns and trees,
blocking neighborhood streets and clogging storm drains, polluting supplies of freshwater and sometimes stranding entire island communities for hours
by overtopping the roads that tie them to the mainland.
Such events are just an early harbinger of the coming damage, the new research suggests.
“I think we need a new way to think about most coastal flooding,” said Benjamin H. Strauss, the primary author of one of two related studies released
on Monday. “It’s not the tide. It’s not the wind. It’s us. That’s true for most of the coastal floods we now experience.”
In the second study, scientists reconstructed the level of the sea over time and confirmed that it is most likely rising faster than at any point in
28 centuries, with the rate of increase growing sharply over the past century — largely, they found, because of the warming that scientists have said
is almost certainly caused by human emissions.
They also confirmed previous forecasts that if emissions were to continue at a high rate over the next few decades, the ocean could rise as much as
three or four feet by 2100.
Short Answers to Hard Questions About Climate Change
The issue can be overwhelming. The science is complicated. We get it. This is your cheat sheet.
Experts say the situation would then grow far worse in the 22nd century and beyond, likely requiring the abandonment of many coastal cities.
The findings are yet another indication that the stable climate in which human civilization has flourished for thousands of years, with a largely
predictable ocean permitting the growth of great coastal cities, is coming to an end.
“I think we can definitely be confident that sea-level rise is going to continue to accelerate if there’s further warming, which inevitably there will
be,” said Stefan Rahmstorf, a professor of ocean physics at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, in Germany, and co-author of one of the
papers, published online Monday by an American journal, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
In a report issued to accompany that scientific paper, a climate research and communications organization in Princeton, N.J., Climate Central, used
the new findings to calculate that roughly three-quarters of the tidal flood days now occurring in towns along the East Coast would not be happening
in the absence of the rise in the sea level caused by human emissions.
More Reporting on Climate Change
The lead author of that report, Dr. Strauss, said the same was likely true on a global scale, in any coastal community that has had an increase of
saltwater flooding in recent decades.
The rise in the sea level contributes only in a limited degree to the huge, disastrous storm surges accompanying hurricanes like Katrina and Sandy.
Proportionally, it has a bigger effect on the nuisance floods that can accompany what are known as king tides.
The change in frequency of those tides is striking. For instance, in the decade from 1955 to 1964 at Annapolis, Md., an instrument called a tide gauge
measured 32 days of flooding; in the decade from 2005 to 2014, that jumped to 394 days.
Flood days in Charleston jumped from 34 in the earlier decade to 219 in the more recent, and in Key West, Fla., the figure jumped from no flood days
in the earlier decade to 32 in the more recent.
The new research was led by Robert E. Kopp, an earth scientist at Rutgers University who has won respect from his colleagues by bringing elaborate
statistical techniques to bear on longstanding problems, like understanding the history of the global sea level.
Based on extensive geological evidence, scientists already knew that the sea level rose drastically at the end of the last ice age, by almost 400
feet, causing shorelines to retreat up to a hundred miles in places. They also knew that the sea level had basically stabilized, like the rest of the
climate, over the past several thousand years, the period when human civilization arose.
But there were small variations of climate and sea level over that period, and the new paper is the most exhaustive attempt yet to clarify them.
The paper shows the ocean to be extremely sensitive to small fluctuations in the Earth’s temperature. The researchers found that when the average
global temperature fell by a third of a degree Fahrenheit in the Middle Ages, for instance, the surface of the ocean dropped by about three inches in
400 years. When the climate warmed slightly, that trend reversed.
Interactive Graphic
How Much Warmer Was Your City in 2015?
Interactive chart showing high and low temperatures and precipitation for 3,116 cities around the world.
OPEN Interactive Graphic
“Physics tells us that sea-level change and temperature change should go hand-in-hand,” Dr. Kopp said. “This new geological record confirms it.”
In the 19th century, as the Industrial Revolution took hold, the ocean began to rise briskly, climbing about eight inches since 1880. That sounds
small, but it has caused extensive erosion worldwide, costing billions.
Due largely to human emissions, global temperatures have jumped about 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit since the 19th century. The sea is rising at what appears
to be an accelerating pace, lately reaching a rate of about a foot per century.
One of the authors of the new paper, Dr. Rahmstorf, had previously published estimates suggesting the sea could rise as much as five or six feet by
2100. But with the improved calculations from the new paper, his latest upper estimate is three to four feet.
That means Dr. Rahmstorf’s forecast is now more consistent with calculations issued in 2013 by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a United
Nations body that periodically reviews and summarizes climate research. That body found that continued high emissions might produce a rise in the sea
of 1.7 to 3.2 feet over the 21st century.
In an interview, Dr. Rahmstorf said the rise would eventually reach five feet and far more — the only question was how long it would take. Scientists
say the recent climate agreement negotiated in Paris is not remotely ambitious enough to forestall a significant melting of Greenland and Antarctica,
though if fully implemented, it may slow the pace somewhat.
“Ice simply melts faster when the temperatures get higher,” Dr. Rahmstorf said. “That’s just basic physics.”
[Edited on 2-23-2016 by Whale-ista] |
[Edited on 2-27-2016 by wessongroup]
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monoloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | My panic and drama comments are NOT necessarily Baja Nomads, but primarily the rest of the media reports that push the one side of this debate and
discounts the other side in uncomplimentary terms. How is visual proof flat-earthy? To believe that in our lifetime Miami, San Diego, and other ocean
cities will be underwater, well it seems so "Chicken Little" like behavior (I am hoping all here know that story). |
What was that about Miami?
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/25/opinions/sutter-miami-clim...
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Whale-ista
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This is an interesting report about Miami and saltwater intrusion into the city streets, sewers etc. It reminds us: Not all impacts will be visible,
depending on the geology of an area.
Some salt water will infiltrate underground, pushing inland and contaminating groundwater, causing drinking/irrigation water to become salty. (taste
the SQ water recently?)
So- Is the sea rising? Yes- but it won't be visible in some places. It will, however, change the local water quality.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/12/21/the-siege-of-mi...
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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David K
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Lack of fresh ground water (from pumping out or drought) and not rising sea level is what draws sea water into ground water.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Lack of fresh ground water (from pumping out or drought) and not rising sea level is what draws sea water into ground water. |
Do you have a photo that proves that?
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Whale-ista
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I hope you took time to read the New Yorker article. Also, both conditions can exist at the same time. In the case of the low lying areas of Miami, it
is unlikely they are able to draw out enough freshwater to create the flooding described by the writer.
However, in Baja, So Cal and elsewhere- it's likely we now have a combination of over-exploitation of groundwater by industrial scale farming and
thirsty people too. Add encroachment of saltwater -for any reason- and we have major problems along the coast- whatever the cause.
| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Lack of fresh ground water (from pumping out or drought) and not rising sea level is what draws sea water into ground water. |
[Edited on 2-27-2016 by Whale-ista]
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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willardguy
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gosh you're all so adorable I don't know who to believe!
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wessongroup
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http://ca.water.usgs.gov/data/drought/drought-impact.html
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc |
However, sea level has been 20 feet HIGHER during the last interglacial period (125,000 years ago). And as recently as 20,000 years ago the sea level
was 400 feet LOWER than today. All that without human intervention. No cars. No CO2.
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I often see statements like the above, made for the purpose, I think, to somehow discredit anthropogenic climate change. But the fact that the planet
has warmed naturally in the past, does not in any way eliminate the possibility that this time it is due the burning of fossil fuels for the past 175
years or so.
[Edited on 2-27-2016 by SFandH]
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David K
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YES! I have photos that do prove the sea level is not higher, so it couldn't be the cause... and it has been often stated that farmers pumping out
fresh water has caused it to become saltier.
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Whale-ista
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thank you- interesting images and information.
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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Whale-ista
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc |
However, sea level has been 20 feet HIGHER during the last interglacial period (125,000 years ago). And as recently as 20,000 years ago the sea level
was 400 feet LOWER than today. All that without human intervention. No cars. No CO2.
|
I often see statements like the above, made for the purpose, I think, to somehow discredit anthropogenic climate change. But the fact that the planet
has warmed naturally in the past, does not in any way eliminate the possibility that this time it is due the burning of fossil fuels for the past 175
years or so.
[Edited on 2-27-2016 by SFandH] |
Thank you for this important point:the RATE of change, plus the extreme shifts, makes this very different from the previously observed cycles.
Also factor in a much larger and more established population: Humanity can't just pickup and move entire coastal cities to new locations, as they had
to do a few times in the middle ages.
We will have a hard time managing these extreme higher/lower air and water temps, droughts/floods, tides etc. with billions of people being impacted.
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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David K
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I am just wondering, is there some belief that humans are somehow an alien species on this planet?
I am a believer that humans are a part of this planet, a natural part just like all other earthly plants and animals. Of course, maybe those who think
humans are not, explains why they think any climate change is unnatural and human caused, despite that climate changes without humans and always has?
Nature (Mother Earth, God, or whatever) can deal with natural events... it has for billions of years.
Has anyone who thinks the tiny areas where humans live and create pollution, ever been out on the ocean, far enough out where you don't see land?
Well, that is what MOST of the earth looks like. Then you have polar ice caps, mountains, deserts, plains, forests, jungles, swamps, lakes, and
finally towns and cities... Man's footprint is still not as huge as some here believe. Highway One destroyed natural vegetation about 100 meters or
more wide through central Baja in 1973, a real shame and a scar for many years. Yet, go another 100 meters into the desert and that is still what most
of central Baja look like... untouched. Some human activity is damaging and needed for basic living. It is still minute when compared to the damage
from flash floods, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, etc.
I am all for clean air and water and not trashing the planet, but to think humans are mightier than the planet, mightier than Nature (Mother Earth,
God, etc.), and has the ability to change global climate and sea levels, is just not happening.
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Mexitron
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If you were a botanist David you might think differently---for example the Great Plains--one third of the US--are essentially gone---farming and
cattle have either overrun them or had secondary effects. The vast California grasslands are almost completely transformed from native bunchgrasses
to annual European invasive grasses and weeds. In Baja and much of the southwest US Tamarix have choked off waterways---take a look at the Rio Grande
valley sometime---hundreds of square miles of non-native Tamarix that has suffocated the original ecosystem and pumps vital water supplies into the
atmosphere---the Pecos River is a trickle now because of that. Come out to Texas and see non-native Ligustrum, Bamboo, and Nandina choking out the
Oak Woodland understories. Story is the same around the world.
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David K
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Hi Steve,
So if one plants species is replaced by another... I understand it is different, but life still goes on.
Who is to say that when an animal transports a seed (birds do this a lot, and how palm trees are found where water is, in Baja) that is not a
"natural" event?
I understand the opinions that change is bad, but if a natural earth animal relocates a natural earth plant, is that really unnatural... or just not
convenient? Thinking this logically, not emotionally.
Thank you!
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MMc
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I am no expert in this field in any way, shape or form.
If we see a problem and deny we have a issue, shame on us for ignoring it.
If we do something to change and correct the issue, then we all win.
If we do something to change or correct the issue and it does not change the problem, what have we lost.
If man was to reduce his footprint in this world the world might be a better place. This of course ignores the that rest of the world wants their
share too.
I am pretty fatalistic with humans controlling the world. The world will keep spinning, we might not be a factor.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron | | If you were a botanist David you might think differently---for example the Great Plains--one third of the US--are essentially gone---farming and
cattle have either overrun them or had secondary effects. The vast California grasslands are almost completely transformed from native bunchgrasses
to annual European invasive grasses and weeds. In Baja and much of the southwest US Tamarix have choked off waterways---take a look at the Rio Grande
valley sometime---hundreds of square miles of non-native Tamarix that has suffocated the original ecosystem and pumps vital water supplies into the
atmosphere---the Pecos River is a trickle now because of that. Come out to Texas and see non-native Ligustrum, Bamboo, and Nandina choking out the
Oak Woodland understories. Story is the same around the world. |
Love it! You opened an important door.
The aggressively invasive homo europaeus albescens killed 20 million of the native inhabitants. Choking the original ecosystem. Erasing all traces of
other species.
Visit some of the cancer spots (LA, New York etc) and see how Asian, Black etc homo subsets are creating sick new environments.
But you would rather focus on the Tamarisk from Africa. Brought over by the Jesuit padres. I am sure David has that covered in his new book.
Without the Tamarisk early farming would not have been possible. Thriving even on the poorest water (including salt), creating fast wind protection
and soil erosion management. Providing strong wood for construction.
Now that we don't need them any more, it's called an invasive species.
Harald Pietschmann
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