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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
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It all depends on your definition of "education".
I'm old enough to remember when teachers used to "educate" with a paddle.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
if we can go from a country with 80% cigarette smokers to one with less than 20% smokers in 50 years, we can convince people that drugs are not the
answer, too. Most of that drop was from education.
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80%? This is documented? Never would have thought it was that high.
I would argue that much of the reduction is due to a combination of anti-smoking laws and intimidation. But...how would you go prove it? 
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
I'm old enough to remember when teachers used to "educate" with a paddle.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
if we can go from a country with 80% cigarette smokers to one with less than 20% smokers in 50 years, we can convince people that drugs are not the
answer, too. Most of that drop was from education.
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80%? This is documented? Never would have thought it was that high.
I would argue that much of the reduction is due to a combination of anti-smoking laws and intimidation. But...how would you go prove it? |
I am happy to report that cigarette smokers are only 10%
of California residents.
For me, the quitting point was six years ago, when I
realized I was spending over 2k per year on the dam--d
things.
CaboRon
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Barry A.
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Like CaboRon----------I quit (about 10 years ago)-------mostly because I was upsetting my loved ones; it seemed like a stupid thing to be doing with
what I was learning everyday; and it was totally too expensive-------that was the final straw.
Once I made the decision, I quit cold turkey, never ever having another cig (or cigar) to this day.
One of the best decisions of my life, bar none.
Barry
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
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I have followed this dialogue with great interest. I appreciate the civility and clarity of many of the posters. I have learned from the statistics.
It is easy to run for political office on anti vice issues. It is easy to mouth a conservative position, really takes very little nuanced thinking.
Ban all vices and lower taxes. Real solutions to complex problems require more and clearer thinking.
My views have been stated already on this topic. Our current strategies have not worked and may even have made things worse. Of this there is no real
debate, beside the philosophical one. We have wasted billions of dollars, spent on another "War" with out end or exit strategy. It will take great
political integrety and courage to do what is really needed to appropriatly address this important public policy issue. It is very sad to me that we
have made choices to squander our wealth in this way, could have funded universal health care and inexpensive public education for all with that
money.
Maybe that TV is the most powerful drug of all. The Media is the Message. Our attention span has shrunk and our choices are based upon gut reactions,
"I like it" or "I don't like it", TV images bypass our intellect and go directly to the emotional centers where we process on the level of the
reptile. Safe/Not Safe, Good/Bad, Pleasure/Pain. Looks good/ Does not look good. Really primitive thinking now in the USofA.
There are real horror stories of people who have ruined their lives and the lives of others because of their addiction to drugs. There are real horror
stories of people whose lives have been ruined by the "War on Drugs". Neither of these ad hominum arguments aught to dictate something as complex as
our national drug policy. It is however those sentiments that seem to have captured our national dialogue and it is very hard to get beyond it to
develop strategies based on research and the very real data that we now posess.
Thanks again Nomads for such an illuminating dialogue.
Iflyfish
p.s. We are fortunate here in Oregon to have a legal Medical Marijuana law that allows this drug to be used by patients for pain management. I have
visited a clinic and saw first hand the pain and suffering of those who need this drug for their suffering. With out access to traditional medical
care for pain control this law is a godsend for those who can not afford or don't qualify for private medical insurance or for those who the
traditional pain medications do not work.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Maybe that TV is the most powerful drug of all.
Thanks again Nomads for such an illuminating dialogue.
Iflyfish
p.s. We are fortunate here in Oregon to have a legal Medical Marijuana law that allows this drug to be used by patients for pain management. I have
visited a clinic and saw first hand the pain and suffering of those who need this drug for their suffering. With out access to traditional medical
care for pain control this law is a godsend for those who can not afford or don't qualify for private medical insurance or for those who the
traditional pain medications do not work. |
California also has the "Compassionate Use Act" which has helped thousands of very sick people reduce the suffering of their ailments.
CaboRon
z
[Edited on 9-10-2007 by CaboRon]
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BajaBruno
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Cigarette addiction is a perfect contrast to the theme of this thread.
According to Gallup data, since 1944 the highest rate of cigarette use among adults has been 45% in about 1957. The current rate is 21%, an amazing
decline for a highly addictive substance that is still legally obtainable.
Hook is absolutely correct that the entire drop was due to education. Cigarettes have always been available and legal to any adult. Anti-smoking
laws only target "where" one can smoke, not whether they could smoke. No one has ever been put in jail for smoking in their own home.
Education and societal pressure--pressure based on education--is what accounts for this drop. Nothing else makes sense.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
I'm old enough to remember when teachers used to "educate" with a paddle.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
if we can go from a country with 80% cigarette smokers to one with less than 20% smokers in 50 years, we can convince people that drugs are not the
answer, too. Most of that drop was from education.
|
80%? This is documented? Never would have thought it was that high.
I would argue that much of the reduction is due to a combination of anti-smoking laws and intimidation. But...how would you go prove it? |
I cant say where I got this 80% figure that has stuck in my mind but I believe it is one that the Natl Cancer Institute or the Lung Association
attributes to smoking rates in the late 40s and early 50s, before research began on the effects of smoking cigarettes.
Has someone determined empirically as to why the drop has occurred? None that I can remember offhand. Certainly the knowledge and personal experiences
of lung cancer in many families is a contributor. I would argue that that's a form of education, too. You learn, rather graphically, that smoking is
bad.
Of course, those that died learned the lesson the hard way.........
At this point, the incredible level of taxation on cigarettes has to be considered a non-educational deterrent. I believe cigs are about 5.00/pack in
some states........that's 150.00/month for the pack-a-day smoker. Then, there's what their health insurance charges them for continued coverage.
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Martyman
Super Nomad
Posts: 1904
Registered: 9-10-2004
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Give me a break!! You can get a mari-med card if you tell a doctor that you can't sleep and pay him $75. I know others really need it but the
majority of people getting cards are stoners that don't want to get busted
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Martyman
Give me a break!! You can get a mari-med card if you tell a doctor that you can't sleep and pay him $75. I know others really need it but the
majority of people getting cards are stoners that don't want to get busted |
So, you are a Medical Doctor liscensed in California ?
How dare you.... I see really sick people every week
...... the medical cannabis is the ONLY thing keeping some of these people alive and able to function in some llimited capacity.
You seem like a very judgemental person.....
And even so, I sincerely hope that marijuana is available to you if you ever have to endure chemotherapy or cronic unending pain.
When will the persecution and judgement stop.?
Have a little compassion,
CaboRon
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Once I made the decision, I quit cold turkey, never ever having another cig (or cigar) to this day. |
YES!!
There are decisions and decisions. I suspect that most folks who "quit" smoking, really haven't committed to that decision. Congratulations-- you
have any insight as to why you were (uncommonly) able to do that?
--Larry |
I had quit smoking many times before.
It wasn't until my doctor explained that in order for the quit to take I would have to make an agreement with myself.
That pledge was that I would NEVER be able to take nicotine again.... No taper off.... No substituting another form of nicotine..... Completely
cease smoking...... no just " one a day.".. or " I just had two today."... all of the rationalization had to stop completely.
Many times I have been tempted (I don't think the desire ever stops completely) but have remembered the doctor's admonition......
I am quite frankly afraid that exposure to this deadly smoke will suck me right back in..... and that would be a sad day.
- CaboRon
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Martyman
Super Nomad
Posts: 1904
Registered: 9-10-2004
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Cabo Ron
I'm judgemental?? Read my post again. I think you are the judgemental one. To repeat I said "There are otheres who need it"
You really don't know much about stoner culture so don't comment on it. Are you a liscensed (sic) stoner? Most doctors I know can at least spell.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Martyman
Cabo Ron
I'm judgemental?? Read my post again. I think you are the judgemental one. To repeat I said "There are otheres who need it"
You really don't know much about stoner culture so don't comment on it. Are you a liscensed (sic) stoner? Most doctors I know can at least spell.
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I am not a doctor and neither are you !!!!
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Martyman wrote:
"Give me a break!! You can get a mari-med card if you tell a doctor that you can't sleep and pay him $75. I know others really need it but the
majority of people getting cards are stoners that don't want to get busted"
It is good to hear that it is that easy where you come from. Here it requires an extensive review of medical records and the cost are much lower where
you are. I am pleased to hear that people can get cards for insomnia. I understand that it is effective for this condition. No one in the waiting room
while I was there was there for insomnia. Most were there because they had very bad disc surgeries or cancer. I suspect that Marijuana would be much
less dangerous than Ambien, the drug that puts you to sleep and then lets you drive your car!
I am also pleased that "stoners, who don't want to get busted are able to obtain immunity from this very dangerous "War on Drugs". They may be able to
use their drug of choice and not end up losing their jobs, homes and posessions. I would hope that more "stoners could do that and save us the cost of
incarcerating them. In fact I would hope that anyone could obtain such a license to use and then taxt the crap out of it as we do with tobacco and
alcohol. We all would win in that scenario, adios drug cartels!, adios confiscation of cars, homes, imprisonment, adios people having to steal for
their drugs. Hello people raising their own plants, giving it to friends, welcome open and honest discussion of use and abuse, welcome revenue for
education, prevention, and treatment for people who are having problems with it!
Thanks for the info. Maybe the issueing of licenses, like driving privilages is the way to go. It seems so easy as you describe the process.
Ilfyfish
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