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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BMG
| Quote: | Originally posted by camador
Bad news for Loreto people, now TSD Loreto Partners announced the Loreto's golf course will be closed permanently, that plus the Inn at Loreto Bay and
Loreto Bay issues left about 700 workers unemployeed, here the source http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/11/el-campo-de-golf-de-... |
I would have to assume that the golf
course will no longer be watered. With all the natural vegetation torn out to plant grass, what happens now? Isn't it going to turn into an 18 hole
dust bowl? |
there is nothing ecologically sustainable about grass in the desert. the whole idea of an eco-friendly golf resort was a farce, and only fools could
have bought into the promotion.
here is an ecologicallly friendly solution for you golfers: place astroturf over the the greens and let the fairways return to dirt/cactus -- and we
will have an ecologically sustainable gold course.
the community should have required the developer to post a bond so there could be money to erase the blight that develops after they go bankrupt.
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Pollen
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There is an interesting post by a Mike R______ on that StarkSilvercreek site:
"
As one of the hundreds of former employees of LBC it pains me to see the project grind to a halt. But it is not particularly surprising. In my opinion
LBC was grossly mismanaged by a cadre of alpha males incapable of cooperation with one another. Each department leader worked to achieve his own ends
but those ends were not defined with the best interests of the project in mind. Also with so many departments and divisions the company developed the
“team island” phenomenon. This is where a team functions well internally, but operates at odds with the other “teams” in play. LBC was a textbook
example of this and many other organizational dysfunctions. Lack of cultural sensitivity must qualify as one of these dysfunctions.
I must agree with Alfonso about “Teflon” Toubman. I think that guy makes Machiavelli look like an amateur. Almost universally loathed within the
company when I worked there he remains, somehow slipping like a ghost from one portfolio to another, always ready to cast blame with his pink slip in
hand, yet curiously taking no responsibility himself for the project’s success (or lack thereof). When I was there he was Director of Operations -
Mexico and the project was in freefall, bleeding from innumerable wounds, many of them the result of BAD communications and a disconnect between the
employees and management. Coincidence?
When I first arrived in Loreto Bay my first thought was, “Where are all the hippies?” I affectionately refer to “green-minded and green-living”
individuals of all backgrounds. The kind that work more for the project than the profits. Instead I found a bunch of slick corporate types who gave
lip-service to sustainability and integration in Mexican culture. Sales girls with boob-jobs, miniskirts and manicures. Hardly the back-to-the-land,
hardworking green idealists I had hoped to find….
The truth is that sustainability involves having less, not more, but that has traditionally been a
tough message to sell. We were told we could have it all and save the planet, but that is a greenwash.
The project can be salvaged but it is going to need leaders who have the respect of the employees and homeowners. And that involves rolling up the
sleeves, working hard for a modest income and leading by example, not by authority.
I have probably said too much already! Reading and writing this has made me reflect on the working relationships and friendships I had, and how much
they meant to me. I am angry that so many quality people were hired, just to be fired as a scapegoat to managements ineptitude. i am angry that so
many well-intentioned homeowners were lied to, led along or may have suffered financially. I am angry that so much money went to highly-paid
consultants instead of hard-working craftspeople. I am angry that such a great vision came to such an ignominious end. And I am angry that in my time
there I was unable to rectify some of these issues… the powerless limbo of middle management being what it is….
Thanks for hearing my rant!
Best luck to all and to Loreto in general"
I have to agree with his point and mtgoat- How do you expect a self-sustaining ecoproject to have not only a golf course, but a marina. I would
think those would be your first clue that the "Eco" part of this project was just a marketing ploy. There are many ways to make low-impact
eco-friendly communities, and they generally seek to mimic local terrain/flora in keeping with the climate, rather than trying to change it.
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bajabeachbabe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pollen
I have to agree with his point and mtgoat- How do you expect a self-sustaining ecoproject to have not only a golf course, but a marina. I would
think those would be your first clue that the "Eco" part of this project was just a marketing ploy. There are many ways to make low-impact
eco-friendly communities, and they generally seek to mimic local terrain/flora in keeping with the climate, rather than trying to change it.
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LB has a golf course, but no marina.
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tehag
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LB
Been trying to leave this thread alone, but some posters insist on piping up when they know bloody nothing about what's actually on on the ground down
here.
The Nopolo golf course was in full operation for ten years before there was even such a thing as Loreto Bay.
As for sustainability, don't confuse that with ecological friendliness. Palm Springs California is a desert with a large number of courses, some of
which have a half century of continuous use. They are obviously sustainable. At whose expense is another matter.
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Pollen
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Yeah, but the glossy brochures certainly intimated that there would be a marina.
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wilderone
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Palm Springs isn't on the border of a National Marine Park, with marine/ coastal ecology, watered by a diminishing aquifer, set on what used to be one
of the most beautiful of Baja CA bays.
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BMG
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tehag
Been trying to leave this thread alone, but some posters insist on piping up when they know bloody nothing about what's actually on on the ground down
here.
The Nopolo golf course was in full operation for ten years before there was even such a thing as Loreto Bay. |
I'm confused. Are you saying that the golf course will continue to be maintained?
"TSD Loreto Partners announced the Loreto's golf course will be closed permanently."
I think the world is run by C- students.
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tehag
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LB
The point I thought I was making earlier was that sustainability is not a synonym for environmentally friendly or responsible. It simply means that
the subject system can continue to operate without alteration or additional input.
The artificial lakes on the course are entirely of reclaimed water, and they are the source of all water used for irrigation. The impact on the water
table by the course is negligible. The water has already been used and disposed of by the community at large.
The course is being mowed and watered at present. That cannot last long without an owner/operator. I have heard it will end on the 19th. If it is to
be liquidated it would be worth a lot more green than tan. As someone already said here, the soil as prepared for grass planting is unsuitable for
most native vegetation. If the watering stops there will soon be 67 acres of dust extending for some time into the future. Not a great sales tool for
the area.
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camador
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Troubles go on for Loreto Bay, The Director of Loreto TSD Partners Mauritius Pons, acknowledged that Loreto Bay, has a debt of just over $ 160
million, in addition to asserting that there are no sufficient resources to meet them, so progress that if within a period not longer than 45 days,
once the process of liquidation, there is no buyer for the project, definitely stop debt ...
http://www.radarpolitico.com/2009/06/12/adeuda-loreto-bay-16...
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tigerdog
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Does anyone know anything about the progress (or lack thereof) on that big development the Villa Group is working on at Ensenada Blanca? Is
construction going on there, or is that project on hold (I hope)? Are the timeshare guys still in town yanking anyone who's breathing off the street
for a presentation?
\"You know Hobbes, sometimes even my lucky rocket-ship underpants don\'t help.\" - Calvin, from Calvin and Hobbes
Visit me at Rocky Point Tides
http://rptides.blogspot.com/ |
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bajabeachbabe
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Villa Group Project
The Villa Group project is going forward. Some of the delays are due to the amount of work involved in getting the environmental permits. The
environmental engineer we are using for our building project is working on the Villa Group project. He told us they needed to inventory over 40,000
plants for the submission. 
When we were in Loreto in late March, the timeshare people were still out in force, but they didn't seem to be as aggressive as in prior visits.
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Martyman
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I tried to play the course with my two boys and Mother in law. They were going to charge us $350 usd to play and rent clubs. We walked. What do/did
you local guys pay to play?
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabeachbabe
The Villa Group project is going forward. |
Oh, heck. All projects in Mexico are going forward...right up until the time they stop. You find out about the stop when the doors are locked and the
lights are out.
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bajabeachbabe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabeachbabe
The Villa Group project is going forward. |
Oh, heck. All projects in Mexico are going forward...right up until the time they stop. You find out about the stop when the doors are locked and the
lights are out. |
In this case Villa Group is very well funded and has successfully completed this type of project in Cabo and PV many times. Their vacation club has
70,000 members. If you are expecting (hoping) them to fail, I think you will be disappointed. I really don't like the idea of the big mega resort at
Ensenada Blanca, but if anyone can pull it off, they can.
Actually, the fact that they are building both at Ensenada Blanca and a hotel directly in town (which will be completed this year), might be the only
salvation for poor Loreto. Maybe they will be able to utilize all those displaced workers from the Loreto Bay project. There will be a total of 700
people out of work within the next few days. Villa Group might be their only hope for work in town.
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aldosalato
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posted by aldosalato on 5-16-2004 at 02:47 AM
scam
This kind of project looks more like a scam to get a lot of money through loans out of banks. Many projects like this have failed in Baja in the past
but have replenished crooks developers in the past. For sure it is doomed to fail as numbers do NOT add up.
Well we went a long way from 2004......... and now the loss is on the book of Citibank..... (owned by the American taxpayer...and ultimately by
Chinese bondholder....)
[Edited on 6-13-2009 by aldosalato]
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capt. mike
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anybody know what's happening with the big JW Marriot condo project www.liveloreto.com
it was supposed to go this year....fat chance??
another project being run by a Snottsdale AZ firm.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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longhairedbeatnik
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The golf course was in use for years before the Loreto Bay gang showed up.
The Mexicans took a great Greg Norman designed track and through lousy maintenance and no oversight ruined a great course. Driving range balls got
misplaced and trying to buy golf tees and sleeves of balls was impossible.The scorecards were photocopied and laughable.
We were often quoted several prices for playing on the same day in our group and the carts were never maintained. Just another example of how this
town will never recover from this latest land scam.
You never get a second chance for a good first impression.
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capt. mike
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Marriot's deal....
well they are offered at only $700,000......
and they state they have "careful community planning" . is that like sustainable developemnt?? 
nothing much on the blog after feb 2009. seems to have died, ditto on twitter.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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bill erhardt
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poor Loreto.....
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabeachbabe
Actually, the fact that they are building both at Ensenada Blanca and a hotel directly in town (which will be completed this year), might be the only
salvation for poor Loreto. |
"Poor Loreto"? Loreto was doing just fine before the boondoggles at Puerto Escondido, Loreto Bay, and Ensendada Blanca came along to fleece the
gullible and line the pockets of impeccably credentialed "developers" from the north, and will continue to do fine after the remains these and future
such projects have receded into the Baja dust.
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backninedan
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Well said Bill, the only thing we stand to lose are time share sharks.
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