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Sweetwater
Senior Nomad
Posts: 915
Registered: 11-26-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilly today hot tomale
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I spent the first 7 years of my life in Del Mar, CA (1957-1964). Our home was on the beach... the most northern home in Del Mar, in fact. I think our
home address was 3010 Sandy Lane. After we moved away, the old beach house was replaced by a giant stucco thing (I think my mom called it). Lot's of
fun memories living on the beach...
Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz spent their summers in our home (we moved out for 3 months each summer to rent it to them). It was a deal that the
previous owners had made with them and my parents continued it until 'Lucy' and 'Ricky' divorced... and then rented to Desi one more summer after.
Here is the point of this history... Sandy Lane was only a few feet higher than high tide when I lived there and over 50 years later, it STILL is a
few feet higher. The San Dieguito River meets the sea just north of our old house spot. The horses from the Del Mar race track (just on the other side
of 101 and the train tracks, used to be walked in the sea water there.
I mention a San Diego point of reference, which is a paved street and not getting higher like how sand bars moves.
Some of you like to discard my Baja observations of salt flats that get flooded by high lunar tides... 40 years ago.. and still do... IF the seal
levels were a threat... wouldn't they be flooded by all high tides, or underwater all the time, instead of just the lunar highs?
Have a nice day... the sky is not falling (yet)... and higher taxes do not change climate! |
And radiation pumped into the sea is not healthy for our biosphere according to all facts and knowledge that stands up to scrutiny....cause that's
really the topic and issue that you can not bring yourself to deal with.....
Or maybe you're still planning to relocate to Hiroshima or Nagasaki to prove that wrong.....better still, buy beachfront in ***ushima, I hear it's
much cheaper than SoCal....
Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Barry...the people that quote rising ocean waters, changing climate, and man altering pollution are quoting studies...Please do the same and quit
telling people to find there own citations. I would like to see reputable and factual studies that say this is not happening. |
Here is the second thing on the internet today in response to "Climate Change". There are many more.
Of course you find fault with all of them, because that is what you do, and we will get nowhere. I am not a scientist, so have to rely on those that
in the past have not led me astray. When I go to the actual studies, I haven't a clue what they are talking about, for the most part, but they sure
LOOK impressive, and use impressive words.
http://www.globalclimatescam.com/
Barry
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Barry...the people that quote rising ocean waters, changing climate, and man altering pollution are quoting studies...Please do the same and quit
telling people to find there own citations. I would like to see reputable and factual studies that say this is not happening. |
Here is the second thing on the internet today in response to "Climate Change". There are many more.
Of course you find fault with all of them, because that is what you do, and we will get nowhere. I am not a scientist, so have to rely on those that
in the past have not led me astray. When I go to the actual studies, I haven't a clue what they are talking about, for the most part, but they sure
LOOK impressive, and use impressive words.
http://www.globalclimatescam.com/
Barry |
Come on Barry.some actual data.. something we can say "yes Barry, that proves something". Because If
you don't have a clue what the studies are talking about.....Then you really don't know what you are relying on.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sweetwater
.....And radiation pumped into the sea is not healthy for our biosphere according to all facts and knowledge that stands up to scrutiny....cause
that's really the topic and issue that you can not bring yourself to deal with......... |
SW,
C'mon....it's all okay because they build popular trucks 
Don't believe everything you think....
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Barry...the people that quote rising ocean waters, changing climate, and man altering pollution are quoting studies...Please do the same and quit
telling people to find there own citations. I would like to see reputable and factual studies that say this is not happening. |
Here is the second thing on the internet today in response to "Climate Change". There are many more.
Of course you find fault with all of them, because that is what you do, and we will get nowhere. I am not a scientist, so have to rely on those that
in the past have not led me astray. When I go to the actual studies, I haven't a clue what they are talking about, for the most part, but they sure
LOOK impressive, and use impressive words.
http://www.globalclimatescam.com/
Barry |
Come on Barry.some actual data.. something we can say "yes Barry, that proves something". Because If
you don't have a clue what the studies are talking about.....Then you really don't know what you are relying on. |
So, if I understand you right, I am supposed to use the actual studies you refer to (which I don't understand one whit) to "back up" what I am
saying??? Yeah, that is really logical!! How in the devil am I supposed to know if they are right when I read them?? I can't!!! So, believe it or
not, I rely on trusted sources that DO understand these studies to tell me what they may, or may not, mean. How novel of me.
You are just throwing obstacles off the top of your head out there, it seems to me. You are not going to believe anything unless it fits your
preconceived ideas, unless you yourself are a climate scientist. I have taken a full year course in Climatology, and semester course in Meteorology,
but I still don't have the background & expertise to interpret or understand these "studies" you refer to, and I have serious doubts about you
understanding them too..
We are wasting each other's time, it would appear. Nobody knows FOR SURE what is happening.
Barry
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
So, believe it or not, I rely on trusted sources that DO understand these studies to tell me what they may, or may not, mean. How novel of me.
Barry |
Would you trust the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the many people speaking in this video? And if not, why not?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nZjrPoAlbU
http://www.aaas.org/
[Edited on 6-3-2014 by SFandH]
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Barry...the people that quote rising ocean waters, changing climate, and man altering pollution are quoting studies...Please do the same and quit
telling people to find there own citations. I would like to see reputable and factual studies that say this is not happening. |
Here is the second thing on the internet today in response to "Climate Change". There are many more.
Of course you find fault with all of them, because that is what you do, and we will get nowhere. I am not a scientist, so have to rely on those that
in the past have not led me astray. When I go to the actual studies, I haven't a clue what they are talking about, for the most part, but they sure
LOOK impressive, and use impressive words.
http://www.globalclimatescam.com/
Barry |
Come on Barry.some actual data.. something we can say "yes Barry, that proves something". Because If
you don't have a clue what the studies are talking about.....Then you really don't know what you are relying on. |
So, if I understand you right, I am supposed to use the actual studies you refer to (which I don't understand one whit) to "back up" what I am
saying??? Yeah, that is really logical!! How in the devil am I supposed to know if they are right when I read them?? I can't!!! So, believe it or
not, I rely on trusted sources that DO understand these studies to tell me what they may, or may not, mean. How novel of me.
You are just throwing obstacles off the top of your head out there, it seems to me. You are not going to believe anything unless it fits your
preconceived ideas, unless you yourself are a climate scientist. I have taken a full year course in Climatology, and semester course in Meteorology,
but I still don't have the background & expertise to interpret or understand these "studies" you refer to, and I have serious doubts about you
understanding them too..
We are wasting each other's time, it would appear. Nobody knows FOR SURE what is happening.
Barry |
Barry, come up with your own studies that support your conclusions if you do not like anyone elses studies. I am sure your "studies" included some
factual data.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
So, believe it or not, I rely on trusted sources that DO understand these studies to tell me what they may, or may not, mean. How novel of me.
Barry |
Would you trust the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the many people speaking in this video? And if not, why not?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nZjrPoAlbU
http://www.aaas.org/
[Edited on 6-3-2014 by SFandH] |
I watched the video, and went to the other link--------I learned nothing new-----------I and my Family have been doing ALL the things that they
mention that individuals can do for at least 50 years--------My Family were all Sierra Clubber's for years and years (but no more), and I was exposed
to all this in the 30 years I was in the National Park Service and the Bureau of Land Management.
Climate Change is a fact, and I have never doubted that. Global warming may be a fact, but it is too early to tell for sure in our
lifetime-----probably will never know for sure as it's just too complex, and can change suddenly with certain catalyst in either direction, or drag on
for millions of years with tiny changes.
I don't know any of the people in these videos, but some of what they say is misleading, such as we can do things fairly cheaply that may reverse this
trend--------what are they talking about? What is being proposed by many is so expensive that NO COUNTRY can accomplish them without devastating
their economies. I am very skeptical, as I have said, that we can do anything about Climate Change, but I am doing my part and have always been
doing same, but not for the reasons these folks want me to-------I do it to save money, act conservatively, reduce our individual impact &
consumption on resources, and try to clean up the environment, or at least not harm it any more than is absolutely practical. That's my contribution,
and my Families too.
Traditionally, thru the many years, most "scientific" gloom and doomer's and the optimists have been very wrong, about a LOT of things.
I remain skeptical.
Barry
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
So, if I understand you right, I am supposed to use the actual studies you refer to (which I don't understand one whit) to "back up" what I am
saying??? Yeah, that is really logical!! How in the devil am I supposed to know if they are right when I read them?? I can't!!! So, believe it or
not, I rely on trusted sources that DO understand these studies to tell me what they may, or may not, mean. How novel of me.
..
..
..
..
We are wasting each other's time, it would appear. Nobody knows FOR SURE what is happening.
Barry |
Other than what you have dotted out, which is actually hypocritical, I really agree with this.
The truth is we here are babes in the woods when it comes to this subject. Global warming is not unfathomable with scientists inventing conclusions
for their own agenda. That's just too cynical. Rather, due to our ignorance we wouldn't know good conclusions from bad. We spend pages talking about
past geological events that supposedly prove something. We show graphs how the arctic ice cap grew last year for 6 months and decide it shows
something conclusive. We talk about more vegetation to combat the co2 release. Gnukid comes out with more complex charts and reasons but he's clearly
cherry picking on the internet.
You say that you don't believe scientists because they have their own agenda. Then what do you believe? Do you believe in driving a car, flying to
baja, using a boat for fishing? Where did that come from? Do you have PSA screening tests? How did you make the choice to believe some and not the
other?
When I fell ill I didn't come to my own conclusions about what I had. I went to the best specialists at UCSF and Stanford for THEM to provide me with
their professional opinion based upon years of practice and knowledge. I got 2nd and 3rd opinions on treatment until there was a consensus. Why should
the approach to global warming be any different.
So go to the experts. Sure there is not 100% agreement but 97% is good enough for me. There will always be some disagreement. I had a biology prof at
SF State U who didn't believe in evolution. That was 100 years after Darwin, not 15 years as in global warming. And that was at a major university.
So, I agree, the studies are hyroglyphics to me. The pro glogal people and an anti global scientists both sound convincing when read. That's due to my
ignorance, and I can accept that.
On a personal level I have seen enough retreating glaciers to know that something big is going on. I've seen glaciers that have retreated not feet but
miles in my lifetime. And I'm accepting the experts that the industrial age is largely responsible for it.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Some years the glaciers shrink and some they get bigger... so what is new and different here? What happens in our tiny time on this planet is in no
way an accurate measure of what is 'normal', even if there is such a thing.
Some of us want to believe people are bad and foreign here, and some of us know that people are as natural a part of this planet as orcas and puffins.
Either way, the earth will continue to cool or warm, as it has for millions of years before man and will after man.
What is it that you want to argue about, and why?... To what end? Does it make us better friends or kinder Nomads? Is it not enough to just post news
and ponder the possibilities?
There are no absolutes in natural science. Science is the continuous gathering of data by observation. In my lifetime, I have observed sea levels at
many places over a period of 40-50 years. The levels are unchanged or so tiny as to not be noticeable when compared to the daily changes caused by
tidal action. There is no cause for panic.
We can adapt to the small changes in climate, or not... Just don't ask your neighbors to foot the bill if you agree with an ex-politician turned
environmentalist who still flies on private jets and has mansions with heating and air conditioning bills that would take a dozen or more typical
homes to equal.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
We can adapt to the small changes in climate, or not... Just don't ask your neighbors to foot the bill if you agree with an ex-politician turned
environmentalist who still flies on private jets and has mansions with heating and air conditioning bills that would take a dozen or more typical
homes to equal. |
Why can't environmentalists enjoy luxuries? Dk, do you think environmentalists should be ascetics or take vows of poverty and minimalism?
Thank god liberals that fight for all to have freedom to live how we want to live, and fight against the conservatives that want to dictate our means
of travel, house size and whether we are allowed heat or AC in our homes!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
So, if I understand you right, I am supposed to use the actual studies you refer to (which I don't understand one whit) to "back up" what I am
saying??? Yeah, that is really logical!! How in the devil am I supposed to know if they are right when I read them?? I can't!!! So, believe it or
not, I rely on trusted sources that DO understand these studies to tell me what they may, or may not, mean. How novel of me.
..
..
..
..
We are wasting each other's time, it would appear. Nobody knows FOR SURE what is happening.
Barry |
Other than what you have dotted out, which is actually hypocritical, I really agree with this.
The truth is we here are babes in the woods when it comes to this subject. Global warming is not unfathomable with scientists inventing conclusions
for their own agenda. That's just too cynical. Rather, due to our ignorance we wouldn't know good conclusions from bad. We spend pages talking about
past geological events that supposedly prove something. We show graphs how the arctic ice cap grew last year for 6 months and decide it shows
something conclusive. We talk about more vegetation to combat the co2 release. Gnukid comes out with more complex charts and reasons but he's clearly
cherry picking on the internet.
You say that you don't believe scientists because they have their own agenda. Then what do you believe? Do you believe in driving a car, flying to
baja, using a boat for fishing? Where did that come from? Do you have PSA screening tests? How did you make the choice to believe some and not the
other?
When I fell ill I didn't come to my own conclusions about what I had. I went to the best specialists at UCSF and Stanford for THEM to provide me with
their professional opinion based upon years of practice and knowledge. I got 2nd and 3rd opinions on treatment until there was a consensus. Why should
the approach to global warming be any different.
So go to the experts. Sure there is not 100% agreement but 97% is good enough for me. There will always be some disagreement. I had a biology prof at
SF State U who didn't believe in evolution. That was 100 years after Darwin, not 15 years as in global warming. And that was at a major university.
So, I agree, the studies are hyroglyphics to me. The pro glogal people and an anti global scientists both sound convincing when read. That's due to my
ignorance, and I can accept that.
On a personal level I have seen enough retreating glaciers to know that something big is going on. I've seen glaciers that have retreated not feet but
miles in my lifetime. And I'm accepting the experts that the industrial age is largely responsible for it. |
SkipJack------I did not "dot out" anything----don't know how that happened. And yes, I am definitely a hypocrite.
You are being way to black & white when you describe me--------of course I believe (skeptically) some of what Scientists discover and ponder and
write about, but I don't assume "truth" 100% on face value, but I do act on much of what I hear and read. You mention "Doctor's"-------don't get me
started---------I ALWAYS believe ME first, but yes, I do check with Specialists when I don't know what to do about a health problem. 8 out of 10
times (roughly) I am more right about MY HEALTH than the Doctor's are, and it has been that way all my life. The latest example of Doctor fallibility
is my GP putting me on Blood Pressure meds and arthritis meds, my opthamologist putting me on Glaucoma meds, and then having serious allergic
reactions to something (??) which I never had before, and then having my Allergist conduct tests and telling me to QUIT all those meds completely and
viola, the allergies went away, and I feel 100% better. I did resume the Glaucoma meds to see if I was ok with them, and I seem to be, but I am thru
with all the other meds, period. My point being that even Specialists are not always right, so I am skeptical. After 20 different skin-cancer
operations (for all 3 kinds) in 25 years I DO pay attention to my Dermatologist, and see her every 3 months like clock work!!!
As I have said many times on this board, I am NOT saying that Global warming/climate change is not happening, I AM saying over and over again that I
am not convinced that man is causing it, and even if he is I don't think we can economically do much (if anything) about it on a World wide basis. So
until we are 99% sure that man is the culprit, and in survival mode, I am NOT in favor of taking all the proposed draconian measures to supposedly
help the situation, and largely destroy the world economy in the process.
Just my opinion, of course. In the mean time I will do what I can personally to reduce my footprint.
Barry
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
So, believe it or not, I rely on trusted sources that DO understand these studies to tell me what they may, or may not, mean. How novel of me.
Barry |
Would you trust the American Association for the Advancement of Science and the many people speaking in this video? And if not, why not?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nZjrPoAlbU
http://www.aaas.org/
[Edited on 6-3-2014 by SFandH] |
I watched the video, and went to the other link--------I learned nothing new-----------I and my Family have been doing ALL the things that they
mention that individuals can do for at least 50 years--------My Family were all Sierra Clubber's for years and years (but no more), and I was exposed
to all this in the 30 years I was in the National Park Service and the Bureau of Land Management.
Climate Change is a fact, and I have never doubted that. Global warming may be a fact, but it is too early to tell for sure in our
lifetime-----probably will never know for sure as it's just too complex, and can change suddenly with certain catalyst in either direction, or drag on
for millions of years with tiny changes.
I don't know any of the people in these videos, but some of what they say is misleading, such as we can do things fairly cheaply that may reverse this
trend--------what are they talking about? What is being proposed by many is so expensive that NO COUNTRY can accomplish them without devastating
their economies. I am very skeptical, as I have said, that we can do anything about Climate Change, but I am doing my part and have always been
doing same, but not for the reasons these folks want me to-------I do it to save money, act conservatively, reduce our individual impact &
consumption on resources, and try to clean up the environment, or at least not harm it any more than is absolutely practical. That's my contribution,
and my Families too.
Traditionally, thru the many years, most "scientific" gloom and doomer's and the optimists have been very wrong, about a LOT of things.
I remain skeptical.
Barry |
I remain skeptical too though I'm sure we are having some effect----we're pouring a LOT of CO2 into the atmosphere. I'm putting solar panels on the
roof, just in case.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Excellent, Mexitron.
I would do your research carefully, however, before you commit. My Brother-in-law went with Solar several years ago, spent a LOT of money, and they
never seemed to work right no matter how much the Techs tried to make them work, so he has now reverted back to traditional sources and abandoned the
solar panels--------(they just sit there now----disconnected).
On the other hand, I have heard many good reports, so things are probably much better now.
barry
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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BajaGringo--------------Define "better world" please.
Shall we stop travelling by air and oil-powered vehicles (example)-----that would help immensely-----are you ready to do that? Is the world ready
to do that?
Realistically, I don't think so.
Barry
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
BajaGringo--------------Define "better world" please.
Shall we stop travelling by air and oil-powered vehicles (example)-----that would help immensely-----are you ready to do that? Is the world ready
to do that?
Realistically, I don't think so.
Barry |
We can use hydrogen as a fuel carrier for cars....and if Elon Musk would just deliver a better scenario for the hyperloop that would take care of a
lot of air travel within the US.
On solar---Solar City and others will install them for free---they're making money off it so they have to work!
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
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Seen that one before---love it!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
BajaGringo--------------Define "better world" please.
Shall we stop travelling by air and oil-powered vehicles (example)-----that would help immensely-----are you ready to do that? Is the world ready
to do that?
Realistically, I don't think so.
Barry |
We can use hydrogen as a fuel carrier for cars....and if Elon Musk would just deliver a better scenario for the hyperloop that would take care of a
lot of air travel within the US.
On solar---Solar City and others will install them for free---they're making money off it so they have to work! |
I was not aware of either-------hydrogen as a viable safe fuel, or Elon Musk and "hyperloop". I will look into those.
Also, good news on the solar installs-------not aware of that, either.
Thanks, Mexitron.
Barry
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
BajaGringo--------------Define "better world" please.
Shall we stop travelling by air and oil-powered vehicles (example)-----that would help immensely-----are you ready to do that? Is the world ready
to do that?
Realistically, I don't think so.
Barry |
Really Barry? Why is it that so many from the right insist on going to the other extreme when discussing these issues? Who here is proposing that we
completely abandon petroleum based fuels tomorrow? What we are asking for is to consider spending more on alternative energy ideas in search of a
better balance for the planet. Just with the trillions we have spent on Iraq, Afghanistan and the future long term care for those who have returned
injured from these wars, we could have installed solar panels on every rooftop in America and have lots of money left over for reinvestment into
education and other new technologies.
Could you imagine what that would have done to offset our need for imported oil???
Instead, we follow politicians (bought and paid for) who insist on throwing trillions down black holes of wars and corporate/banking bailouts.
I agree with you Barry that spending is out of control but the right simply refuses to give up their sacred cows in the annual budget battles and the
left doesn't do much better. But at least I like the reinvestment ideas from the left that puts more money in more pockets of the middle class. The
right prefers to spend it on wars, tax deductions for those who don't need it and both sides voted to bailout the richest of the rich. Where is the
bailout for the middle class? At least let's consider spending more on something that will benefit EVERYBODY - saving on energy in an eco-friendly
way.
In the meantime, America is falling further and further behind...
Mexico keeps leading the green revolution...
[Edited on 6-4-2014 by BajaGringo]
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