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baja1943
Banned
Posts: 686
Registered: 5-10-2011
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Here we go again! The bum is getting ready for mucho face time.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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If you thought the turtle thread was fun, just stick around, this one should get really interesting.
Unless the goofballs on the beach were licensed and registered, they are not allowed to carry guns.
Oh yeah, I am going to take a can of pepper spray and try to overcome a guy with a loaded gun.
What exactly is the point of bringing in a bunch of armed goons to protect a hotel that is falling apart and collapsing on the beach?
I have heard of having a dispute with your neighbors, but this one is is really stupid.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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HOLY SH-t
Hola, that is a real life night mare...wishing you folks the best !! and any more info,like how this got started in the first place,,would be
useful........ K & T 
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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The hotel? Attempted to rent a room there once. As far as I could tell there were no guests at the time, it was overpriced and poorly maintained.
Decided against spending the night there.
Mark and Olivia's cafe? Great place. Both Mark and Olivia are friendly and helpful. Good people in my opinion. Hope they throw the key away on the
thugs that have been harassing them.
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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Skipjack Joe
I do not want blood on my hands and I never will, but we will defend ourselves with all the legal force we need, I will not surrender my property to
crime or Olivia ambitions; this problem did not happen at the restaurant, it happened at the hotel grounds and think about that.
Of course if I were other people, they would have gone long ago; my problem is that I keep trying to act legally agains two narcs and crooks that bend
the law and buy authorities.
I belive that crooked authorities are Mexico's problem, the narcs are only the result of that corruption, their actions are what we see, but they are
allowed to act that way by crooked authorities.
When a crook is able to commit crime after crime after crime, he becomes bold and soon he even forget there are legal limits or authorities.
This last stand off happened on the hotel grounds and was caused by Olivia and Mark going IN TO MY PROPERTY where they are not wanted or allowed, they
attacked my security people with pepper spray guns inside my property and my people just reacted to their attack inside MY PROPERTY.
Please some of you explain to me me, what Olivia and Mark were doing IN MY PROPERTY during the night with peper spray guns on their hands???????
If you can explain that one, I will be happy to order my people not to deffend theirselves. And if you can condone that act, I have no hope of reason.
Lets say, that this time they were very fortunate that my people were able to diferentiate the spray guns from fire guns, or the story would have been
very different, but they are pushing their actions to places where they may get really hurt
My people did not killed them because they have my orders to think before they act, to act with restrain and only answer attacks with similar force
and only when they are physically attacked and this time that was the case. Then you have to recognize that I am acting inside the law and she does
not.
For every people who does not know, pepper guns are illegal in Mexico, they are considered chemical weapons and can be answered with force in kind.
If my people feel that their lives are in danger, they may deffend theirselves with all the legal force they feel they need. That is what Olivia and
Mark have to think next time.
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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Cypress
You may not like our services and you maylike what Olivia offer and smoke, but this is not a commercial dispute.
You feel that workers must be in jail becausde we deffended ourselves from a narc attack and that define your position and feelings toward legallity.
We will keep defending ourseves, just do not be in the middle or on the crooks side.
This time Oliovia and Mark were able to buy a local district attorney, who acted with power abuse and detained hotel workers and security people and
attorneys, but I about to demostrate that we live in a lawful country, where the laws are upheld at the end; my actual enemy are the crooked
authorities that perpetrated this helping illegally a nark and crook alredy with several covictions.
Let see who win this time, the law or the crook and this time it will be on National press.
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goldhuntress
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Posts: 663
Registered: 1-28-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
Hola, that is a real life night mare...wishing you folks the best !! and any more info,like how this got started in the first place,,would be
useful........ K & T |
I agree, it is a nightmare. I just hope no one gets hurt or worse. Who owns what on that beach? Very confusing if you don't know the history. I don't
like guns as intimidation and I don't like that someone would serve turtle soup either. I think when I go south I'll be driving right by this whole
situation!
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Things are often odd or confusing in life, but people should learn that things are exactly as they appear. There is no one but yourself to standup for
yourself when things go weird.
Obviously the thieves believe they are justified in their actions and there are people who agree.
These absurd actions of the invaders are often difficult for foreigners to understand since in other parts of the world the corrupt behavior is often
hidden, in corrupt contracts, while in Mexico it's often out in the open, in your face.
I have a great deal of respect for Mark and Olivia "cheers" for standing up for yourself to fight against corruption everywhere and also cheers for
those who went to visit and attempt to support such as Pompano.
There is clearly a crisis of morality throughout the world, each person is self-responsible to standup for themselves and their community for what's
right and to fight against corruption, no one will do it for you.
At this point, in addition to identifying the thieves, it's also worthwhile to point out those in the community who have sided with, promoted and
supported these thieves throughout this nonsense, that would be Whoosh, he has demonstrated very poor common sense in selecting counsel. To me, at
least, Whoosh's actions on this board are particularly idiotic and two faced or perhaps he is naive. Either way, an apology to the victims and to the
members here is due.
This is a good lesson to learn from. Criminals will take your land and possessions if you let them often with support of law. And worse, there are
people in our community naive enough to promote and support thieves who steal from good people.
Where-ever you are, we must stand up against thieves and corruption and not run, whether it be in the form of gun toting thieves, corrupt officials or
naive friends.
[Edited on 2-11-2012 by gnukid]
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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ramuma53, You don't know me. I don't know you. I don't smoke "anything". You're implications could be taken as an insult by some. I met Mark and
Olivia, liked 'em both. They're trying to make a living, running a cafe/bar. What do you doing for a living?
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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I can't really figure out what is going on. I also don't know the history here. Raphael's post and letter to the PGR says he has not been able to talk
to any of his people who were arrested, so he can't tell the whole story with certainty in his complaint, and he says so. He gives the land title
file numbers to some area of land at that location. The guns are legally registered, but in the letter Raphael does not seem to know the guns had
been fired.
From there the two versions are very different. Raphael says the police know drugs were being unloaded at the restaurant and this was an organized
crime operation. He claims by mistake the police seized his hotel and employees wrong are being wrongly held without charges.
Did I get that right?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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norte
Super Nomad
Posts: 1163
Registered: 10-8-2008
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| Quote: | Originally posted by goldhuntress
| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
Hola, that is a real life night mare...wishing you folks the best !! and any more info,like how this got started in the first place,,would be
useful........ K & T |
I agree, it is a nightmare. I just hope no one gets hurt or worse. Who owns what on that beach? Very confusing if you don't know the history. I don't
like guns as intimidation and I don't like that someone would serve turtle soup either. I think when I go south I'll be driving right by this whole
situation! |
Good call. All the tough guys are a long ways away safely tucked behind their computers
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
At this point, in addition to identifying the thieves, it's also worthwhile to point out those in the community who have sided with, promoted and
supported these thieves throughout this nonsense, that would be Whoosh, he has demonstrated very poor common sense in selecting counsel. To me, at
least, Whoosh's actions on this board are particularly idiotic and two faced or perhaps he is naive. Either way, an apology to the victims and to the
members here is due.
[Edited on 2-11-2012 by gnukid] |
You are calling me out for this? That's nuts this early in the investigation. All I am doing is seeking to understand the situation and players. I
don't know the history here and I have said so. Raphael (Ramuma53) has published the full text of his formal complaint to the PGR. I'll wait to see
the same from the other party, or what the media says, if they can sort it out (if they indeed covered his press conference yesterday).
[Edited on 2-11-2012 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Questions keep popping up and I have watched this whole "Telenovela" from the begining.
Why would you have to have hotel employees get a permit and arm themselves. Using guns against Pepper spray is like hunting elephants with a
slingshot, way too much overkill.
It is true that the first pics of Marc did show Olivia and the Canadian jumping off of the estuary bridge which would imply they were on one side
or the other. Guess that will be hard to ascertain.
From the looks of the hotel, they needed cement workers, window guys, painters, etc., etc., and not armed goons, but hey, the objective might not
be getting the hotel up and running.
Also, unless Marc's house in on Ramuna's property, why were they unloading and burning stuff on the beach.
Most of the charges filed against Marc and Olivia can be traced back to some influence and subterfuge from Ramuna. Until such time as he wanted
to take over the property, things were pretty peaceful there.
I really do not have an interest in this interaction at all and have read everything that has been presented by both sides and most of what has
been presented by Ramuna looks like a lot of fancy lawyer talk for trying to take over someone's property. Glad to see that there are at least some
checks and balances in the system less he take a fancy to my place too.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Questions keep popping up and I have watched this whole "Telenovela" from the begining.
Why would you have to have hotel employees get a permit and arm themselves. Using guns against Pepper spray is like hunting elephants with a
slingshot, way too much overkill.
It is true that the first pics of Marc did show Olivia and the Canadian jumping off of the estuary bridge which would imply they were on one side
or the other. Guess that will be hard to ascertain.
From the looks of the hotel, they needed cement workers, window guys, painters, etc., etc., and not armed goons, but hey, the objective might not
be getting the hotel up and running.
Also, unless Marc's house in on Ramuna's property, why were they unloading and burning stuff on the beach.
Most of the charges filed against Marc and Olivia can be traced back to some influence and subterfuge from Ramuna. Until such time as he wanted
to take over the property, things were pretty peaceful there.
I really do not have an interest in this interaction at all and have read everything that has been presented by both sides and most of what has
been presented by Ramuna looks like a lot of fancy lawyer talk for trying to take over someone's property. Glad to see that there are at least some
checks and balances in the system less he take a fancy to my place too. |
Thats the problem with the internet. It does apear the house was on the "other"property"
Mark's post (From google earth and a reviewof the photo It appears the house is on the other side of the Hotel)
"Picture of our new beach house. It was repossesed yesterday with 10 police with machine guns. A guy who was in the house was arrested after pulling
his pants down and shaking his pecker at me! His name is Fernando and for some reason he was always pulling his pants down and shaking his pud at me
with verbal insults. After the visual assalt of indecent exposure the cops arrested him with handcuffs and he went to jail for 48 hours. The jail is a
cement floor in Mulege with bars. Sometime I will take a picture to post it........it is a classic one room jail. You would not want to be there. The
future is looking better after a long legal battle. It is nice to be winners. Thanks to my good friends out there who believed in us."
Plus more posting....
"Well, it is better, there are three houses and we were just informed the P.O.S are leaving so we will get the hotel back and the other three houses.
What am I going to do now??? For all of you that do not know we have been in a Mexican land dispute fo almost ten years and we kept fighting. Would
not been able to fight the banditos without Olivia. She deserves the credit. Lucky for us we were young enough to fight."
Things aren't whatthe always seem to be
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Questions keep popping up and I have watched this whole "Telenovela" from the begining.
Why would you have to have hotel employees get a permit and arm themselves. Using guns against Pepper spray is like hunting elephants with a
slingshot, way too much overkill.
It is true that the first pics of Marc did show Olivia and the Canadian jumping off of the estuary bridge which would imply they were on one side
or the other. Guess that will be hard to ascertain.
From the looks of the hotel, they needed cement workers, window guys, painters, etc., etc., and not armed goons, but hey, the objective might not
be getting the hotel up and running.
I really do not have an interest in this interaction at all and have read everything that has been presented by both sides and most of what has
been presented by Ramuna looks like a lot of fancy lawyer talk for trying to take over someone's property. Glad to see that there are at least some
checks and balances in the system less he take a fancy to my place too. |
A fisherman tells it like it is.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Questions keep popping up and I have watched this whole "Telenovela" from the begining.
Why would you have to have hotel employees get a permit and arm themselves. Using guns against Pepper spray is like hunting elephants with a
slingshot, way too much overkill.
It is true that the first pics of Marc did show Olivia and the Canadian jumping off of the estuary bridge which would imply they were on one side
or the other. Guess that will be hard to ascertain.
From the looks of the hotel, they needed cement workers, window guys, painters, etc., etc., and not armed goons, but hey, the objective might not
be getting the hotel up and running.
I really do not have an interest in this interaction at all and have read everything that has been presented by both sides and most of what has
been presented by Ramuna looks like a lot of fancy lawyer talk for trying to take over someone's property. Glad to see that there are at least some
checks and balances in the system less he take a fancy to my place too. |
A fisherman tells it like it is. |
Yes, with incomplete info. He thought the house was on Mark and Olivia's property.
I really don't care either. It appears there is a lot more to this story though.
[Edited on 2-11-2012 by rts551]
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
All I am doing is seeking to understand the situation and players. |
Have you ever physically met any of
them?
Personally I have not; all of my impressions have been from their postings on this forum, and based on that input I've formed the opinions previously
posted. Given enough raw material (and the Turtle Thread provided plenty), I think that is reasonably reliable. |
well, thanks for taking a step back for now at least. As I have said, you can't know the whole truth of a legal case from a web thread. Especially
when the docs are in Spanish.
I do have some unanswered questions from what was posted and from the photos:
Raphael’s men where in Burbey’s house and ransacked/burned his personal stuff? That house is on the hotel side of the cove. Who has the legal title to
this home- Burbey or Raphael?
Burbey said they were on the bridge over the little arroyo that divides the two properties when they were shot at. Were they heading to the house and
were stopped by Rafael’s men? Why were they on the bridge to the other property at all?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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And what ever happened to the people (American couple) that built the house that Mark and Olivia took over? They lived there while Munoz controlled
the property.
According to an article in SudCalifornia ( http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2423483.htm ) the Agrarian court ordered the take over.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Ramuma:
Why would someone that's attacking you write SOS on their own property?
No, you're gonna have to go all the way if you want this property bad enough. Intimidation just won't work.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3507
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaNews
I had a can of bear pepper spray which I spayed onto the man with the shotgun. He started shooting wildly and 4-5 shots more happened.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
What is really known of what happened? People talk of pepper spray vs guns, but those guns weren't used, were they - except to intimidate. Seems to me
if there had been intention to do harm there would be bodies.
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The gunman was pepper sprayed. He started shooting wildly.
A bit more than intimidation happening here.
This guy was arrested? I'd sure be waiting for him to be released.
If Mark can qualify owning a gun, he needs to get one.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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