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BajaLuna
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great article....Thanks for sharing that, BajaGringo!
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MMc
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What does all this have to do with Mexico sending kids home?
Both sides are guilty! Old Ronnie was the last guy to do something at all. Bush 1, Clinton. Bush 2, and Obama, did not do a thing Both sides could
have pushed though reform in ether direction in that time. Both sides have controlled the both houses at one time or another. Obama ran the first time
preaching reform and had both houses to do it, but he passed because he had other portieres.
This is about power and staying in power nothing more. Right now the DMC is looking for the Latin vote The RNC is counting on keeping the base and the
hoping to get a push from the middle. The Latin vote is big and both sides would love to get it, however they are just tools being used by Washington
for it's own gain. This will fade off the news page right after the election. Anything that is in the news that's not world news is just one side or
the others spin for power.
Sorry Dennis I have a agenda too 
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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redmesa
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I have heard from my man in Mexico and they too are worried but the big but is they are taking care of the children.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
I have heard from my man in Mexico and they too are worried but the big but is they are taking care of the children. |
Who isn't taking care of the children, other than their own country?
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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MMc
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
I'm getting sick of this conversation. All I know for sure is that charity is a wonderful thing. It's comes from the deepest part of the heart, but
when charitable giving is forced upon people, it just becomes another form of tax.
Pardon me if I find that bothersome. |
You've made your point.
Here's a question.
The 3.7 billion Obama has requested amounts to one tenth of one percent of the 2013 US budget (3.8 trillion).
Too much?? |
To reduce to the ridiculous, the spending of 3.7 BILLION dollars is a statement on it's self.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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redmesa
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There is no way to stop global events. We should be ready because closing borders has never worked. EVER!
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Bajahowodd
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
From that bastion of left wing thinking, the Wall Street Journal...
WHAT REALLY DROVE THE CHILDREN NORTH
By Mary Anastasia O'Grady | The Wall Street Journal
Tuesday, July 29, 2014 at 1:00 pm
In a nation where it is not uncommon to hear the other side of the Rio Grande referred to as “South America,” it is amusing to observe the recent wave
of self-anointed experts in the U.S. opining authoritatively on the causes of child migration from Central America.
Some of these are talking heads of conservative punditry who seem to know zip about the region and show no interest in learning. They wing it,
presumably because they believe their viewers and listeners will never know the truth and don’t care. What matters is proving that the large number of
unaccompanied minors piling up at the border is President Barack Obama’s fault for somehow signaling that they would not be turned back. The origins
of the problem are deemed unimportant, and the fate of the children gets even less attention.
Thank heaven for four-star Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, who knows something about war and failed states and now heads the U.S. military’s Southern
Command, which keeps an eye on the region. He has spent time studying the issue and is speaking up. Conservatives might not like his conclusions, in
which the U.S. bears significant responsibility, but it is hard to accuse a four-star of a “blame America first” attitude.
To make the “Obama did it” hypothesis work, it is necessary to defeat the claim that the migrants are fleeing intolerable violence. This has given
rise to the oft-repeated line that “those countries” have always been very violent.
That is patently untrue. Central America is significantly more dangerous than it was before it became a magnet for rich, powerful drug capos. Back in
the early 1990s, drugs from South America flowed through the Caribbean to the U.S. But when a U.S. interdiction strategy in the Caribbean raised
costs, trafficking shifted to land routes up the Central American isthmus and through Mexico. With Mexican President Felipe Calderón’s war on the
cartels, launched in 2007, the underworld gradually slithered toward the poorer, weaker neighboring countries. Venezuela, under Hugo Chávez, began
facilitating the movement of cocaine from producing countries in the Andes to the U.S., also via Central America.
In a July 8 essay in the Military Times headlined “Central America Drug War a Dire Threat to U.S. National Security,” Gen. Kelly explained that he has
spent 19 months “observing the transnational organized crime networks” in the region. His conclusion: “Drug cartels and associated street gang
activity in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, which respectively have the world’s number one, four and five highest homicide rates, have left
near-broken societies in their wake.” He noted that while he works on this problem throughout the region, these three countries, also known as the
Northern Triangle, are “far and away the worst off.”
With a homicide rate of 90 per 100,000 in Honduras and 40 per 100,000 in Guatemala, life in the region is decidedly rougher than “declared combat
zones” like Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, where the general says the rate is 28 per 100,000.
How did the region become a killing field? His diagnosis is that big profits from the illicit drug trade have been used to corrupt public institutions
in these fragile democracies, thereby destroying the rule of law. In a “culture of impunity,” the state loses its legitimacy and sovereignty is
undermined. Criminals have the financial power to overwhelm the law “due to the insatiable U.S. demand for drugs, particularly cocaine, heroin and now
methamphetamines, all produced in Latin America and smuggled into the U.S.”
Gen. Kelly agreed that not all violence in the region is linked to the drug trade with the U.S., but “perhaps 80% of it is.” That’s because of the
insidiousness of the vast resources of kingpins. It’s “the malignant effects of immense drug trafficking through these non-consumer nations that is
responsible for accelerating the breakdown in their national institutions . . . and eventually their entire society as evidenced today by the flow of
children north and out of the conflictive transit zone.”
That migrant children are drawn to the U.S. when they decide to flee might very well have to do with the fact that they believe they will be able to
stay because of an asylum law for children passed in 2008 during the presidency of George W. Bush. But refugees from the Northern Triangle are seeking
other havens as well. Marc Rosenblum of the Migration Policy Institute in Washington reports that, from 2008 to 2013, Honduran, Guatemalan and
Salvadoran applications for asylum in neighboring countries — mostly Mexico and Costa Rica — are up 712 percent.
Gen. Kelly wrote that the children are “a leading indicator of the negative second- and third-order impacts on our national interests.” Whether the
problem can be solved by working harder to bottle up supply, as the general suggested, or requires rethinking prohibition, this crisis was born of
American self-indulgence. Solving it starts with taking responsibility for the demand for drugs that fuels criminality.
Mary Anastasia O’Grady is a columnist with the Wall Street Journal, where this appeared July 21. |
Left bastion? Sorry Ron, but last I knew Rupert Murdoch owned the WSJ. You obviously know how left leaning Fox is.
That said, this is a very good read.
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
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You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people. So best bet is get ready!
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
From that bastion of left wing thinking, the Wall Street Journal...
WHAT REALLY DROVE THE CHILDREN NORTH
By Mary Anastasia O'Grady | The Wall Street Journal
Tuesday, July 29, 2014 at 1:00 pm
In a nation where it is not uncommon to hear the other side of the Rio Grande referred to as “South America,” it is amusing to observe the recent wave
of self-anointed experts in the U.S. opining authoritatively on the causes of child migration from Central America.
Some of these are talking heads of conservative punditry who seem to know zip about the region and show no interest in learning. They wing it,
presumably because they believe their viewers and listeners will never know the truth and don’t care. What matters is proving that the large number of
unaccompanied minors piling up at the border is President Barack Obama’s fault for somehow signaling that they would not be turned back. The origins
of the problem are deemed unimportant, and the fate of the children gets even less attention.
Thank heaven for four-star Marine Corps Gen. John Kelly, who knows something about war and failed states and now heads the U.S. military’s Southern
Command, which keeps an eye on the region. He has spent time studying the issue and is speaking up. Conservatives might not like his conclusions, in
which the U.S. bears significant responsibility, but it is hard to accuse a four-star of a “blame America first” attitude.
To make the “Obama did it” hypothesis work, it is necessary to defeat the claim that the migrants are fleeing intolerable violence. This has given
rise to the oft-repeated line that “those countries” have always been very violent.
That is patently untrue. Central America is significantly more dangerous than it was before it became a magnet for rich, powerful drug capos. Back in
the early 1990s, drugs from South America flowed through the Caribbean to the U.S. But when a U.S. interdiction strategy in the Caribbean raised
costs, trafficking shifted to land routes up the Central American isthmus and through Mexico. With Mexican President Felipe Calderón’s war on the
cartels, launched in 2007, the underworld gradually slithered toward the poorer, weaker neighboring countries. Venezuela, under Hugo Chávez, began
facilitating the movement of cocaine from producing countries in the Andes to the U.S., also via Central America.
In a July 8 essay in the Military Times headlined “Central America Drug War a Dire Threat to U.S. National Security,” Gen. Kelly explained that he has
spent 19 months “observing the transnational organized crime networks” in the region. His conclusion: “Drug cartels and associated street gang
activity in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, which respectively have the world’s number one, four and five highest homicide rates, have left
near-broken societies in their wake.” He noted that while he works on this problem throughout the region, these three countries, also known as the
Northern Triangle, are “far and away the worst off.”
With a homicide rate of 90 per 100,000 in Honduras and 40 per 100,000 in Guatemala, life in the region is decidedly rougher than “declared combat
zones” like Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, where the general says the rate is 28 per 100,000.
How did the region become a killing field? His diagnosis is that big profits from the illicit drug trade have been used to corrupt public institutions
in these fragile democracies, thereby destroying the rule of law. In a “culture of impunity,” the state loses its legitimacy and sovereignty is
undermined. Criminals have the financial power to overwhelm the law “due to the insatiable U.S. demand for drugs, particularly cocaine, heroin and now
methamphetamines, all produced in Latin America and smuggled into the U.S.”
Gen. Kelly agreed that not all violence in the region is linked to the drug trade with the U.S., but “perhaps 80% of it is.” That’s because of the
insidiousness of the vast resources of kingpins. It’s “the malignant effects of immense drug trafficking through these non-consumer nations that is
responsible for accelerating the breakdown in their national institutions . . . and eventually their entire society as evidenced today by the flow of
children north and out of the conflictive transit zone.”
That migrant children are drawn to the U.S. when they decide to flee might very well have to do with the fact that they believe they will be able to
stay because of an asylum law for children passed in 2008 during the presidency of George W. Bush. But refugees from the Northern Triangle are seeking
other havens as well. Marc Rosenblum of the Migration Policy Institute in Washington reports that, from 2008 to 2013, Honduran, Guatemalan and
Salvadoran applications for asylum in neighboring countries — mostly Mexico and Costa Rica — are up 712 percent.
Gen. Kelly wrote that the children are “a leading indicator of the negative second- and third-order impacts on our national interests.” Whether the
problem can be solved by working harder to bottle up supply, as the general suggested, or requires rethinking prohibition, this crisis was born of
American self-indulgence. Solving it starts with taking responsibility for the demand for drugs that fuels criminality.
Mary Anastasia O’Grady is a columnist with the Wall Street Journal, where this appeared July 21. |
Left bastion? Sorry Ron, but last I knew Rupert Murdoch owned the WSJ. You obviously know how left leaning Fox is.
That said, this is a very good read. |
God-Bless Ollie!
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
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Location: Kansas Prairies
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WTF does any of this have to do with MEXICO MEXICO MEXICO not giving refuge??????
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people. So best bet is get ready!
|
Your history book was certainly not talking about Germany, was it.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Or Switzerland .... Close but, it passed ... interesting view change from 2000 to 2014 ... appears it was somewhat of a motivator at the polls
"The immigration restriction proposal passed by a narrow margin, with 50.3% of participating voters supporting the measure; the proposal was also
approved by the required majority of cantons.[7] The immigration measure requires the Swiss government to either renegotiate the Swiss-EU agreement of
free movement of people within three years, or to revoke the agreement. The proposal mandates re-introduction of strict quotas for various immigration
categories, and imposes limits on the ability of foreigners to bring in their family members to live in Switzerland, to access Swiss social security
benefits, and to request asylum.[8] Opinion polls ahead of the vote showed the lead for the opponents of the immigration measure, but that lead began
to close as the day of the referendum approached.[8]
Typical voter turnout in Switzerland is around 40%, and the 55.8% turnout for the February 2014 referendum is considered high.[9]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2014
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
From that bastion of left wing thinking, the Wall Street Journal...
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Left bastion? Sorry Ron, but last I knew Rupert Murdoch owned the WSJ. You obviously know how left leaning Fox is.
That said, this is a very good read. |
The leading comment was made tongue in cheek. One of the things I dislike about online discussions is that we cannot see each others faces or hear the
tone of voice. I probably should have added an emoticon - sorry...
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people. So best bet is get ready!
|
Your history book was certainly not talking about Germany, was it. [/quotehttp://m.thelocal.de//20131126/germany-needs-more-immigration
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by chuckie
WTF does any of this have to do with MEXICO MEXICO MEXICO not giving refuge?????? |
Chuckie, check out the film "Sin Nombre" from four or five years ago.
It may give a little bit more historical documentation.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people. So best bet is get ready!
|
The Berlin Wall?
.
[Edited on 7-31-2014 by DENNIS]
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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redmesa
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I have no idea what you are talking about, dennis. The berlin wall had nothing to do with immigration. I will stop now.
[Edited on 7-31-2014 by redmesa]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
I have no idea what you are talking about, dennis. The berlin wall had nothing to do with immigration. I will stop now.
|
Well...it had everything in the world to do with this, your original statement:
Originally posted by redmesa
"You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people"
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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BajaGringo
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Posts: 3922
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
I have no idea what you are talking about, dennis. The berlin wall had nothing to do with immigration. I will stop now.
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Well...it had everything in the world to do with this, your original statement:
Originally posted by redmesa
"You may not like it but history really has shown there is not way to stop the influx of desperate people" |
The Berlin Wall was meant to keep people from GETTING OUT of East Germany, not to keep them from getting in.
And even that didn't work all that well. Tens of thousands still managed to get over, under and around the wall, knowing that they would be shot if
caught trying. Desperate people do desperate things...
[Edited on 7-31-2014 by BajaGringo]
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
The Berlin Wall was meant to keep people from GETTING OUT of East Germany, not to keep them from getting in.
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In...out......directional semantics. The Wall was an effective barrier.
A couple of live mice doesn't mean mouse traps don't work.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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