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Purdyd
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Quote: Originally posted by gnukid  |
Here is another evaluation of the UK data set, concluding that Vaxxed are far more likely to become infected at this point by a huge margin, while
unvaxxed infection rate is stagnant or reducing.
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Table 13 from the uk data below does show a gross rate of unvaccinated having lower case rate. It also shows vaccinated are much less likely to go to
the hospital, icu, or die.
And note the footnotes in the uk data.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
| Quote: | Table 13. Unadjusted rates of COVID-19 infection, hospitalisation and death in vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.
Please note that the following table should be read in conjunction with pages 34 to 37 of this report, and the footnotes provided on page 42.
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| Quote: | 1 Comparing case rates among vaccinated and unvaccinated populations should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 infection.
Vaccine effectiveness has been formally estimated from a number of different sources and is summarised on pages 5 to 17 in this report.
The rates are calculated per 100,000 in people who have received either 2 doses of a COVID-19 vaccine or in people who have not received a COVID-19
vaccine. These figures are updated each week as the number of unvaccinated individuals and individuals vaccinated with 2 doses in the population
changes.
The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are unadjusted crude rates that do not take into account underlying statistical biases
in the data and there are likely to be systematic differences between these 2 population groups. For example:
• people who are fully vaccinated may be more health conscious and therefore more likely to get tested for COVID-19 and so more likely to be
identified as a case (based on the data provided by the NHS Test and Trace)
• many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age, their occupation, their
family circumstances or because of underlying health issues
• people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social interactions and
therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19
• people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period of the cases covered in the
report. This gives them some natural immunity to
the virus for a few months which may have contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks
2 Case rates are calculated using NIMS - a database of named individuals from which the numerator and the denominator come from the same source and
there is a record of each individuals vaccination status. Further information on the use of NIMS as the source of denominator data is presented on
page 36 of this report.
Unadjusted case rates among persons vaccinated have been formatted in grey to further emphasise the caution to be employed when interpreting these
data. |
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Skipjack: I read that story and am in full agreement. The medical community continued and has found multiple treatments for those suffering after they
contracted Covid. Remdesivir, Monoclonal Antibodies, a mixture of c-cktails were all presented as effective treatments at various times, yet for
mainly political reasons they were forcefully opposed and whoever presented them called a liar by opposing factions. Why do we continue to do this?
[Edited on 1-15-2022 by JDCanuck] |
What makes you think those were political reasons? What does one party have to gain if these meds are used or not used? As I recall the CDC wanted to
fully test these meds and give their blessing on how much they helped or didn't help. Specifically for covid. None of these meds were designed or
created for covid. Therefore any benefit from them was happenstance and needed to be fully researched with real numbers being provided that everyone
could actually trust. I know you've been pushing their usage here for several months and I feel neutral about it. They seem to help but until my
physician tells me to use it I won't listen to advice from someone on the internet. And btw, that article makes no mention of the meds you refer to.
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe | | Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Skipjack: I read that story and am in full agreement. The medical community continued and has found multiple treatments for those suffering after they
contracted Covid. Remdesivir, Monoclonal Antibodies, a mixture of c-cktails were all presented as effective treatments at various times, yet for
mainly political reasons they were forcefully opposed and whoever presented them called a liar by opposing factions. Why do we continue to do this?
[Edited on 1-15-2022 by JDCanuck] |
What makes you think those were political reasons? What does one party have to gain if these meds are used or not used? As I recall the CDC wanted to
fully test these meds and give their blessing on how much they helped or didn't help. Specifically for covid. None of these meds were designed or
created for covid. Therefore any benefit from them was happenstance and needed to be fully researched with real numbers being provided that everyone
could actually trust. I know you've been pushing their usage here for several months and I feel neutral about it. They seem to help but until my
physician tells me to use it I won't listen to advice from someone on the internet. And btw, that article makes no mention of the meds you refer to.
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Don't kid yourself. It's political.
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JDCanuck
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Yes, the FDA tested and approved them and they were later recommended by the present administration. The article you referenced was talking about a
time prior to the FDA approvals of all of the mentioned treatments and talked about the lack of treatments available. The Monoclonal Antibodies for
instance have been referenced on this site multiple times (Regeneron is one) and the political based opposition to them posted repeatedly. Florida was
one of the first states to provide separate infusion sites free of charge for those who contracted the Delta strain and it proved very effective in
reducing symptoms and preventing ICU occupancy and death.
Here is the FDA report on Regeneron:
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-a...
And here is an old article about its use in Florida:
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/08/19/what-is-regeneron-mono...
[Edited on 1-16-2022 by JDCanuck]
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Skipjack Joe
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Yes, the FDA tested and approved them and they were later recommended by the present administration. The article you referenced was talking about a
time prior to the FDA approvals of all of the mentioned treatments and talked about the lack of treatments available. The Monoclonal Antibodies for
instance have been referenced on this site multiple times (Regeneron is one) and the political based opposition to them posted repeatedly. Florida was
one of the first states to provide separate infusion sites free of charge for those who contracted the Delta strain and it proved very effective in
reducing symptoms and preventing ICU occupancy and death.
Here is the FDA report on Regeneron:
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-a...
And here is an old article about its use in Florida:
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/08/19/what-is-regeneron-mono...
[Edited on 1-16-2022 by JDCanuck] |
Both of your articles state that the FDA recommends using the vaccine. Regeneron should be used only when you've contracted the covid without the
vaccine or have immunocompromised systems. So, in effect, it's for the antivaxers. I already wrote that getting covid and treating it with these or
any other meds is much harder on the system (and expensive) than a recovery with a vaccine.
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JDCanuck
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Yes Skipjack: Thats why I chose those two articles to post about treatments developed in response to your article about there being no treatments.
Both state it is not an alternative but for use with 62 percent efficacy if you have Covid despite being vaccinated and at severe risk of extreme
effects or death. Delta especially began showing a large number of breakthroughs in fully vaccinated people and this is why it proved so effective in
saving lives and reducing ICU use where it was used in the peak of the Delta wave. I don't see anyplace where it stated it was only to be used by
unvaccinated people.
[Edited on 1-16-2022 by JDCanuck]
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gnukid
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Interesting that in USA there are no recommended prophylactic protocols commonly discussed to reduce infection and few protocols for treatment, while
in other countries there is broad success with diet, nutrition, broad vitamin supplements, in particular vitamin D and Zinc, Magnesium, Vitamin B,
Vitamin C Ascorbic C, Selenium chelated etc.
Swishing in your mouth diluted Hydrogen Peroxide, Nebulizing with Saline, etc.
There are antiviral treatments for influenza type infections, such as Oseltamivir, and success with Ivermectin, Hydroxchlorine, Quercetin,
Antihistamines, and anti-inflamatories, and these are commonly prescribed and available and inexpensive.
Yet in USA, Doctors are persecuted if they offer these prevention and treatment protocols, just as NOB Nomads chorus here?
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JDCanuck
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Hi Jz: Yeah, we already have extremely high inflation and food shortages without this. This particular decision and preceding ones that had the effect
of limiting supplies and treatments in the middle of pre-existing shortages is not a popular one. Especially when we already have this strain broadly
distributed among the general population and is showing early signs of being past peak and declining. Lots of push back from everyone involved on this
decision.
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Purdyd
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To say there has not been a push to develop treatments through repurposing current approved deugs or develop new ones would be incorrect.
The current advice in treatments is at
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/
Again I refer you to the recent presentation from the Covid task force where Dr. Fauci gave a decent overview of therapy
Starts around 10:25
https://youtu.be/t043ptThBJM
There is guidance in use of therapies when supply is constrained, and it does involve giving in some cases priority to non vaccinated as they are at
greater risk.
There are existing approved therapies and more coming that are in late stage trials.
I think the emphasis has definitely been on prevention.
That is very logical. It’s an approach that works in a lot of things from automobiles to humans.
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JDCanuck
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Purdyd: Thanks for those posts. It's really difficult to stay current on effective treatments when the nature of the new strains keeps changing.
Omicron was an entirely new situation from the devastating waves Delta created. Our province, where over 95% of 65 and older people have been
vaccinated continues to show the highest fatalities in that same age group, so treatments are becoming even more important. Whatever treatments they
are presently using against Omicron appear to be extremely effective as our ICU occupancy for those admitted for Covid continues to decline as
patients get shifted to beds and then discharged at shorter and shorter periods.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
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Recently, CDC, FDA and Fauci, and previously the PCR RT inventor Cary Mullis, clearly explained, that the primary test used to promote pandemic case
numbers, the PCR RT test, can not determine actual infection, can not discern between living and dead material, and can not be used to differentiate
type of of influenza infection, which prompted them to withdraw PCR RT EUA and STOP USING PCR RT for COVID TEST.
COVID Tests don't do what you think, Fauci Explains
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAICMQ1D5F8
FDA Withdraws EUA for PCR RT
https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert...
There is no such thing as asymptomatic infection...
CDC's Walensky says the PCR RT tests are not accurate and rapid Antigen tests are not reliable either for a variety of reasons, one of which is
mutations develop faster than the test can be developed and produced and don't tell you if you are infectious.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/live-updates/coronavirus/?id=8...
This information has been shared here on BN, about faulty tests driving policy from day one, yet removed by the admin. Now Fauci and Walensky
clearly state testing is not reliable and withdrew PCR RT EUA, since it is useless, as well as EUA for many ANTIGEN tests, basically, only the most
recently produced ANTIGEN test, meaning within days of identification of strains, could possibly be informative in anyway, which is impossible to
chase a strain, produce a test, yet, some Nomads continue to quote the inaccurate historical case numbers and attribution to death with Covid,
falsely?
Some people are arrogant, ignorant or stubborn, and they are unable to admit they have been misled and can not accept data used to drive lockdowns,
isolation, toxic hand washing and face masks, is intentionally inaccurate.
Data integrity, or data accuracy is always an issue and always should always be considered, in terms of % of error as a factor in decision making.
This faulty testing issue explains why there is no more influenza, basically COVID and Influenza are interchangeable, and explains why deaths were
falsely attributed to COVID when they were not from COVID, the patients had easily identifiable comorbidities.
Even people hit by a bus, or in car accidents, or intentional self harm (suicide) were labeled as attributed to COVID, which was incentivized through
Medicare Payments for diagnosis and intubation.
Nurse working on coronavirus frontline in New York claims the city is 'murdering' COVID-19 patients by putting them on ventilators and causing trauma
to the lungs
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8262351/Nurse-New-Y...
CDC director acknowledges hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/cdc-director-acknowl...
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/07/31/cdc-chief-agre...
Recall admission of exaggeration of cases and deaths due to attribution from only suspicion, due to loose, broadening of guidelines and testing issues
has been admitted and reiterated by Dr Birx and many others in CDC repeatedly.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_u...
It strikes me as odd, that Nomads cling to the idea of exaggerated mortality from COVID, while it is public record this is an intentional error?
[Edited on 1-17-2022 by gnukid]
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
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I came across this rather shocking dataset while researching the trends in cause of deaths overall in our province year to year sourced from our local
CDC. Top 15 causes tab gives increased info.
https://bccdc.shinyapps.io/Mortality_Context_ShinyApp/
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Yes Skipjack: Thats why I chose those two articles to post about treatments developed in response to your article about there being no treatments.
Both state it is not an alternative but for use with 62 percent efficacy if you have Covid despite being vaccinated and at severe risk of
extreme effects or death. Delta especially began showing a large number of breakthroughs in fully vaccinated people and this is why it proved
so effective in saving lives and reducing ICU use where it was used in the peak of the Delta wave. I don't see anyplace where it stated it was only to
be used by unvaccinated people.
[Edited on 1-16-2022 by JDCanuck] |
Hmmm. As I recall the FDA recommends using these drugs in the early stages or for moderately affected patients for their greatest benefit. They don't
work so well for the severely ill. I don't know, JD. Every time I read anything you write in response to my comments seems off from what I said. For
example, I never said your article stated these meds were for antivaxers. Why do you misquote me?
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JDCanuck
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Hi Skipjack: Yes I may have misread this one from you:
"Both of your articles state that the FDA recommends using the vaccine. Regeneron should be used only when you've contracted the covid without the
vaccine or have immunocompromised systems. So, in effect, it's for the antivaxers. I already wrote that getting covid and treating it with these or
any other meds is much harder on the system (and expensive) than a recovery with a vaccine.
"
My apologies
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100X
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Mood: Thankful
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Omicron comes along and saves the day, so the politicians then jump in and try to take the credit...
A life of fears leads to a death bed of regrets.
Find someone who will take care of you, and take care of them.
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surfhat
Senior Nomad
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For the life of me, I cannot understand the few who promote any anti-vax regimens.
What could be their impetus?
Especially when they are fully vaccinated themselves.
Hypocrisy runs rampant, unless I am missing something.
While we all may have somewhat survived with Omicron, one thing is for sure. It will not be the last covid mutation to come our way.
Where in the history of this pandemic do you want to be known for?
Deniers be damned.
I will stand for this position for all my days that I am allowed by the powers of my gene pool and my actions to protect others first and myself
second.
Social media has a responsibility that is being discounted to all of us survivors.
I wish nothing but the same for all, even the deniers out there that have an unexplainable compulsion to attempt to influence others to deny the truth
of the effectiveness of the MRNA vaccines.
Nothing will deter these .......pos!!! That most of these deniers turn out to be fully vaccinated themselves, should disqualify them from having a
voice on this forum on this specific topic.
I can dream. Hope springs eternal and always will.
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10561
Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by surfhat | For the life of me, I cannot understand the few who promote any anti-vax regimens.
What could be their impetus?
Especially when they are fully vaccinated themselves.
Hypocrisy runs rampant, unless I am missing something.
While we all may have somewhat survived with Omicron, one thing is for sure. It will not be the last covid mutation to come our way.
Where in the history of this pandemic do you want to be known for?
Deniers be damned.
I will stand for this position for all my days that I am allowed by the powers of my gene pool and my actions to protect others first and myself
second.
Social media has a responsibility that is being discounted to all of us survivors.
I wish nothing but the same for all, even the deniers out there that have an unexplainable compulsion to attempt to influence others to deny the truth
of the effectiveness of the MRNA vaccines.
Nothing will deter these .......pos!!! That most of these deniers turn out to be fully vaccinated themselves, should disqualify them from having a
voice on this forum on this specific topic.
I can dream. Hope springs eternal and always will.
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Don't confuse anti-vax and anti-mandate. Or even ppl who don't want to take the vaxx with anti-vaxxers.
Only 17% of kids 5-11 are vaccinated. Are all those parents anti-vax?
It's nuanced, and shouldn't be treated with a broad brush as many are.
Very few ppl are truly anti-vax (I think only 1 person on BN is). The media and others have spun and exaggerated this anti-vaxxer narrative to divide
America. It's exact what Goat does here.
[Edited on 1-16-2022 by JZ]
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Cancamo
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In interest of the original post, what is the protocol if arriving passengers are tested positive? I don't see them requiring a quarantined stay in a
designated location like say, Australia, Canada, or other countries.
Not set up for that here, although they do, as a whole, treat this thing seriously. Just about everybody knows someone whom has died from Covid,
mainly before vaccines were widely available. Hospitals are at 65% capacity currently, and BCS in orange level, no groups more than 50 people, etc....
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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There is no test for arriving passengers to Mexico? There is only a test for departing airline passengers depending on destination outside the
country, for example, to USA? The departure test can be redone repeatedly continuously until you get a negative up to 5 days before departure.
Many different tests exist, USA will send you for free multiple Home Antigen tests after Jan 19th, or you can buy AntiGen in advance at Walmart,
because PCR RT is no longer a valid test, while AntiGen is also unreliable, but that is not the point of the test for air travel.
Home Antigen tests must be done with online verification, you need to have online access while you take it? Or instead test at the airport, or at a
unique site at your local destination up to 5 days prior. It's an arbritrary test, the results are based on the method not on presence of infection or
viral load, therefore, travelers tests stations are almost always negative and people who go to doctors to be tested to ask if they are infected are
almost always positive due to incentivization.
[Edited on 1-17-2022 by gnukid]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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The fact that the current Moderna and Pfizer etc. vaccines do not stop infection or transmission of current dominant strain Omicron, (nor other
strains for that matter) makes current mRNA Vaccine products against these Corona Influenza type infections non-starters, today. Not only do they not
reduce infection and transmission they seem to increase risk according to current hospital data.
Not only vaccines, but common cloth face mask have no affect on particle size of dead viral expectorants, so face masks are useless as Fauci also
confirmed this week.
Why are Fauci et al running so hard to back track on these issues now? Could it be fthey ear of pending mass class action lawsuits that place a high
price on intentional negligent fraud to cause significant harm and death?
[Edited on 1-17-2022 by gnukid]
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