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JDCanuck
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BEV's, Hybrids and/or Independent Solar in Baja
Maybe this more broad topic can find a home here where we can support differing views on this subject. At present, reliable EV chargers seem to be
very limited down the peninsula. Maybe people can freely contribute to their experiences as they drive up and down the peninsula with either hybrids
or full BEVs so we can all benefit in future trip planning.
Is it more environmentally responsible to invest in independent solar systems or EV's considering the present CFE power sources on the peninsula, or
both?
[Edited on 6-9-2024 by JDCanuck]
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oxxo
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IN MY OPINION, purchasing a Hybrid is like owning a Model T with
a trailer, so you can tow a horse if you can't find a gasoline station when you need it. And of course we know how history proved how flawed that
strategy was.
IN MY OPINION, hybrids are merely a crutch for those who have range anxiety with a BEV. BEV's are still in their infancy stage. They are rapidly
advancing in their development. Hybrids are a marketing tool by some auto manufacturers as a means to extract money from people who cannot see what
the next 5 years holds for us in Baja California.
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JDCanuck
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Quote: Originally posted by oxxo  | IN MY OPINION, purchasing a Hybrid is like owning a Model T with
a trailer, so you can tow a horse if you can't find a gasoline station when you need it. And of course we know how history proved how flawed that
strategy was.
IN MY OPINION, hybrids are merely a crutch for those who have range anxiety with a BEV. BEV's are still in their infancy stage. They are rapidly
advancing in their development. Hybrids are a marketing tool by some auto manufacturers as a means to extract money from people who cannot see what
the next 5 years holds for us in Baja California. |
I used to be of the same opinion for when EV batteries will provide the full range required of them, or fast enough charging at a reasonable cost to
permit transit over long distances. We aren't quite there yet in Baja, but hybrids will provide enough solar provided range for free to do 95% of the
driving asked of them. Baja happens to have very rich solar capabilities and this can be provided very inexpensively at present. Until the present
situation changes, Hybrids with limited range batteries of 60 to 80 miles can drastically reduce pollution and reduce expenses of petroleum based
travel for a majority of people.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | IN MY OPINION, purchasing a Hybrid is like owning a Model T with
a trailer, so you can tow a horse if you can't find a gasoline station when you need it. And of course we know how history proved how flawed that
strategy was.
IN MY OPINION, hybrids are merely a crutch for those who have range anxiety with a BEV. BEV's are still in their infancy stage. They are rapidly
advancing in their development. Hybrids are a marketing tool by some auto manufacturers as a means to extract money from people who cannot see what
the next 5 years holds for us in Baja California. |
I get rental cars frequently for work and personal travel. I have rented electric, and found it frustrating to refuel, and i do not like having to
shop for hotels while limited to chargers.
I often get hybrids, fueling is easy.
I have found that electric is not ready for prime time of road tripping or rental market.
Maybe in in 5 years electric will be convenient,…
Until then, i am huffing gas.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck |
We aren't quite there yet in Baja, but hybrids will provide enough solar provided range for free to do 95% of the driving asked of them.
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According to research, Hybrids are effective for around town business, but on long trips, like Baja, they are effective for only 5 - 10% of that trip
because owners have range anxiety so they depend on gasoline to make that trip. Yes, it does help to address climate change but it is not a strategy
to solve the climate change issue caused by reliance on petrol chemicals.
| Quote: | | Hybrids with limited range batteries of 60 to 80 miles can drastically reduce pollution and reduce expenses of petroleum based travel for a majority
of people. |
No, the reliance on petrol chemicals, at any amount, does NOT drastically reduce pollution - minimally yes, but not drastically. Reducing expenses
for travel on gasoline, is NOT a good reason for using gasoline. You drive a BEV to leave a better world than you inherited, not a less expensive
world to you personally.
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
I get rental cars frequently for work and personal travel. I have rented electric, and found it frustrating to refuel, and i do not like having to
shop for hotels while limited to chargers. |
I find it frustrating to refuel at Costco, waiting in line for 20 minutes and more, and then behind someone who is talking on their cell phone while
their tank is full.
About 99% of the time, I charge at home at night, like tonight, while I sleep. No frustration for me in that scenario.
| Quote: | I have found that electric is not ready for prime time of road tripping or rental market.
Maybe in in 5 years electric will be convenient,…
Until then, i am huffing gas. |
Do as you wish, but in the meantime, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Who would want to be inconvenienced by breathing dirty in
a rapidly evolving climate change environment.
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JDCanuck
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This is the solution we have found til now here in Canada. We do 95% of our driving (local only) with a Leaf EV on 97% renewables sourced power at a
cost of .043 USD per mile and charging every week or two on level 1 or 2 chargers. Longer distance travel outside that radius will be done with a
hybrid with a drastically reduced MPGe of perhaps 80 MPGe compared to a 20 mpg petrol vehicle. The technology to exceed that does not exist yet to
meet our transport needs. But in Baja, with extremely low cost solar it does, but only at present using hybrids that can be charged for free with a
small additional investment in excess panels. If 95-98% of the driving can be accomplished with solar power sourced power, how is that a negative as
compared to petrol fueled travel?
[Edited on 6-8-2024 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
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When BEV does not yet supply 100% of our needs for transportation, we look to some alternative that gets us 90 percent of the way there. This isn't
capitulation, its progress. I am one who firmly believes that technology will advance and very soon, with Solid State batteries (or one of the
presently researched alternatives) we will be able to break through the mileage barriers we now face and both land and air travel can be accomplished
fully with EV sources
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | | You drive a BEV to leave a better world than you inherited, not a less expensive world to you personally. |
Here's something I don't quite understand- when people say they don't want an EV because the infrastructure, i.e. charging stations "just isn't there
yet", it seems like they aren't thinking about supply and demand. It seems obvious to me that the more people who start asking hotels and Airbnbs if
they can charge their EV there if they book with them, the more likely those businesses are to realize, hey, this is going to up our business, and
provide EV chargers.
If people just keep driving gas-fueled cars or even hybrids, because there aren't enough public chargers, there's no incentive to supply chargers,
because the demand isn't there.
I would love to have an EV, but I simply don't have the $ to buy one at this point, so I'm just going to have to stick with my old gas guzzler for
now, which I'll probably drive til it dies. But when it does, I'll definitely be going for an EV. I really don't drive that much, so there's that. A
shopping day for me is a day-long affair, with about 10 different stops, as I try to get everything I'll need for several weeks at once. I probably
drive a total of about 8 hours a month, if that.
Another thing that affects whether someone can get along with an EV, just charging it up overnight at home, not having to be concerned about range
til the next charging station, is what your life looks like. Someone who is retired, or who works from home usually doesn't have the same
transportation concerns or the same time constraints as someone who needs to drive to work every day, pick up work materials, see clients, ferry kids
around, etc.
Another thing is, unless I was just going to sell my car for scrap rather than to someone else, and buy an EV, my old gas guzzler is still going to
be driving around polluting, it will just be someone else who is causing the pollution, not me. So it doesn't really solve the pollution problem.
[Edited on 6-8-2024 by surabi]
[Edited on 6-8-2024 by surabi]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | | Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
I get rental cars frequently for work and personal travel. I have rented electric, and found it frustrating to refuel, and i do not like having to
shop for hotels while limited to chargers. |
I find it frustrating to refuel at Costco, waiting in line for 20 minutes and more, and then behind someone who is talking on their cell phone while
their tank is full.
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I dont fuel at costco. Silly to wait in line for gas. Cheap gas available lots of places ofher than costco, and no lines! |
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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JDCanuck
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Affordability is the main reason people do not convert. You can presently spend 20,000 extra to buy an EV, under the expectation of reducing your
personal carbon footprint somewhat over 10 years if you actually keep it that long. Or...you can take that 20,000 and install solar panels and offset
the coal, oil and other hydrocarbon power supply you would otherwise use. This is the choice most people in Baja are faced with and so far, solar
power is the better investment, as even moderately poorer people are able to slowly replace their CFE power with solar. In Baja, CFE electric is less
than 21% renewables and falling as more and more diesel generating units come into the grid. If you drive an EV there and charge off the grid, you are
reducing the carbon footprint by 21% for that 20,000 investment. If you install solar panels, the reduction is 100%
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JDCanuck
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Or...install 30,000 worth of solar panels, power your house, and have enough additional solar generated power to accomplish 95% of your driving with
either a plug-in hybrid on solar sourced electric or a BEV and in addition have a gas powered vehicle for the other 5%. You will now be using 5% of
the petrol fuels you did previously and none of the power will be from the high hydrocarbon CFE power in Baja. What might really surprise some is of
this relatively dirty CFE power in Baja California, a full 1/4 is exported to California to supply their ever increasing demand for grid power. If you
drive an EV in California at present, you will be powering the EV on 60% renewables sourced power if you charge from the grid, 100% if you charge from
installed solar panels.
https://iamericas.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Baja_Energy...
Currently Baja California has 14 operational utility scale power plants with a combined installed
capacity of 4,049 megawatts (MW). However, not all of the units are under the same regulatory
framework. With 1,102 MW destined for export to California, that leaves Baja California with an
effective installed capacity of 2,947 MW.
[Edited on 6-8-2024 by JDCanuck]
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AKgringo
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Just curious about panels.....
Aside from storm damage, do they degrade over time?
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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AKgringo
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A promising development concerning EV safety
Self-extinguishing batteries: www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/scientists-make-breakthroug...
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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JDCanuck
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Well, the last ones i checked were guaranteed for 20 years with minimal degradation of I think 15%? So after 20 years you would want to upgrade or
install more...maybe? Ours have been in service for 3 years now with no noticeable degradation, we did deplete the batteries for about 1 hour overnite
before they started charging again on 2 occasions before we increased the battery storage by 60%. We had to go around and reset the clocks on
appliances.
The LiFePO4 solar storage batteries are rated at 6000 cycles at 90 percent discharges per cycle. This is significantly better than the lithium packs
used in vehicles and there have never been fire problems with this type of battery chemistry.
[Edited on 6-8-2024 by JDCanuck]
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Tioloco
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EV's just dont have the range and convenience to make them feasible for most of us at this point. I am very happy with the performance, range,
convenience and reliability of my diesel powered truck.
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surabi
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As far as driving your solar charged EV and your household consumption goes. But unless there is no carbon footprint involved in the production and
transportation of the solar equipment you buy and install, and no carbon footprint involved in the manufacture and transportation of an EV one would
purchase, which isn't the case at present, it would take awhile of being off-grid to offset that.
Not sure if anyone has developed an app where you could enter your numbers and get an answer to how long being exclusively on solar would balance out
the carbon footprint, but it would be a useful tool.
For instance, I currently use about 90kw of CFE electricity per month, and one tank of gasoline per month. That has a carbon footprint of X.
If I were to switch to solar, and buy an EV, the production and shipping of that equipment creates a carbon footprint of Y.
How many months or years would it take for X to balance out Y?
Obviously, for heavy consumers of electricity and those who drive a lot, it's going to balance out fairly quickly, but for low consumers like me, I'm
really curious as to how long it would take for me to be a person who had reduced my carbon footprint, all factors considered.
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JDCanuck
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EV certainly not for everyone...yet. I suspect if we can get the same energy output density by weight as gasoline carries that will change.
Apparently, this is a possibility with new technology being developed.
This would mean an electric motor at 85% efficiency would need to have storage batteries weighing less than 4 times the weight of gasoline fuel tank
with IC engines running at 21% efficiency.
We locally have a commercial air line about to fly people from here to Vancouver on their converted to Electric planes. Test flights were completed 2
years ago.
https://harbourair.com/harbour-airs-all-electric-aircraft-op...
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
As far as driving your solar charged EV and your household consumption goes. But unless there is no carbon footprint involved in the production and
transportation of the solar equipment you buy and install, and no carbon footprint involved in the manufacture and transportation of an EV one would
purchase, which isn't the case at present, it would take awhile of being off-grid to offset that.
Not sure if anyone has developed an app where you could enter your numbers and get an answer to how long being exclusively on solar would balance out
the carbon footprint, but it would be a useful tool.
For instance, I currently use about 90kw of CFE electricity per month, and one tank of gasoline per month. That has a carbon footprint of X.
If I were to switch to solar, and buy an EV, the production and shipping of that equipment creates a carbon footprint of Y.
How many months or years would it take for X to balance out Y?
Obviously, for heavy consumers of electricity and those who drive a lot, it's going to balance out fairly quickly, but for low consumers like me, I'm
really curious as to how long it would take for me to be a person who had reduced my carbon footprint, all factors considered. |
Now that is an interesting question. How much MORE energy and pollution is caused in producing solar panels than a new diesel generator that is
presently being built to supply our increased power demand. How much MORE energy or pollution goes into an EV compared to the IC vehicle you will
instead replace your current one with.
For us it was easy...we built a house and put 10% of total cost into the solar system. No additional power poles, generating plants or additional
lines were required to power our home (the cost of this alternative was many times greater) and our power will be available for 20 years without any
appreciable additional expense.
When people cost out solar or EVs they tend to look only at the cost of the purchase, but do not factor out the cost of alternatives. Baja has an
extreme solar capability, as does California and several southern states. Here in Canada, we would need more than twice the number of panels to
achieve the same power output.
The average factor per day in Baja where we built was 5.5 times the rated power wattage per day in watt hours produced. So with a bit over 10kw panels
we averaged over 55kwh per day through the year available to be used.
Now the EV: In our case we purchased a used EV when we needed a newer vehicle. It has effectively 3 years use on the batteries, and we paid 5,000 more
than we would have for an IC car that would get 25mpg of the same age. So the additional cost of 5000 has to be recovered over the next 7 years, or
about 700 per year. I have to admit, this car is far more pleasurable to drive than our last compact IC car. Tighter turning radius by far, very very
quiet even at freeway speeds and automatic braking which reduced our insurance costs as well. Heated seats, heated steering wheel are overkill and we
definitely seldom use them. E-pedal regenerative braking means we very seldom ever touch the brake pedal as releasing the gas pedal slows the car
pretty quickly.
I could not justify the extra 20,000 or more extra cost to buy a new EV and I suspect you are in the same situation. We only put about 10,000 km per
year on all our vehicles combined now that we are retired.
[Edited on 6-9-2024 by JDCanuck]
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cupcake
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I don't have an EV, but I appreciate their promise, in regards to better air quality. I lived in the Inland Empire of southern California in the 60s
and 70s, when the summer smog was absolutely horrific. Much better now due to government emissions restrictions. I am all for reducing air pollution.
I am reading that with 1.7 million electric vehicles currently on the roads in California, drivers are saying there are not enough public chargers.
With the time required to charge an EV varying depending on the charger used, from 30 minutes to a number of hours, I am trying to envision what the
situation would be if the total number of vehicles on the road were electric (California has more than 30 million registered vehicles). What kind of
charging 'bottleneck' would this possibly create? It might be necessary to restrict driving days, or possibly charging days. With the current state of
EV charging technology, it seems to me that there would be a real traffic jam, or 'charging jam', unless the number of EV charging stations were made
to far exceed the number of gasoline stations that currently meet the needs of vehicles on the road.
Not Enough Chargers in Top EV Market California, Drivers Say
https://www.voanews.com/a/not-enough-chargers-in-top-ev-mark...
[Edited on 6-8-2024 by cupcake]
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