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David K
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2024 Trail of Missions show
The show aired on ESPN yesterday and now can be watched on YouTube.
This year, Cameron returned to some of the locations we had scouted out in 2019: Mission Guadalupe (west of Mulegé), San Borjitas painted cave, the
Visita de San Pablo, etc.
For the second year, the vehicles were Can-Am side-by-sides. Sara Price (of Dakar fame) was along with this group.
See the missions of San Ignacio, Guadalupe, Mulegé, San José de Comondú, Loreto, and San Javier. La Purísima mission was mentioned as they passed
El Pilón and a stop at El Horno lime kiln, too.
2024 Trail of Missions Show
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towntaco
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I was happy to see it pop up in my feed, will watch later this week.
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mtgoat666
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I guess those guy don't take to the “tread lightly” ethos of responsible offroaders, eh?
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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David K
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They do enjoy splashing in the arroyo water when a road crosses one. When I traveled with Cameron's group, the film crew liked the splash scenes.
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4x4abc
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like all good invaders - you just trample through it
they did not get a single one of the local names right
Baja has no defense - so you exploit it for your own gains
a disgusting show of ignorance
Harald Pietschmann
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mtgoat666
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | | They do enjoy splashing in the arroyo water when a road crosses one. When I traveled with Cameron's group, the film crew liked the splash scenes.
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What are they, screenagers?
People that that travel with focus on doing facebook and YouTube vids are twits.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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David K
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I think Cameron intentionally goofs up names in an attempt to keep it secret? In 2019, he spelled San Pablo correctly. I also sent him how to say
guéribo correctly a few weeks ago when he asked me the name of that tree.. oh well, as they say, if you can do it better, do it!
Just enjoy the sites even if the spelling or pronunciation makes you cringe... as it does for me!
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | I think Cameron intentionally goofs up names in an attempt to keep it secret? In 2019, he spelled San Pablo correctly. I also sent him how to say
guéribo correctly a few weeks ago when he asked me the name of that tree.. oh well, as they say, if you can do it better, do it!
Just enjoy the sites even if the spelling or pronunciation makes you cringe... as it does for me! |
Visita Paublo in big letters on the screen
[Edited on 8-1-2024 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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pacificobob
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Interested in the place.... Not so much the language. That says something.
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David K
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See when Cameron and I first went there, in 2019 (and it is spelled correctly, lol): https://youtu.be/WmZxWMsjsBU?si=t2EA8rFu7FyTN9W9
At Minute 6:14 we arrive and I describe what it was.
[Edited on 8-1-2024 by David K]
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Ken Cooke
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Use of firearms, corporal punishment in the form of whippings and religious ritual and psychological punishments were all methods employed by the
missionaries to maintain and expand control.
There were instances of armed resistance by the Indians against the missions, notably the Pericue revolt of 1734-1737, and Indians at the missions
frequently ran away to escape the religious and labor regime forced on them by the missionaries or sabotaged the missionary's efforts by passive
resistance.
At the time of first contact with the Spanish, the Native Americans living in Baja California may have numbered as many as 60,000. By 1762, their
numbers had fallen to 21,000 and by 1800 to 5,900. The primary reason for the decline was recurrent epidemics of European diseases, primarily
smallpox, measles, and typhus.
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_missions_in_Baja_Cal...
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David K
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Ken, it has become a popular idea that the Natives were enslaved and beaten by the padres and soldiers. Evidence (documentation) however is not so
convincing. The Pericú Revolt was not a result of that, either. It is also not totally enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's
standards.
The Jesuits never forced or imprisoned the Natives. What changed was after the Spanish government took over the California mission program from the
Jesuits (who had control over the soldiers to protect the Natives from cruelty). The Jesuits learned the Native languages and respected their
territorial homelands. You can see this on the 1757 maps listing the Native lands by name.
The government officials made it clear in 1768+ that the land was the King's and that all who lived on it were subjects of the King... to do 'his'
bidding. They had the Franciscans take over California missions but controlled what missions stayed open and where the Natives could live.
Within months of the Franciscans arrival (April 1768), the Spanish governor ordered two missions closed (Dolores and San Luis Gonzaga) and the Natives
were forced to move from their homeland to Todos Santos where the governor thought more food could be produced. The move was disastrous and most
perished.
Be angry if you like, but be angry at government who ended the Jesuits mission program and made new, harsher rules for the Franciscans and Dominicans
to use. Of interest, Franciscan Junípero Serra was so enraged by the soldiers treatment of Natives (in Alta California), that he traveled to Mexico
City to get the government to do something. At Monterey, he moved the mission to Carmel, just to get the Natives away from the soldiers who were
stationed at the Monterey Presidio.
Sad that one of the good padres, Serra, has been so vilified by those uneducated in the facts in recent years.
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Ken Cooke
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Ken, it has become a popular idea that the Natives were enslaved and beaten by the padres and soldiers. Evidence (documentation) however is not so
convincing. The Pericú Revolt was not a result of that, either. It is also not totally enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's
standards.
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My Great Grandfather was enslaved most of his life. My Father (RIP) interviewed him and used their documented conversations for interactive
discussions at Churches, Community Centers, and Schools. So, you feel it is not enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards?
North Carolina Republican Gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson actually approaches slavery through a similar lens. Your opinion is completely
invalid.
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David K
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| Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | Ken, it has become a popular idea that the Natives were enslaved and beaten by the padres and soldiers. Evidence (documentation) however is not so
convincing. The Pericú Revolt was not a result of that, either. It is also not totally enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's
standards.
|
My Great Grandfather was enslaved most of his life. My Father (RIP) interviewed him and used their documented conversations for interactive
discussions at Churches, Community Centers, and Schools. So, you feel it is not enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards?
North Carolina Republican Gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson actually approaches slavery through a similar lens. Your opinion is completely
invalid. |
Ken, I am not expressing an opinion. I am sharing the fact that there is no documentation or evidence of that in Baja California, especially during
the Jesuit period before Spain's takeover, which was well documented. This thread is about a TV show and off-roaders visiting some sites in the
southern half of the peninsula. It is not a historic discussion of slavery. My opinion is slavery is wrong and should be ended everywhere, like the
events of the 1860s that ended it.
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Tioloco
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Back on topic,
It is always interesting to see the missions and admire the craftsmanship. Hard to imagine being able to build those in such remote locations without
modern machinery. Fascinating really.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | Ken, it has become a popular idea that the Natives were enslaved and beaten by the padres and soldiers. Evidence (documentation) however is not so
convincing. The Pericú Revolt was not a result of that, either. It is also not totally enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's
standards.
|
My Great Grandfather was enslaved most of his life. My Father (RIP) interviewed him and used their documented conversations for interactive
discussions at Churches, Community Centers, and Schools. So, you feel it is not enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards?
North Carolina Republican Gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson actually approaches slavery through a similar lens. Your opinion is completely
invalid. |
Ken, I am not expressing an opinion. I am sharing the fact that there is no documentation or evidence of that in Baja California, especially during
the Jesuit period before Spain's takeover, which was well documented. This thread is about a TV show and off-roaders visiting some sites in the
southern half of the peninsula. It is not a historic discussion of slavery. My opinion is slavery is wrong and should be ended everywhere, like the
events of the 1860s that ended it. |
Dk,
The church waged cultural genocide on the natives. And in many cases enslaved or indentured natives. Tourist visitors to the missions should know the
whole truth.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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David K
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The church did no such thing. Native deaths were an accidental result from the introduction of diseases to which the locals had little or no
resistance to. These introductions began before the missionaries arrived.
Once a treatment or cure was developed, it was then used to treat the Natives as documented at Mission San Ignacio during the Dominican period. The
missions were there to convert and instruct the Natives and to increase the numbers who joined the mission. Deaths of the mission church members was
the very opposite of the padres' intentions. They did all they knew how to prevent these deaths and stop women from aborting their pregnancies (a
common practice when times were tough).
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pacificobob
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | I think Cameron intentionally goofs up names in an attempt to keep it secret? In 2019, he spelled San Pablo correctly. I also sent him how to say
guéribo correctly a few weeks ago when he asked me the name of that tree.. oh well, as they say, if you can do it better, do it!
Just enjoy the sites even if the spelling or pronunciation makes you cringe... as it does for me! |
My money is that ignorance is the cause of the mispronounced words.
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pacificobob
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | Back on topic,
It is always interesting to see the missions and admire the craftsmanship. Hard to imagine being able to build those in such remote locations without
modern machinery. Fascinating really. |
So much can be accomplished with slave labor!
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob | | Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | Back on topic,
It is always interesting to see the missions and admire the craftsmanship. Hard to imagine being able to build those in such remote locations without
modern machinery. Fascinating really. |
So much can be accomplished with slave labor! |
No evidence of that. But you are free to think whatever you wish.
The temples on the mainland are equally impressive.
[Edited on 10-8-2024 by Tioloco]
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