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Anonymous
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Chicken and egg thing
I am posting this as ?Anonymous? not to hide my identity but to protect folks who have been very nice to me.
On my last trip to the mid-riff area my buddies and I were driving homeward and as happens during the long drive home it gets quiet in the car as
people think about the good times that just happened and the working weeks ahead. During one of the long silences someone asks: ?What comes first,
Baja or alcoholism?? . After the guffaws and spit-takes, a fairly serious discussion took place ? and it stills haunts me a little.
So many people that have retired to Baja just don?t seem to do any of the things that attracted them there in the first place ? they just start
drinking about noon and don?t quit until bed time ? day after day after day. Is it simply because that is the habit from vacationing that carries over
into retirement, is it boredom, is it a feeling of disconnect from the people around you (locals) because you never really learned the language or you
are a shy person to begin with, or was drinking too important to you always and now there is nothing to get in the way (work, family etc), does Baja
attract people who want to ?hide-out?? What?s the deal?
I am particularly concerned because I will be soon retiring and see myself turning into one of these kinds of retirees and wish to avoid it while
still enjoying that first cold beer when we turn off the main road???..
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comitan
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Location: La Paz
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Its quite simple you set the rules in your life, if you decide to bury all of the things that bother you in alchohol, Then I would say your just
biding your time for the final day, with no other accomplishments.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Ken Bondy
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I have a theory
Most of my trips to Baja have been in my own private aircraft. We would often take friends with us, of course, and it was interesting to observe
their reactions. Our favorite places were San Francisquito and Punta Pescadero. From our departure airport (Van Nuys) we could be in San
Francisquito in less than four hours, in Pescadero in less than eight. Talk about cultural shock!! To be transported from the freeways and pace of
LA to the beaches of Baja in a few hours was often like an explosion for our guests. Normal people literally went crazy. We watched many a drunken
first night where the cervezas flowed too much and the heads hurt too much the next day. The "first night" syndrome, we would call it. It had
happened to us in our first years of coming down, but eventually it passed as we got to know what to expect, and we started pacing ourselves and
behaving more calmly on that "first night". Plus we didn't want to pay the price of losing the second day to a massive hangover. As our guests made
more trips with us, we noticed the change in them too, except for the ones in which drinking itself was the important thing, regardless of the
setting. So, while I have never lived in Baja for an extended time, my theory is that Baja itself wouldn't influence the eventual lifestyle to any
great degree. People who retire in Baja will do about the same thing they would be doing if they retired anywhere else. Just my $0.02.
++Ken++
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
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Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
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Mood: happy and retired
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Well my dos centavos: Baja came first, then a guy with a gallon of red and a gallon of white...paint, he started painting every store with the Tecate
logo,he then painted every little restaurant with the same logo...meanwhile his brother was putting up billboards with beautiful se?oritas selling
tequila and rum,everywhere you look in Mexico...booze is cheep and plentyful...cheers
I hear the whales song
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
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Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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in baja beer tastes more like water...
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eetdrt88
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its easy to forget whats important...
which of couse is staying drunk
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Bruce R Leech
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Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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your right I have noticed this in our aria. I think allot of the people that retire here do so because they cant afford to where they come from. so
they come here and drink them selves to death. some people go north to the US to git 4 or 5 bypass surgery's and come back here and start drinking
more than ever. dose that make any kind of sense? If you like adventure better than television and this is really where you want to be you will be OK.
I drink about 30 beers a year and really don't enjoy them that much.But git me in to the mountains hiking and I'm in heaven.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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TMW
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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This is a very interesting topic. A couple of years ago this topic came up between my two older and retired brothers and I. One brother who has
traveled a great deal in Baja since the mid 60s believes that most retirees to Baja become drunks if they aren't already. He thinks it's because they
tire of what attracted them there to begin with, fishing, camping , exploring, solitude, etc. etc. He by the way quit drinking about 10 years ago. My
oldest brother stays very busy in the midwest where he lives and drinks very little. I on the other hand have a drink, usually two or three, every
evening when I get home from work and I enjoy it. I drink more when I'm in Baja and I've started to think about it more as I reach retirement age and
what could happen.
I would be interested in anyone who quit after moving to Baja and why they quit.
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Anonymous
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Last year when i was in Santa Rosalia I had to use the ATM at the Banamex in town,standing on the sidewalk in front of the ATM a gentelman in his mid
thirtys stood holding a coffee size can with a card attached...after completing my business I asked what he was collecting for,he stated it was for a
AA type place, I asked if it was for gringos and he replyed it was for everyone and at this time it was about 50/50 locals and gringos...que lastima
P.S. during the month I was in Baja,from TJ to Cabo it was the only place I saw someone with their hand out(he did not ask,just stood there),,I live
in Northern California and every Safeway,Target and K-Mart has someone out in front begging for one thing or another....Bajagrouper
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JESSE
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Yes, its fairly easy to just get lost on 100% relaxation and waste your time away in margaritaville, even for young people, not just retirees. I think
it all depends on what you want, if your like those old indians that walked to the mountains into a cave to die, then go ahead and drink the days away
and wait to die, but if you arent into slow-mo suicide, theres plenty of things to do like start a business, get involved in some sort of charity, or
heck, writte a book or two or something.
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vgabndo
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Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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A very interesting thread...
As an, almost 100%, sober "recovering alcoholic" who in the past drank himself literally to death's door on two occasions, and who once owned a
saloon, I have some ideas.
First, like the government's war on terror, the war on drugs attacked the wrong enemy. Alcohol and tobacco kill more people, users and the innocent,
by a factor of at least 100, than all the street drugs together. You can buy them on any street corner. They have both been glorified by our
culture. It took a LONG time to eliminate the "three martini lunch" from America's business climate. We have forgotten that alcohol IS a killer drug.
Secondly, I see something of a comparison with what I, as a Californian, felt the first time I lived and worked in the deep South. There was
practically no social price at all to be paid for the most abject levels of ignorance, illiteracy, racism, sexism, and homophobia. They just seemed
to accept those people as "good old boys". Similarly, I feel that our Mexican hosts have come to expect that a large percentage of their northern
guests are going to be loud, obnoxious drunks, and there is little stigma attached which would suggest to the offenders that they change their
conduct.
On this site, there are a number of regular contributors who find that alcohol and getting drunk are a major part of their lives. They think nothing
of it, and in fact take it as a point of pride. I don't think they realize how obvious they are to those here on this board who have come to an
understanding of the seriousness of that kind of drug use.
It gets down to quality of life, doesn't it? Every individual has the choice to get up in the morning crisp and clear-headed and stay that way all
day, or...not. Most drugs it seems, like membership in religious cults, are very attractive to people who just have too much trouble handling the
reality of day to day life.
So long as the abuser doesn't harm anyone else by their conduct, everyone should have the right to get high and/or kill themselves any way they
choose.
The problem, in my not so humble opinion, is that the abuse almost never goes on without the harm. It is hard work to live straight and clean
ANYWHERE.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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yankeeirishman
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I agree with u vgabndo
"So long as the abuser doesn't harm anyone else by their conduct, everyone should have the right to get high and/or kill themselves any way they
choose".
Except for the above quote. I would hate to have my kids to watch a drunk everyday (like a neighbor on his/her porch)...thinking "that's okay" and to
proceed with the same mentality in life. There can be harm from drunken or drugged actions of one?from a distance. No offense to your letter Mr.
vgabndo.
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eetdrt88
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Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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hey jesse...
i couldnt agree with you more,what you do in baja or anywhere depends upon what level you want to be involved with that place and particular
situation....when i'm fishing or at the beach i'm always having a few beers,but i'm quickly learning theres so much more to baja than just those
things....starting off with the people and the culture as well as the wealth and abundance of raw nature..............you know i've taken alot of baja
trips where i've brought people down for their first time and of course the lack of rules mixed with the natural beauty of the place gets them in a
partying mood but evn the people that spent half the trip drunk still came away with some unbeleivable memories and some real food for thought
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
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Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
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Mood: Good if fishing
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This is slightly off subject but I had to pass it on. While in San Jose Del Cabo during some kind of festival I came across a young man in the square
with a yellow shirt and a donation can. He was collecting for the Mexican version of Teen Al Anon! I wasn't even aware there was a problem in this
area.
An hour of conversation with this young man and perusal of the literature he had was a real eye opener! It's not just the Gringo's on the Baja that
have drug/alcahol problems, it's also the mexican teenager. And apparently for the same reasons and in the US; peer pressure, lack of parental
supervision, and boredom. As a recovering alcoholic myself, this young man's story about how he ended up in the gutter and was rescued by this group
was very familiar. From what he told me, the problem among the teenagers in Baja Sur is rampart!
I can't remember the name of the group but if anyone runs across it, please donate as they don't get any support from the government or any church.
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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eetdrt88
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Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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Turtle,
you are actually quite accurate when you say that the problem among the teenagers is "rampant",one of my nieghbors is this teenage kid who was born
in cabo but has lived a large part of his life up here in so.cal,last summer he told me he was goin back to cabo to live with his mom......i saw him
about 5 months later up here and he looked pretty wrecked,the stories he told me of the drug problem(mainly crystal meth)in cabo among the local kids
were pretty bad....
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lizard lips
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
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It really is a shame to see someone who had just retired and moves to Baja and drinks themselves to death within a year or 2. I see it all the time.
I take a drink once in awhile and have done so for years but never will let the bottle dictate what will happen to me. Everyone is different. I
suggest smoke a joint if the stress gets to you too much!
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Yankee
No offense taken. I grew up in the back seat of a closed car with both of my parents sucking on cigarettes. I got the back of my old man's hand for
ANY lip. Who knows how much damage was done "second hand". I don't remember how many times I've had pneumonia. Watching his abusive alcoholism
helped me to know I REALLY didn't want to go down that road. With the right coaching, seeing the weak for what they are can make kids stronger.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Gypsy Jan
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Posts: 4275
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Mood: Depends on which way the wind is blowing
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The question was does Baja drive you to drink?
I believe the answer is, "No, Hell No!"
But, Baja is full of empty open spaces that probably force people from the noise and distraction filled north to confront themselves in the quiet.
If they don't want to talk to their essence, they drink to drown out the voices in their head.
Baja is also filled with indigenous drunks and druggies; the Mexican macho culture colliding with an inability to get a good paying job to support the
family and the resulting societal/monetary pressures are crushing.
I don't have any answers, but I do know that the CRREAD rehabilition program, based on strict AA Twelve-steps philosophy is helping more than 5,000
interns in forty-three facilities over Baja and central Mexico every day.
CRREAD operates on a wing and a prayer; there is no significant institutional or governmental support for them, but they will take in any legal
resident of Mexico, regardless of ability to pay.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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yankeeirishman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
No offense taken. I grew up in the back seat of a closed car with both of my parents sucking on cigarettes. I got the back of my old man's hand for
ANY lip. Who knows how much damage was done "second hand". I don't remember how many times I've had pneumonia. Watching his abusive alcoholism
helped me to know I REALLY didn't want to go down that road. With the right coaching, seeing the weak for what they are can make kids stronger.
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My hat is off to you Sir! Wise man of wise words. Oh...yeah...I know what that lip response was too 
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Mexitron
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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Well, personally, I don't drink nearly as much as I'd like too. But Baja seems to seduce me into it....luckily that's only 2 or 3 weeks a
year.....probably shouldn't move there though .....
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