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Bajadtodebone
Junior Nomad
Posts: 36
Registered: 1-8-2005
Location: Kingston Springs TN/Campo Gecko
Member Is Offline
Mood: baja dreamin'
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Local labor costs
We are in the initial planning phase of building a little casa in BOLA. I'm pondering the pros and cons of do-it -yerself and hiring someone to do it
for me. I have come to the conclusion I would like to do a combination of the two. This leaves me with the question: What is the going or expected
rate of pay for hiring local skilled workers (stone work, high work, or masonry work, etc.) to do portions of the construction and/or assist in tasks
that require more than this old man to accomplish? Can anyone shed any light on this? Commets (more pros and cons) about different approaches keeping
in mind I like to do construction projects, I am just to damn old to wrestle the big stuff around anymore.  
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Did you read Mike Humfreville's first L.A. Bay experience with hired help?
4baja (Steve) has some insight on this with his cabana construction at Gecko...
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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Yes..David has it...
Talk to others that are building in the area.
Look at FINISHED work.
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mcgyver
Nomad
Posts: 444
Registered: 8-22-2003
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NR.1 What ever you do get it in writing as to what and how much and be aware that if you order materials from a lumber yard make sure YOU pay for them
and that YOUR name is on the ticket and it is complete.
There is a thousand horrow stories you will hear! Just don't be foolish, you would not give Carte-Blanc to a contractor in the states so why would you
do it in Mexico? But people do all the time! And some of them get burned bad. If you want e-mail addresses of some of them that I know personaly PM me
as some of them are embarrased and would never admit on this forum that they were took!!!!
A little PS on this :Your friends from the states can not come down and help you build the house! You will be reported!
I do not know the labor cost in BOLA but in San Felipe they are approaching stateside prices. ( And you know who's fault that is.)
Another point! Find out where you would have to go to court (What County) if it became nessary? I think Esenada. In San Felipe its Mexicalli, but in
the southern areas its Ensenada.
In Mexico they have Delgados, The Govenor of the states of BCN & BCS are Delgados of the Presidente of Mexico. The mayor of Mexicalli for
instance is the Delgado of Mexicalli County which is larger than a lot of states and he is the Sub-Delgado to the Govenor, and it goes down to the
smallest village, there is always a Delgado, He maybe a Sub--Sub-Sub etc . but they all are reporting to some one. Ask lots of questions before hand.
Once you have a crew working, Leave them alone or you will be looking for trouble. If you are the Ugly American Type and going to hire these dumb
Mexicans to build me a house for $5.00 a day you are already in trouble.
Ok, I had my say , now lets here from those who built a million dollar mansion with tortilla wages and have no papers what so ever to even be in
Mexico.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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I think you're covering all the bases, mcgyver. Social Security has to be paid on all workers wages and the end responsability is the home owner.
If you hire a contractor, make sure the SS is paid.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
I think you're covering all the bases, mcgyver. Social Security has to be paid on all workers wages and the end responsability is the home owner.
If you hire a contractor, make sure the SS is paid.
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That is not correct!
If you hire a contractor it is his responsibility to hire and pay his workers, including SS.
And while it is true that you can't let your friends help to build your house, you can do any work (on your own property) you wish. Fact is,
without your permission, no one can even set foot on your property.
Where do you people get this stuff?
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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See thread titled
HOA's, Social Clubs and Groupsagringos!
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
I think you're covering all the bases, mcgyver. Social Security has to be paid on all workers wages and the end responsability is the home owner.
If you hire a contractor, make sure the SS is paid.
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That is not correct!
If you hire a contractor it is his responsibility to hire and pay his workers, including SS.
And while it is true that you can't let your friends help to build your house, you can do any work (on your own property) you wish. Fact is,
without your permission, no one can even set foot on your property.
Where do you people get this stuff? |
Just wait till your contractor doesn't pay the SS (even though it's his responsibility) and see what happens when the SS people show up at your door.
Lots of people around here in deep dodo because contractor didn't pay it. And they all ended up paying.
[Edited on 8-9-2005 by bajalou]
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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mcgyver
Nomad
Posts: 444
Registered: 8-22-2003
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Well I got lots of it from 1 friend in my Campo who did not get anything in writing and when presented with an inflated bill on his departure date
back to the states for the winter did not pay it and the court in Mexicalli awarded the contractor $8000 and I there for the whole thing but he was a
know it all too so he paid the $8000 + $850 fine for not having FM-3. I got cited for simply relaying an e-mail from him (the gringo) to the
contractor and damm near had to pay the $8000 my self so you guys can talk all that expert talk but I have walked where I speak, if you are involved
in something like this it will get you too! I never post anything on this forum that I do not know for a fact to be true and I have been missing from
this forum for months for the very reason that every time you post something someone attacts you or acuses you of outright lying so I will probably
not be back for another 6 months, most of it isnt woth the time it takes. Not to speak of another good friend who was deported and his total
investment of thousands forfeited + fine of $15,000. Another family who I did not know was given 45 minutes to load and leave a San Felipe Campo and
thats all last year so I don't know where you are but I see the same thing week after week and still the people pour in from California and Nevada and
beg someone to rip them off. And you can argue Mexican Law all you want but it is what ever the person enforcing it says it it is at that time. If you
want to take on the life time care of a injured worker not paying the SS or making damm sure it is paid is the way to go. bajaLou probably knows
better than I do because I try to stay out of LA south which is San Felipe these days. Just this past Saturday bI went to a moving sale and when I
asked where they where moving too they proudly told me that they were moving to Muledge, when I asked how long they had been going ther they said they
had never been there they made a deal over the internet and this realator was handeling everthing for them to move there and build.
When I asked waht was in the 2 Very large new cargo trailers sitting near by they said it was all there tools, windows ,doors appliances, special
hsrdware etc etc. What do you do then ? Tell them the truth?Let them drive up to the border thining theyb are just going to drive $50,000 worth of
stuff across? I am glad someone else took on that chore! Re minds me of Gernanicus, he emailed me and I gave him loads of info then He called my a
lier and said Baja was claen and did not have a garbbage problem that someone on this forum told him so!!! And also I was lying when I told him that
the Mexicans where not going to let him drive a 13 ton diesel dump truck across the border, but some one on this forum told him "No Problem" bring it
on down. I don't know if he did or not, maybe so.
ADIOS see you in another six months or so. bajalou see you soon!
BTW I never said you can not work on your own house but state side friends CAN NOT help you paid or unpaid, if someone complains you PAY.
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mcgyver
Nomad
Posts: 444
Registered: 8-22-2003
Member Is Offline
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Yes and I know I can not spell and especialy when I am PO and whats more I do not give a good S__T what you think!
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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Don 't go away again mcgyver, I really like your posts and had been wondering where you were. Like you, I share my personal experiences and those of
people I know personaly. If some don't want to believe - --- just gota remember "Everyone's entitled to his own stupid opinion" Can't change that
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Bajalero
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
Member Is Offline
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McGyver wrote
"Once you have a crew working, Leave them alone or you will be looking for trouble"
and
"And you can argue Mexican Law all you want but it is what ever the person enforcing it says it it is at that time."
Two very true statements!
--For bajadtodebone- a little example of actual construction cost
I had a septic tank built;
480 block @ .60 = 288.00 ( made by contractor)
10 sacks cement@ 10.00 = 100.00 (sold by contractor)
tot. 388.00
Bill was $1700.00
net = $1312.00
the job was "contracted" and later I was told by the laborer that he was payed $ 150.00 for a completed tank - and this guy put in 8-10 hr days for
seven days and humped . So , the orig. contractor made 1312- 150 = $ 1162 for basically nothing, not including his profit on materials.
I figure the laborer actually made $ 150/ (7days x 9 hrs) =
$ 2.38 per hour.
I later discussed with the laborer some more potential (private) work at much better wages . His nervousness over doing any thing without the blessing
of the local labor boss (basically fear for his safety) kept us from doing business together.
Ya pays and pays in Baja, but usually not to the most deserving individual. Now if you could find a contractor that does the work himself and pays his
own SS you might be able to save some money.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Another point of view
"Once you have a crew working, Leave them alone or you will be looking for trouble"
Having run crews down here personally, I recommend following the above idea ONLY if you have a contractor/foreman.
When you start trying to "save money" by eliminating the contractor and hiring his workers temporarily this is what happens.
1. The worker isn't experienced enough to actually know how to get things done efficiently or properly so you end up spending more in the long run
because of time involved or getting the work fixed. Material prices will go up because this worker will have lost respect with the ferreterias for
flaking on the contractor if the contractor is respected.
2. The contractor will be missing tools because the worker will not have enough of his own for your project.
3. The job will end up taking longer than planned no matter how hard the guy was working before or increase in pay he gets.
This is very common, especially in Baja where you are lucky to get a contractor with enough experience with modern construction techniques and tools
period.
One of my most common jobs down here was taking in a crew to fix others work. Come to think of it, the same applied in southern california as a
customer service manager for a developer.
I will stick to my one word of advice when this topic was discussed before.
Hire a foreman that is respected by the community. He will make your life a LOT easier.
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Bajadtodebone
Junior Nomad
Posts: 36
Registered: 1-8-2005
Location: Kingston Springs TN/Campo Gecko
Member Is Offline
Mood: baja dreamin'
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labor in baja
Wow!! OK guys thanks for the feedback. We even managed to stay on topic mostly. I appreaciate the info. So far from what I've read, and I'm sure it
is not enough, is that I probably need a freakin lawyer just to cover my ass(ets) if I have locals help me under hire. I have nothing but respect for
the people who's country I am going to call my first home and I don't want to make assumptions that could breed ill-will. I also don't want to make a
fedeale case out of the construction of a small partime home.
I used a father/son team to build the floor and walls for my storage shed and all worked out well. I suspect I can hire them again for more
cement/cinder block work and an occasional extra set of hands/muscles. I've seen a fair amount of construction in my neighborhood down there over the
past three years and I have yet to get the impression that anyone worries much about procedures. I could be missing something though.
Maybe it makes a difference that the land on which I am building is leased and not owned? In the end my landlord could end up owning whatever I
construct.
While I am at it, what is the legalities of bringing construction materials over the boarder? Two years ago I brought down all the materials for a
comp roof on a 12x11 shed without comment. ( An other trip they made me go to Otay mesa because they said I had to pay some kind of tax on an old
electric 1/3 yard cement mixer I was bringing down. Of course at OM I just drove through cause there was no one in sight except the line of autos for
import authorization. With no authority figures in attendance I just skidadled across and waited to hear the bullits flyin. What else could I do? )
I am now a fugative from justice
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Bajadtodebone
Junior Nomad
Posts: 36
Registered: 1-8-2005
Location: Kingston Springs TN/Campo Gecko
Member Is Offline
Mood: baja dreamin'
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labor in baja
Wow!! OK guys thanks for the feedback. We even managed to stay on topic mostly. I appreaciate the info. So far from what I've read, and I'm sure it
is not enough, is that I probably need a freakin lawyer just to cover my ass(ets) if I have locals help me under hire. I have nothing but respect for
the people who's country I am going to call my first home and I don't want to make assumptions that could breed ill-will. I also don't want to make a
fedeale case out of the construction of a small partime home.
I used a father/son team to build the floor and walls for my storage shed and all worked out well. I suspect I can hire them again for more
cement/cinder block work and an occasional extra set of hands/muscles. I've seen a fair amount of construction in my neighborhood down there over the
past three years and I have yet to get the impression that anyone worries much about procedures. I could be missing something though.
Maybe it makes a difference that the land on which I am building is leased and not owned? In the end my landlord could end up owning whatever I
construct.
While I am at it, what is the legalities of bringing construction materials over the boarder? Two years ago I brought down all the materials for a
comp roof on a 12x11 shed without comment. ( An other trip they made me go to Otay mesa because they said I had to pay some kind of tax on an old
electric 1/3 yard cement mixer I was bringing down. Of course at OM I just drove through cause there was no one in sight except the line of autos for
import authorization. With no authority figures in attendance I just skidadled across and waited to hear the bullits flyin. What else could I do? )
I am now a fugative from justice
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Bajadtodebone
Junior Nomad
Posts: 36
Registered: 1-8-2005
Location: Kingston Springs TN/Campo Gecko
Member Is Offline
Mood: baja dreamin'
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MH's experience with hired labor
Hey DK can you direct me to that posting? I always enjoy reading Mikes stories, especially when I am constipated
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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You answered your own question
"I used a father/son team to build the floor and walls for my storage shed and all worked out well. I suspect I can hire them again for more
cement/cinder block work and an occasional extra set of hands/muscles. "
As long as you are respected, and they are respected, you are much better off just dealing with them. There are places here in Rosarito that
require a licensed contractor to do the construction but if you or an architect do the plans, have them approved, you should have no problem with your
"proven" crew.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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You can build with your private crew but if you have the building permit which is necessary you will have to pay social security, this I know because
I built a casita that way. Three years later they came by with notice to pay. Everything here is computorized and all tied in, it may take time but I
don't think you can get away with anything, you shouldn't even try you surely wouldn't in the USA. this goes for all things and everyone.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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Just hire local builders directly, forget about going tru an american middleman, he will just take all your money and provide very little for the
added cost.
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rpleger
Super Nomad
Posts: 1087
Registered: 3-12-2005
Location: H. Mulegé, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Was good.
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Just call the local office of Halliburton.
Youre sure to get a fair and honest deal from them.
Richard on the Hill
*ABROAD*, adj. At war with savages and idiots. To be a Frenchman abroad is to
be miserable; to be an American abroad is to make others miserable.
-- Ambrose Bierce, _The Enlarged Devil\'s Dictionary_
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