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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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Loreto fishing and Netting
I always post a brief report on the allcoast Sportfishing site, www.allcoast.com and usually keep it very brief. This week's report needs to get out into the public so I have added it here today~
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Wednesday; 1 March, 2006 In a nutshell- The sardinas are still scarse. We've just entered a calm weather period thats expected to
last a few days. Make that a windy period now as of this morning.. There's good Yellowtail fishing waaay to the north off Isla San
Ildefonso. Captain Francisco Mu?oz invents new technique at landing Yellowtail off Punta La Cholla...By the way the entire La Cholla point is being
thouroughly netted for Yellowtail, big bummer.
Click here for full report http://bajabigfish.com/conv_report.html
 The boundries of the Loreto Marine Park with La Cholla identified. La Cholla is at the center of contraversy and where the
netting of Yellowtail is currently taking place.
27 February, 2006 Captain Francisco Mu?oz holds an egg sack from one of the Yellowtail caught off La Cholla on Monday. They are still turgid and
appear to have a few weeks of development left. "These fish are being netted away right before they have a chance to spawn and create more fish", says
Francisco
I apologize for not having better news about the fishing, but the truth needs to be addressed. Within our report you will find e-mails to the Marine
Park and the Loreto Bay Marine Park fund where you can voice your opinions. We will be adding a blog spot to our Marine Park page and we will be
announcing when the upcoming park management decisions meeting will take place. We are hoping to bring the sportfishing community together to make
beneficial changes in our favor. In my next report here, I will be making a couple announcements on positive changes that will take place with our
business. We're growing!
Thanks for checking in!
The Baja Big Fish Company
http://www.bajabigfish.com
Loreto, BCS MEXICO
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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thanks for the nice report Pam. keep them coming.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
We are hoping to bring the sportfishing community together to make beneficial changes in our favor.
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Thanks for the report, Pam. I have always appreciated that your reports tell it like it is.
Good luck with the conservation movement. I hope you get the results you seek.
Skipjack
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
Member Is Offline
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Thanks for fighting a bad situation...similar problems with nets in Estero Coyote..The by-catch (kill) is horrendous..
The future of the Mexicano's children is being sold at pennies a kilo...What's the answer???
Again, thanks. A brave decision on your part to jump into the fray.
Capt. George
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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richard nauman
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 10-1-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tranquilo
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Hey Pam - Thanks for keeping us posted. That is sad to hear they are netting that school of Jurel. I had a great day with Francisco chasing them
around in January. To the baja nomads that didn't see the report - me and a friend caught a flat calm day in January and Francisco found surface
boiling yellowtail at La Choola. We didn't have any sardinas so were unable to get them close enough to get them on flies. They were nice big fish. My
knees turned to butter when Francisco said they were world record size (for a fly rod) and he should know having guided multiple Jurel world records.
The day before we saw guys setting nets on the shallows SW of Coronado. Francsico said they had wrapped a large school of roosterfish prior to my
arrival. Many of the local capitans that I spoke with were unhappy about the situation.
There are people working on changing things. I used to think nothing would ever change in Baja regarding conservation but after the progress that the
Groupo Tortuguero de las Californias has made with Sea Turtle conservation I think it can be done for fisheries as well. A growing group of people is
forming and we hope to try to put together a meeting next year. I'll post information as I get it.
Anyone who wants to know more can send me an email or U2U.
Capt George - you should talk to Isidro Arce in Abreojos he's a good guy, and is one of the cooperativa members opposed to netting Estero Coyote.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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Butt Out!
Pam,
I wrote a letter as you requested and was told essentially to butt out. They state that their plan for the marine park includes the right of the
commercials to continue to net in the area. Here is the body of his response:
I appriceate your concerns about the park. However, as far as my park
rangers and other authirities inform me, the fishing activities that
are
carry on within the park, in especific on the yellowtail, are legal and
allowed this time of the year as stated in the management plan of
Loreto
marine park. This park was concibed to provide welfare not only to
visitors, or tourist, but to local communities to mantain their way of
living as far as their activities are within the law.
Thanks again for your concerns and we invite you to let us know any
ilegal activities and reporting them to PROFEPA, CONAPESCA, and us.
I sort of expected this. They treat our concerns about the fishery as a 'tourist' need, not something that helps them. We are the meddling tourists
only interested in our catch rate and not in the welfare of the Mexican people. Supporting the commercial endeavors, the argument goes, directly helps
the Mexican community. We, on the other hand, are selfish gringos out to meet own interests.
Pam, I'm afraid that writing as a concerned American citizen that doesn't even live in Baja has little value to these people.
Skipjack
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
Member Is Offline
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RN
Isidro is in a bind, as is most of the fishermen here . The decision to net comes
from Ensenada, they rule the roost and call the shots . If the fishermen
complain to loudly they'll find themselves mixing cement for a living .They need
to supply fish for the Samana Santa holiday and they will take it from wherever they can...
Money rules, money rules! Not much different up north in many of the same ways.....money, money, money... 
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9009
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Pam,
I wrote a letter as you requested and was told essentially to butt out. They state that their plan for the marine park includes the right of the
commercials to continue to net in the area. Here is the body of his response:
I appriceate your concerns about the park. However, as far as my park
rangers and other authirities inform me, the fishing activities that
are
carry on within the park, in especific on the yellowtail, are legal and
allowed this time of the year as stated in the management plan of
Loreto
marine park. This park was concibed to provide welfare not only to
visitors, or tourist, but to local communities to mantain their way of
living as far as their activities are within the law.
Thanks again for your concerns and we invite you to let us know any
ilegal activities and reporting them to PROFEPA, CONAPESCA, and us.
I sort of expected this. They treat our concerns about the fishery as a 'tourist' need, not something that helps them. We are the meddling tourists
only interested in our catch rate and not in the welfare of the Mexican people. Supporting the commercial endeavors, the argument goes, directly helps
the Mexican community. We, on the other hand, are selfish gringos out to meet own interests.
Pam, I'm afraid that writing as a concerned American citizen that doesn't even live in Baja has little value to these people.
Skipjack |
Amazing! Park Rangers that condone the netting of the YT at the time of the spawn. What short-sightedness!
Is this really the principles the Marine Park was founded on?
Thanks for informing us, Joe.
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
Member Is Offline
Mood: Optimistic
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Then check islands offshore Pacific Panama...incredible and reminds one of Baja in the early 70's when you had to really want to get there...you had
to prepare and work at the adventure. Nowadays, Baja affords an easy fishing trip...a place to revisit old times. Can't say much about the rules
and regs...it is, after all, Mexico, with Mexican laws. If we want to spend time here, we will comply.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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This reminds me of the times when we first 'discovered' Loreto area. We camped at Rattlesnake Beach (Puerto Escondido) every winter for about nine
years. Can remember almost every night listening all night to the drumming sounds of diesels on the "long liners" working the islands. At least that
isn't happening now that I'm aware of. If incorrect. Someone please advise. This is a subject that makes me think that long before we are tourist
started coming down here, the mexican fishermen were providing for their families in their pangas. Then comes along, tourist fishermen. Providing
jobs as 'guides'. A new industry for the locals has been started. But for those who choose their 'old tradition' of netting, and selling
commercially, I do 'feel' for them. I know I'm still a tourist, because I go home every summer, and I don't fish like I used to when I first came
here. I could support their netting, but absolutely disagree with their timing during their spawning season. And absolutely support the refusal of
long lining & large netting boats. Without the park, where would we be today with number of fish decreasing every year anyway. Viva la
fisheries, but OUT OF THE PARK!!!!! And Pam. I do support the businesses such as your providing.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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Economic reasons for netting visited:
OK so netting stimulates the economy here:
I can buy one kilo of fresh Yellowtail down the street from my shop for 60 pesos. Lets say that one Yellowtail weighs 30 pounds and fillets translate
to 50% of that fish:
40-60 pesos, I'll figure on the high end = 6 USD
15 pounds * 6 USD = $90.00 USD per fish
keep in mind that the fishermen sold that fish for less than $8USD! (prior to filleting) nice markup and to one business that is probably not even
from Loreto (most of the commercials are based in BCN or La Paz)
Now consider this:
Two fishermen come to Loreto and fish for two days. Lets say that they catch four fish over these two days. They spend the following:
They stay at a midrange local Hotel, lets say Hotel La Pinta. Apart from their airline fares they spend~
$20 each on transportation to and from the airport
$300 for the three nights in one standard room
$450 in charter expenses
$46 in Mex fishing permits
$8 in Marine Park permit fees
$100 combined per day in meals, tips, beverages ($300)
$150 each in souveniers...
(these are very conservative figures)
Total: $1,444.00 USD
Each fish is worth $361.00 USD
..of which is spread out over at least 7 different LOCAL businesses (and their employees) and three government agencies (PESCA, Marine Park,
Hacienda).
Keep in mind that Loreto has ONE industry and that is tourism. Real Estate is the other major industry that is closing in fast on the tourism but
without tourism the value of the real estate would be much reduced as many buyers are investing hoping to rent out their properties.
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richard nauman
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 10-1-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tranquilo
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Pam - great analysis. It would be valuable to extend it in a more formal way. Don't forget Bait for 2 days = $40! Plus all that beer and Tequila!!!
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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"This park was concibed to provide welfare not only to
visitors, or tourist, but to local communities to mantain their way of
living as far as their activities are within the law."
I suspect that the park was conceived largely to evict out-of-area, large scale commercial fishing operations that were taking fish that local people
thought were "theirs." So the management plan will still allow destructive fishing, just as long as it is local fishermen who do it.
I too have been told that there would be a revision of the management plan every five years and one would be this year. And I plan on commenting.
So far, as a "resident tourist" I see no benefit or "welfare" from the marine park. Makes no difference to me if the fishery is destroyed by locals or
people from Guaymas or Japan.
edit:
I hear Agundez (the governor) came through with 6 new four-stroke outboards for some lucky local fishermen...at a cost to those fishermen of about
30,000 MN. That's about 3 grand for a 10-12 thousand dollar motor. And many of the captains are upgrading to larger pangas (I have heard there are
subsidies available?); there are some really good deals on their older boats. So, there is great potential for increased numbers of commercial
fishermen.
The current BCS government is big on commercial exploitation of the fishery.
[Edited on 3-7-2006 by Don Alley]
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Mr. Alley
Tell us more about the current BCS government being big on commercial exploitation of the fishery. By commercial fishing do you mean pangas or
trawlers/seiners? How did you come by that information?
Thanks
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Mr. Alley
Tell us more about the current BCS government being big on commercial exploitation of the fishery. By commercial fishing do you mean pangas or
trawlers/seiners? How did you come by that information?
Thanks |
By commercial fishing I mean the current local panga-based fishing, which includes netting and hook and line. I have heard from local fishermen and
Mexican neighbors that the previous government administration lobbied the marine park to allow this commercial fishing to continue: "You can ban
commercial fishing in the park when you find jobs for these people." The current Agundez regime is of the same political party and has provided
funding to help pay for boats and motors.
A panga salesman with several new pangas on display here in Loreto, told me that the government was subsidizing part of the cost for local fishermen,
sport or commercial. Motor subsidies were available too; today a neighbor who is well versed in local politics told me that six motors were just made
available, and, as is a common practice, a politician took credit, in this case Agundez.
It's a small town and I don't want to drag people-friends and neighbors-into public discussions by name. I am not a journalist and they are not news
sources. You can simply file it all as opinion or gossip. 
Bottom line:
1.There are many nets in the water here. I see them, consider it an eyewitness report.
2. I have friends who rely on tourist sport fishermen for a living. So I don't like to post reports of poor fishing all over the internet. But there's
a lot of poor fishing here. When it's good, it often involves trips far outside the park, like long trips to Pulpito and Isla Ildefonso. Go to Pam's
site and read the whole report. The nets are devastating the local fishery.
3. The nets IN A MARINE PARK are declared LEGAL. That's a pretty good indication of government policy , imo.
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msawin
Nomad
Posts: 371
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: Grass Valley,Ca / Tripui
Member Is Offline
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Hey Pam,
Do you think that we can do any thing here in the States to help?
Do you think any pressure with Vagabondos or the like will help.
We need to keep the fisherman coming down. I know last year with the low fish results a lot of charters where dropped. A lot of capitans missed
income.
Please give us a post of any needs.......Martin-o 1-week
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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Richard I forgot all about the bait and the tequilia!
Skeet:
"Pam How long has it been since the you have seen the Navy patrol boat anchored out Front.?"
-Do you mean the large boat, if so about a year ago when Pres Fox was supposed to innagurate the Pemex at Pto Escondido, but I'm talking visible from
the town not offshore visible to the pangueros.
How long has it been since one of your Pangas has been Boarded and Searched, and Lic. and IDs checked?
-boarded out to sea last July, 2005 licenses and ID's of anglers and captain were checked
How long has it been since there was a Park Ranger at the Boat Ramp checking Fish Limits?
-two weeks ago
Don is right about the subsidies and the credit the politicos take. They definately don't believe in "if you give a man to fish he can eat for a day,
if you teach a man to fish he can eat for life" concept.
I especially love the "find them jobs". This is partially the fault of the government who chooses not to educate the people and the people for not
demanding they be educated. I see it as the "you gotta change and evolve with the times and environment or you'll never survive" concept.
So shall I bring coffee or beer to the next park management revisions meeting?
I don't mean to scre folks away from the poor fishing we currently have within the park. Heck, outside the park its getting pretty good again. But
if Ijust need to know what our playing field will be like in the future then I can plan on not fishing during February and March or when the damn nets
are out. Of course this also means that folks I usually employee during these times, won't be employed, vicious cycle, no?
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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YES!
| Quote: | Originally posted by msawin
Hey Pam,
Do you think that we can do any thing here in the States to help?
Do you think any pressure with Vagabondos or the like will help.
We need to keep the fisherman coming down. I know last year with the low fish results a lot of charters where dropped. A lot of capitans missed
income.
Please give us a post of any needs.......Martin-o 1-week |
Remember right after the establishment of the Park the VAgs gave them a donation. They should be made aware of where that went and reconsider future
donations and let the park know why they are reconsidering. That's how you can help from up there. Like I said in my report, there are dozens of
donors who fund it and I will post them soon. Your job is to contact them and make them aware of what their funding does (or doesn't).
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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Let the YT spawn out
Allowing netting of spawning yellowtail is a poor fisheries management practice. It's short sighted. It hurts both the commercial fishery and sport
fishery in the long run. By removing the spawn from a fish stock you're destroying it's future.
The laws permitting this in that marine park should be changed. It's not just the netting that's the issue, it's the netting of the spawners. The
commercial pangueros need to be convinced that such a ban is in their very own interest.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9009
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Allowing netting of spawning yellowtail is a poor fisheries management practice. It's short sighted. It hurts both the commercial fishery and sport
fishery in the long run. By removing the spawn from a fish stock you're destroying it's future.
The laws permitting this in that marine park should be changed. It's not just the netting that's the issue, it's the netting of the spawners. The
commercial pangueros need to be convinced that such a ban is in their very own interest. |
Of course we all know that, Joe, and I expect that Pam will push for that at the meetings.
Still, the economics of feeding a family NOW are hard to ignore for the commercial pangueros.
It's more than a little ironic that the Mexican government would give such large subsidies on 4 stroke engines; a subsidy that will only hasten the
loss of their jobs if they continue such fishing practices. The subsidy would easily feed the families for quite a few years during the actual spawn.
This is the usual result when politicians get involved....never seems to matter what country. Shortsighted gains at the expense of the long term good.
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