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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Here's an end of trip report that's not so nice, take it for what you will.
-----it is dangerous stuff. Almost got me one Fall in Colorado. Creeps up on you and you don't even recognize it unless you know what the symptoms
are.
Bad scene!!!!
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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We lost a guy in Dunsmuir this past week of cold weather.
Suspicion of alcohol abuse, found on a sidewalk in front of a cafe. You sure can't take it lightly.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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With every needless death-by-politics, we all lose a piece of our souls.
[Edited on 3-19-2006 by Paula]
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bajabound2005
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2760
Registered: 10-15-2005
Location: Punta Banda, BCN
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Mood: words cannot describe...
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Our take? There should be no border...well, maybe a border so you know when you've crossed, but no walls, no fences, no immigration, no
checkpoints....Anyone seen the movie "A Day Without A Mexican"?
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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Should Mexico have a southern border with Central America? Or an inter-oceanic border with China? There are many good people all over the world who
could benefit from moving from their desparately poor situation to a richer country like Mexico.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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Why has the United States become so wealthy and so powerful in such a short period of time?
Immigration and the mixing of blood....the most ambitious and hard working people, from all points of the globe, looking for a better life.
How many Mexicans a year take that risk illegally crossing our border, die in the process? I don't think they're stealing too many jobs from our
populace. I don't look at them as criminals per se, they are just trying to improve the standard of living for their families in the best way they
can....
Would you not do the same for your children?
Every Mexican that dies in an attempt to get to the U.S. to improve their lot in life, is in itself a crime. These are our neighbors, can't we do
better?
There's a powerful movement to push Mexico into becoming another communist state....the pressure (and money) are coming from Central America/Cuba etc.
Will this be a better situation? Look at the lead in the upcoming presidential race!
All the monies spent in the Far East would be, perhaps, better spent aiding our next door neighbors to the south. Ah, but alas, peaceful aide to a
neighboring country does not, immediately, increase the profit margin for our wealthiest of Corporations.....
I will now step down from the soapbox and wish you all a very Happy Sunday.
Capt. George
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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TMW
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Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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Having an open border is a foolish ideal with too many extreme possibilities. If you want a guess worker program fine, get it started. To hand over
billions in aid with no strings is also foolish. To have strings attached labels us as interfering. If the Mexicans want a commie type government
that's for them to decide for better or worse.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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rather spend my tax dollars in Mexico then in Iraq causing more death and distruction on both sides...it's all about more MONEY to be made.
slowly the death count for our young soldiers climbs....as in Nam, if nobody you know taking the brunt...in all goes on our back burners....
No open border but allow immigration for qualifying Mexicanos....who once owned California, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico??? Billions on war? How
about billions on peace? Sorry, no big profits there!
Capt George : been a right wing republican most of my life....getting harder and harder with each passing day...
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
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Mood: mellow
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| Quote: | | Capt George : been a right wing republican most of my life....getting harder and harder with each passing day... |
Make room for another one Captain.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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People dying------this is new??
Without Politicians there is no democratic government.
Without any government there are no laws.
Without any laws there is chaos, and barbarism----BECAUSE THERE ARE ALWAYS THOSE AMONG US WHO WANT IT THAT WAY, and there always will be.
People make choices, and some die because of those choices. Politicians make mistakes. What else is new? Each individual is responsible for their own
choices, and the consequenses of those choices.
I find it difficult to lose sleep over dozens dying in the desert as a result of decisions that they made. Should we lose sleep over the 10's of
thousands dying on the hyways because of choices that they made? Do you???-----all knew the risks before they embarked, or they should----there is
ample info available. Shall we do away with speed limits, or go back to 55mph? Nothing works perfectly. The border situation has remained in
stalemate for decades because people will not sit down and solve the problem------they would apparently rather wring their hands in dismay, or ignor
the problem, or both.
I say enforce the laws, (all of them---duh!!), impliment "guest worker programs", gain physical control of the borders, and get on with our business.
Just do it!!!
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bajabound2005
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2760
Registered: 10-15-2005
Location: Punta Banda, BCN
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Mood: words cannot describe...
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by TW If you want a guess worker program fine, get it started. |
Gotta love those "guess" workers programs!
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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Can it be that some of us just have'nt put a human face to this issue? To be able to dismiss the deaths of people who are just doing what they can to
survive and make a living seems heartless. The work of mankind is to try to get it all right, and never to stop trying, unless by some miracle we
ever actually do it.
Crossing Over: A Mexican Family on the Migrant Trail, by Ruben Martinez, published by Henry Holt and Company in 2001 is an excellent book on
this issue. Take a look at it on amazon.com, or at a bookstore-- it is availble in paperback. And it is good reading-- you will enjoy it!
Happy March 19 to you all-- especially Captain George and Vandenberg!
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bajabound2005
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2760
Registered: 10-15-2005
Location: Punta Banda, BCN
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Mood: words cannot describe...
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Have you see the movie, A Day Without A Mexican? It might open some eyes out there.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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"---results staring them in their faces----"
-----You are right, Soulpatch, of course, but that is part of the problem------those that deal directly with the "bodies" sometimes only get to see
the "trees" and lose sight of the "forest", in my opinion. Each of us in only capable of rationally handling so much "reality" before we lose our
objectivity------that is "heart", I suppose.
I worked the border in a LE position for 13 years, and that sure shaped my opinions at the time----I saw lots of bodies. Now, I have been away from
the border for 20 years, and I have a different perspective------don't really know which one is right, but probably a combination of both.
But we have to do something-----the present situation is really out of control, in my opinion, and is not good for the Country.
Barry
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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Guest worker program...a corporate "dream workforce." Use 'em, then send them away. You don't have to worry about them needing retirement plans, or
long-term health insurance. You don't have to worry that they may someday be voters. But of course government will collect taxes on their earnings.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bancoduo
Remember the John Birch society. Everyone thought they were right wing nuts. It seems now they were right on predicting the future of this country.
google it. |
Yeah, right. I want some of what you're smoking. 
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Questions
This entire subject has me very conflicted as it has for the 40+ years. Just the concept of borders is one that we may ponder over forever and reach
no conclusion. The only thing that I know for sure is that borders have always existed between people, society?s and civilizations. AND, they have
always been stoutly defended by those civilizations which have continued to exist and prosper.
When Americans started to cross this continent many Indian tribes took exception to our crossing their borders?they didn?t seem to even want
neighboring tribes moving into their territory. No solid lines painted on the ground but everyone knew and understood that there was a very real
danger in crossing over those borders. Our pioneers had no doubt that on any given day they would have to circle the wagons and that some of them
would die before they got?to wherever?they were going. When the Donner Party entered California they were breaking into someone else?s territory?the
only thing different from today is that the Border Patrol was not hanging around trying to rescue them. How many of these same pioneers were just
people seeking a better life for their families. No one seemed to much care when they perished in rather large numbers trying to cross the western
deserts.
I posted this statement by Pio Pico a while back on this forum and I was honestly surprised that very few seemed to either understand or care about
it?Pio Pico, last Mexican Governor of Alta California.....................................
?What are we to do then? Shall we remain supine, while these daring strangers are overrunning our fertile plains, and gradually outnumbering and
displacing us? Shall these incursions go on unchecked, until we shall become strangers in our own land?"
What it tells me is that the Mexicans did little or nothing to even attempt to stop the hordes of Americans who were overrunning their
?borders?.(Perhaps there was really nothing they could have done) Sadly, Pico was exactly right?as I believe that I said before?borders must be
defended by civilizations or they will perish as the Mexicans, as a civilization, did in the southwest. And as have all civilizations since recorded
history. A few such as Rome continued to exist after failing to staunch the flow of foreigners across their borders?but they became much less
important and vastly different civilizations in the process.
It seems to me that most successful country?s and civilizations have ?controlled? the influx of foreigners, much as America has done, by selectively
controlling who would be allowed in and in what numbers. Exceptions have always been made in the cases when the civilization has determined that a
person or a group of people would vastly benefit the host nation.
I would ask a few questions here. As a long time Republican I have quit supporting the current administration because they will not defend our
borders (not because I dislike Mexicans?I love most of them) but because as a student of history I know what will occur if we do not control our
borders. I should also say that I do not have any requirement to earn money or support a family so my opinion of the jobs lost in America because of
the uncontrolled influx of people across our border or the outsourcing of job elsewhere does not impact me.
What do the young people of America think about how ?their? future will be effected by illegal aliens ?I can tell you what my grandkids think when
they can?t even get a hamburger flipping entry level job because they can?t speak Spanish in their own country.
Why is it that the Mexican Government refuses to provide meaningful jobs for it?s own citizens?in a country that now has more natural resources than
we do. Why is it that this same government (and many other people) believe that the United States should provide, jobs, hospitals, etc for Mexico's
own marginal citizens?at the same time rich Mexicans are buying up American companies right and left.
How many of you honestly believe that the illegal Mexicans are taking only the lowest level jobs in our country?
Why should Mexicans be forced to leave their homeland to find jobs and then send a huge percentage of their money back to their relatives who can not
support themselves?
How many of you understand that the Mexican style politics and government are already being followed at the city, county, and state governments in
California and elsewhere in the United States?
When this take over is completed where will the poor Mexicans go then?
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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You have it exactly right, Bernie-----
----and Don Alley: your definition of "guest worker program" sounds reasonably accurate to me-----So?????
What is the problem??? This IS a Capitalist society, not a Socialist society. Would you have it some other way??
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bajabound2005
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2760
Registered: 10-15-2005
Location: Punta Banda, BCN
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Mood: words cannot describe...
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Here's a possibility: why don't we treat the Mexicans the same way we do the Canadians? The last time I was in Niagara Falls, I didn't recall seeing
something that makes the old Berlin Wall (which I also saw) look like one surrounding a Beverly Hills garden. Give our southern neighbors a break. To
the best of my understanding, the only threat they pose to us is taking the crappy jobs that few gringos will line up for. Geez, these are just people
with a lot of pride and loyalty whom history has unfortunately relegated to a less advantageous position, probably much the same as we'll be when
China and India really get cranked up.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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bajabound2005----------
Because comparing Canada with Mexico is like comparing apples and oranges-------somewhere between 10 and 20 million (we don't even know how many)
Latin immigrants are in the USA ILLEGALLY right NOW, and they continue to come. The key word here is ILLEGALLY----they have broken the laws of the
USA, and we are just as much at fault as they are as we are not even enforcing our laws, for the most part. What is the point of having laws??? What
do we expect??
We NEED immigrants, for lots of reasons, not the least which is our tradition to except them, but they should be LEGAL.
I won't even address smuggling, and other criminal enterprises that are satelite to ILLEGAL immigrants, and the porosity of our borders, nor the other
very valid points that other "posters" have brought up in this thread.
I believe we HAVE a problem, and it has been with us a long, long time, and we need to address it NOW. And those that don't seem to realize it, or
care, make me very nervous.
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