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Lee
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Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Why are Mexicans so happy?
http://thehappinessshow.com/HappiestCountries.htm
According to this survey, Mexico ranks #2 in two categories around happiness. Under the second category of ''Subjective Happiness," the US came in
15th.
I can't vouched for the validity of the survey but believe the numbers might be close.
Think it was Skeet who said recently that the N.Americanos and Candians around La Paz/Loreto, appeared more unhappy than the Mexicans down there.
That's been my impression. I always think that the N.Amer/Candians are stressed and the Mex deal with their stress in a different way. There's
definitely a cultural thing going on.
Reminds me of a story I heard awhile back:
A Mex woman from a small village somewhere heads up to L.A., goes to school, becomes a lawyer, makes alot of money, and goes back home to visit.
She does back and forth and does this for awhile and eventually someone close to her notices she's spending more and more time at home and they ask
her about it.
"Carmelita? You go up North, make alot of money, have a nice job, but you come back here alot. Why is that?
"Well, up North, they have alot of money, but no time. Down here, we have alot of time but no money. I like it here better.""
Forgive the telling of this story if I've skewered it. I like this story. I know it's not that simple, but it makes a statement.
Any happier campers here who are (more?) happy down South?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Bob and jane
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cultural differences
I'm going to make some over-generalizations on why Mexicans tend to be happier than people from the US. We have some big cultural differences, which
I think everyone has noticed.
The Mexicans, as a society, tend to believe in fate. As Doris Day used to sing, "Que sera, sera. Whatever will be, will be. The future's not ours
to see. Que sera, sera." If you are not in control of your future, why worry about it? They don't worry about things over which they believe they
have no control. In the US, we believe that our future is in our hands. What we get in life is in direct proportion to what we put into it.
A corollary to that is the belief in the US in the importance of hard work. We get that from our Puritanical ancestors. Hard work is a virtue, sloth
is a sin. We had a friend here in Mexico whose business was shut down for months while the city beautified his street. "Omigosh," we said, "that
must have been awful." "Well," he replied, "I didn't have to work." In the US a businessman would be in a rage. Here, they tend to shrug their
shoulders. What can I do?
A corollary to THAT is that Mexicans take siestas. People from the US think sleep is for sissies.
Most people in Mexico don't strive to keep up with the Joneses. Food on the table, a cerveza now and then, family and good friends. All is well.
People from the US believe that more is better. If the economy isn't growing, if the hometown isn't growing, if the businesses aren't
growing--something is wrong! My nephew asked me once what the secret to early retirement was. I said two words: want less. (Maybe I'm part way to
being Mexican. I hope so.) In the US we are always looking over our shoulders to see if someone is catching up, if someone might be doing better.
Of course, there is a downside to happiness and contentment--at least in the view of most people from the US. A country with a happy and content
population will probably never be a super power or have the respect of the "industrialized nations" of the world. Those happy, contented populations
might even be at risk of intrusion from the more driven, less happy people in other countries.
So, happiness and contentment? Or superpower status and a luxurious (comparitively) lifestyle?
Maybe we can't have it both ways.
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movinguy
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Location: Chula Vista, CA and Tijuana, MX
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You are right about fate. When it comes to things like environmental issues, overfishing, etc. it is hard to make headway sometimes because many
believe that if they take care of themselves and their families, God will take care of everything else. And if you're poor, that's a reasonable
outlook on life.
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Summanus
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In our experiences, we have met plenty of stressed-out Americans and plenty of stressed-out Mexicans... but far more laid-back happy ones...because we
seek those people out. Who wastes time with grumps wherever you are? So it goes around the world. We can only assume that horses of a feather
don't necessarily flock together.
I would think that all nations have some contentment and happiness...even Nigeria! Very odd to us that this poll selected that tumultuous nation to
be thee most happy place on earth....hmm, strange choice indeed. Having traveled to many African nations, I doubt we would venture there without an
armed bodygaurd! If being 'happy' means a male's feelings only, then I guess it qualifies...women there are pretty much slaves.
We have found that happy people are just 'themselves' the world over...one nation is not necessarily more 'happy' than another...unique individuals
yes, nations no. From Siberia to Tierra del Fuego locals will normally present themselves to foreigners in a far different way than to their
lifelong neighbors. It is up to you to find the 'happy' ones. A brother lived a few years in Moscow, Russia after it opened up to Westeners. He
found it to be one of the friendliest places on earth...for him...because he sought out 'happy' people, then married one.
Baja is certainly one of the great 'happy' places we have been..but I hope we brought some of that happiness with us.
YOU are the mirror of your friends...wherever you travel.
Summanus....ancient Roman Nightly Thunder God. He liked refrieds too.
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Iflyfish
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Registered: 10-17-2006
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Lee said, "Think it was Skeet who said recently that the N.Americanos and Candians around La Paz/Loreto, appeared more unhappy than the Mexicans down
there.
That's been my impression. I always think that the N.Amer/Candians are stressed and the Mex deal with their stress in a different way. There's
definitely a cultural thing going on."
I have traveled in Mexico over the past forty years. I have been to most of the states in Mexico. This does not make me an expert on Mexico and it is
with humility that I make the following observations. One must always be careful when making cultural generalizations. There are always exceptions to
the rule and exceptions that define the rules.
A Mexican friend said this to me, Ustedos Del Norte es por mi denero, Mexico es por mi corizone. Please forgive my spelling and grammar. You get the
point.
When Anthropologists go to "primitive" cultures and ask people, "who are you?" They reply "we are the human beings". When asked who the people that
are living over the hill are, they say, "these are not humans". It seems all cultures are ethnocentric. I am not an expert on any culture, even my
own. My eyes are glazed with ethnocentricity. I cannot see the bone in my own nose.
When inquiring further with the question "who are you?" most people in most cultures tell you of their kinship bonds. "I am .........son of .......,
daughter of.......
In the USofA when asked, "who are you?" people report the work they do i.e. I am a student, teacher, lawyer, plumber etc.
Mexico is about FAMILY. Most people are still very much part of their extended family network and their identity is there. They know who they are,
where they are, and how they fit. They know the roles they play and there is a deep security and satisfaction with that. People in Mexico, and I know
there are exceptions, work to live, not live to work. Families provide a safety net that most of us in the USofA do not have. We must take care of
ourselves. We are tribes of one.
In the USofA it generally takes two working parents to support a family. Thank you Viet Nam, union busting etc. This takes parents away from their
children.
Now that the USofA is primarily urban, the ties to the family farm of generations ago are broken, as Agribusiness has taken over. There is no there to
go back to. Suburban life in the USofA is alienated with neighbors not knowing who lives next door. Many different cultures live in the same
neighborhood. Often my neighbor, who is from East India, has lights hanging from his eaves, flower petals on his stoop, and I have no idea why. We do
not share the same experience of being in the world. I like them very much, I ask about what he is celebrating, but I can only intellectually grasp
the concept, never the experience. I can never get in my gut the feeling he is having as they build the flower petal mandala on his stoop. As an
outsider, I am disconnected from his experience. I will never know the joy of Rama or whomever it is that is making their appearance at his door.
In my lifetime in the USofA we have seen the death of Halloween. Parents here increasingly feel a need to protect their children from "strangers.
Contrast this with the wonderful experiences recently posted on this list by Eli and others as they visit with their departed family.
Mexicans share a rich context of social activity that binds them together in shared celebration. Saints days, fiestas, holidays dominate the life and
time of Mexicans. I know there are exceptions. However, this is the rule. Mexicans are pre occupied with the NOW and the next family function, not
with the next paycheck and quarterly report, car payment etc. Since people of the USofA identify with their work, they are focused on production and
competition. People in the USofA make major life decisions based upon whether or not they will have health insurance. Health Care is a right in
Mexico. Tortillas and beans are subsidized so even the most poor can survive.
Mexicans and I know there are exceptions, leave each other alone. Ne Modo? There is a freedom in Mexico that we all experience when we are there.
Mexicans in the main will not hassle you unless you are seriously out of bounds. Live and let live is the ethos. Ever met a "politically correct
Mexican?" We both love and are exasperated with the laze faire attitudes of Mexicans, Ne Modo! Buildings are attached to the electric grid and the
ground wire isn't connected. Ne Modo!, An act of God.
I once watched an auto accident on the Reforma in Mexico City. I was watching from my hotel window, thinking about the Indi 500 when two cars crashed
into each other. There was significant damage to both cars. The drivers got out, walked around their cars, both shrugged, put their palms up in the
air, got back into their cars, and drove away.
I recently read a post on this list from someone living in a remote area that was flooded. This poster, I am sorry that I forget their name, reflected
upon how everyone pitched in and helped each other. They also reflected upon how in the USofA people look to the government to solve problems. This is
a fundamental difference. I believe that most people in the USofA are kind, generous and want to be helpful. The point is not that people in the USofA
are unkind or lack generosity or compassion. I see examples of it all the time. When human beings are massed together in urban environments, the
connections between them are simply not as intimate as in rural areas where every one knows each other and thereby has some responsibility for the
"other. This used to be less the case when immigrants to the USofA settled in distinct communities where cultural and ethnic identity was maintained.
I think that it is also significant that Mexico is a conquered nation. Mexican history is one of subjugation since the time of the Aztecs. For many
Mexicans things have not changed much since those times. Never had much and don't expect much. Don't stand out too much or either something will be
expected from you or you will make a mistake and suffer the dire consequences. In that situation, it is not wise to intervene or take charge of or to
rock the boat. Ne Modo!, An act of God!
I have rambled on.
I love Mexico and some of the best, magical, transcendent experiences in my life have happened there. I also love the USofA. I really like putting a
glass under the faucet and drinking the water without worrying about some nasty bug. I often think I am living in Rome, like and emperor, where all of
the consumer goods in the world are available for me. I also am faced with choices, choices, choices, always choices. Of the fifteen olive oils on the
shelf, which one do I choose? In a typical Mexican Tiende I am lucky to find one and happy to find it.
I too am interested in others reflections on this topic. Thanks for posting.
Iflyfish
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Summanus
YOU are the mirror of your friends...wherever you travel. |
Very true, I think we are happy if we look for it. Depends on what we focus, that is what we see. And how we judge it.
It was Aristoteles who sayed " not the event as such is what makes us feel a certain way, it's how we judge it"
Also called RE-FRAMING in the therapeutic jargon.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Mexicans and the Queen
Mexicans express happiness differently than we do. They are far more emotional than most of us. We are a more anal society.
Mexicans party more and longer than we do. Their fiestas often go through the night. On the other hand at funerals they tend to go to pieces. The
women sometimes need to be carried off.
We tend to hold things in. Anyone see the new film 'The Queen'? It's about queen Elizabeth. In it she befriends this huge stag elk. She looks forward
to it on her morning walks. One day she hears that the grand animal has been shot. She asks to see it and comes into a room where the beast is hanging
from the ceiling without a head. The head is nearby and the eyes still shine as they did on her walks. Internally, the queen is devastated by the
sight. Her face, however, show no emotion. She turns to the man: "Congragulations! Great shot Sir <whatever>".
We're not like that totally. But there is a lot of that in us.
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
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Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
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I, personally, find it much easier to be happy when down south. I'm not sure if it is because I do not have to go to work ( I enjoy my job) or
because my comitments are less. Having said that, even though during my last visit, I was in the middle of a constrution zone, waiting daily for
workers who did not show up, preparing for a potential hurricane, standed in town due to flooding,... I sang more, (could it be the tequila:lol slept better, and even found myself dancing ... by myself!!!
Remember, when in Mexico, yes may be no and no may be
maybe!
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jorgie
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Location: on another road,again
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Mood: on the road....again,again
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A very, very good thread......Carmelita got it right
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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As for me. Happier in Mexico. Sure, part of it is being away from work (which I don't enjoy). The balance though is being 65 miles from the nearest
telephone. Not having a TV to drag me like a pitiful addict to its screen. Being the department of "water and power" as my wife says, keeps me
occupied with my basic needs. Looking forward to the dying of the wind so I can fish and refill my fridge. Continuing to learn my second language
and cultivating my friendships with my hosts. Making sure my boat will get us home safely from the sea. Living SO much closer to the earth.
We are invariably depressed by crossing the border northbound. Usually first by being treated like criminals by the public servants in the kiosk, then
by have to drive for hour and hours and hours to get through one continuous city of people who suddenly appear to us to be incredibly spoiled. Where
conspicuous consumption is a way of life.
Where most people couldn't grow a tomato if their lives depended on it.
I'm conflicted. I'd love to see my Mexican friends have more, and I'd really love to see my paisanos learn to need less.
Mi dos centavos
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
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Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
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SO right on vgabndo!!!!
Remember, when in Mexico, yes may be no and no may be
maybe!
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
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Invariably someone will come along and find this thread to be 'unamerican'. And I partly agree with them.
No, not that these observations are unamerican. But it seems that all of this praise isn't entirely fair. Fatalism isn't the great philosophical
virtue it's made out to be. It's the result of living in a third world country where your options are limited. If an American moves to Mexico he
starts to develop their values. And when a Mexican moves to the US he too becomes a workaholic. It's the environment, not the people.
And then there's the proverbial 'manana' answer when it's time to deliver. I guess you can look at it as a cup being half full. An attitude of not
taking anything too seriously. But I really see it more negatively. Laziness comes to mind. Lack of commitment. Even deceit.
I'm not saying that Mexicans don't have great qualities. But I would prefer a little more balance.
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jerry
Super Nomad
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what does anyone really need FOOD, CLOTHING, AND SHELTER everything else is just wants, people give those wanted expectations the power to make then
unhappy. expecting less, less let downs
i was in RUSSIA interior when it was still communist for 3 weeks seting up equipment the first U.S. person in a city of 80,000 ppl
the people were happy, content,poor, but they didnt know they were poor so it didnt bother them i believe that the more the us intagrates with other
countrys the less happy they will become i can allreaddy see the younge doing the keep up with the jones thing
jerry and judi
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SoCalAl
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Location: Punta Banda, Ca
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Nice topic,
The truth is anything that is beyond your survival means is vanity and thus comes the stress to keep up with the Jones's.. In Mexico and I say
it cause I am Mexican, when your family does what they are supposed to. They simply hand down land from one generation to the next. You get married
build a simple home on it and work to eat. You know just the basics. In America you never really own your home and we are never just satisfied witht
he basics.
When you visit family in other cities or states you stay at their home and the visiter is always treated special. In America we go to a hotel.
In Mexico you buy just enough clothing to get you through, in America we have closets full and most of the stuff is on credit. Come on our woman pay
$50 for panties and men pay $100 for ties.
In Mexico people eat at home most of the time. In America we either go out to a restaurant or buy the best food trying to live longer. Come on if
you look at Mexicans vs Americans they die at about the same age and many Mexicans outlive Americans. Stress Kills..
So I can go on and on but the bottom line is anything more that he basics for survival is vanity and having to much stuff or wanting the best of
everything is like the Bible says affliction to the spirit.
The whole point that many Americans are attracked to Baja and Mexico in general is the serenity of a lifestyle that is pretty much stress free.
Cheaper cost of living and the likes. I don't see to many of the american public rushing to live in Mexico city or Guadaljara it is always the areas
where the Mexican people still practice the traditions I described above. But go to a large city and they are just as stressed out as people in
America if not worse.
Just my opinion
SoCalAl
Alex
Ahh Baja.... Where you can hear yourself think & commingling with the locals will humble you.
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SiReNiTa
Special Correspondent
Posts: 881
Registered: 5-5-2006
Location: Ensenada, B.C.S.
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Mood: Savoring life while saving the world!
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some of you ask why more happier here in beautiful baja...while others like myself ask....why the hell not?īmyself...i love it when i go up north but
i doubt i could stand being up there full time...itīs just that most people up there are more up tight about things while here as some of you said
itīs more of a fate thing...whatīs gonna happen is gonna happen and we can choose how but not when and where or what...so i guess itīs all about
letting yourself loose and enjoying the world and life because we all know itīs too short to waste
Live life as well as you can,
don\'t regret the things that once made you smile,
learn from your mistakes,
and thank God for every second he gives you upon this earth.
Visit me at
Http://BajaScents.Scentsy.com.mx
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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What a bunch of nonsense.
The question should be, Why are Americans so miserable ?
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jerry
Super Nomad
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because there not mexicans living in mexico
that was easy
jerry and judi
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Skeet/Loreto
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Thanks to all of you who have given words from your Hearts.
There are places in America that still show the Happiness on a Daily Basis,
One of those is Utah. When you step off the Plane in Salt Lake City you will notice the Difference in 5 minutes.
M<y opinion is that it is the Culture of Family Values.
In my many years I have seen Children come out of Cardboard Shacks with a Smile on their Face, a longing for the Day, going to School!!!
The Time I brought Veggie Seeds to Chico at San Nicolas, telling him that he could start a Garden and have more Food.--He looks at me and says" If I
am hungry i just go to the Beach and catch Fish"
There are many reasons for much of the Unhappiness I noticed about the Americans/Canadians-- The most outstanding seems to be "Fear".
I consider myself very Lucky in Life, as I do not know "Fear". I Trust in "Faith, Hope, and Charity and my Belief in God.
God Bless All of You!
Skeet/Loreto
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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Location: Punta Banda
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Oh yeah... Thats good. Americans arn't happy because they arn't Mexicans.
Jesus Christo Jerry, have some pride if you think you deserve it and quit embarrasing yourself.
After all, tomorrow is veterans day.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
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Location: loreto
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hea thats tomorrow dont be trying to stressing me out today
monyona never comes
all that aside i do honer our vets there the only reason we have the freedom to live a life and injoy mexico
jerry and judi
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