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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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Registered: 8-20-2003
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It Just Doesn't End !
How about that Sergio ? The Latest Hurricane off of the Pacific Coast of Mexico heading Northwest.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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Quick!
Somebody clue Senor Bush that there is no Santa Clause but there is global warming. Maybe there's time to get that fence up and stop Sergio at the
border.
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bajajudy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6886
Registered: 10-4-2004
Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
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SERGIO
He is a far away but Sergio is punching over 100kts of wind and may get stronger.
THEY say he wont come here(Baja) but what the heck do they know. THEY sure have been wrong a lot this year.
[Edited on 11-16-2006 by bajajudy]
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Breakup in a couple of days and go east onto the mainland giving Acapulco lots of rain.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Getting a Clue.
Considering the fact that this Hurricane Season (Atlantic and Pacific) has been one of the milder ones and severe Hurricane seasons with events as
late as December have occurred for hundreds of years prior to "The Global Warming" hysteria, Anyone who believes that this
represents a PROOF of the Global Warming Phenomenom qualifies for an instant membership in ND's "Special-Ed" group of the learning disabled.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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You are absolutely right Bill..........and smoking doesn't cause cancer either. 
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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Global warming AND cooling have been going on for Billions of years. The real fact is that cooling and warming will happen with or without us and
there is nothing we can do to change either one. IT IS NATURAL.
Another FACT to think about is that that it is really global COOLING that destroys societies. See: Roman Empire, Mayan Empire, Egyptian Empire,
Anasazi, Vikings....Not to mention the "Dark Ages" in Europe which occurred during a COOLING period.
So, please stop with the prayers for global cooling, not that they will do any good. You will find it is much worse to live in a cooling world, look
at history.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Considering the fact that this Hurricane Season (Atlantic and Pacific) has been one of the milder ones and severe Hurricane seasons with events as
late as December have occurred for hundreds of years prior to "The Global Warming" hysteria, Anyone who believes that this
represents a PROOF of the Global Warming Phenomenom qualifies for an instant membership in ND's "Special-Ed" group of the learning disabled.
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Hey! I represent that!
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Taco de Baja
Global warming AND cooling have been going on for Billions of years. The real fact is that cooling and warming will happen with or without us and
there is nothing we can do to change either one. IT IS NATURAL.
Another FACT to think about is that that it is really global COOLING that destroys societies. See: Roman Empire, Mayan Empire, Egyptian Empire,
Anasazi, Vikings....Not to mention the "Dark Ages" in Europe which occurred during a COOLING period.
So, please stop with the prayers for global cooling, not that they will do any good. You will find it is much worse to live in a cooling world, look
at history.
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Yah, sure, but when sea levels rose a few million years nobody was around to care. Now if the ocean rises a couple feet there's serious economic
consequences. Whether its natural or man-made is relevant as to whether we can(or wish to) control it to some degree.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Ok I go along with the warming and cooling for thousands of years, but I also think we are making contributions that are affecting it and possibly
putting us over the edge. Who's to say? Mr.Bill (climate expert)
[Edited on 11-17-2006 by comitan]
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
Yah, sure, but when sea levels rose a few million years nobody was around to care. Now if the ocean rises a couple feet there's serious economic
consequences. Whether its natural or man-made is relevant as to whether we can(or wish to) control it to some degree. |
You don't have to go back millions of years. During the period from 18,000 to 6,000 years ago, sea level rose close to 300 feet (works out to 0.8 cm
per year or ~30 inches every 100 years)......That’s a lot of coastal flooding at a fast rate, and there were Humans around who were affected by this!
Sea level has continued to rise, just more slowly, over the last 6,000 years.
Ever see the National Geographic specials on the Greek and Roman ruins that are below water in the Mediterranean sea? Do you think they caused the
water to rise? Maybe through their cooking fires  ??? And, what could
have the Greeks and Romans done to stop the rising water?
There are in fact tens of thousands of archaeological sites that are under water on all the coasts of the world, including Baja and California. They
may not be as spectacular and the Greek and Roman cities, but they were villages that were inundated none the less. And there was nothing the early
humans did to cause the rising water and nothting they could have done to stop it... It's NATURAL.
Besides, Mexitron, you don't live near the coast anymore, so why should you care about sealevel MAYBE rising 1 to 2 cm over the next 50
years? 
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Oxxo's Right !
Although I suspect that Oxxo's comment to the effect that "Smoking Cigarettes doesn't Cause Cancer, he or she is Correct
!
Although smoking is a contributing factor (perhaps the greatest), the FACT that some people smoke on a regular basis for 50 or more years before dying
a natural death while others die of Lung Cancer without having been exposed to any of the usual risk factors, indicates that there isn't a pure causal
relationship. It's just one piece of the puzzle along with genetic makeup and environment.
As far as Commitan assigning to me the title of Climate Expert, I am merely repeating KNOWN FACTS from a historical perspective.
Argue with those FACTS if you'd like. Overblown Hyperbole ("The Sky is Falling") does more to discredit your viewpoint than anything else.
You can Think all you wish to that the Industrial World is having a significant effect on the Current Warming
regime. Some people think that they are Jesus. No harm in that, but thus far there is NO scientific PROOF that such is the case.
Lastly, The Kyoto Kooks who condemn the U.S. for not supporting their Chicken Little crusade ignore the fact that any agreement which allows China,
India and other Asian countries to opt out will have no significant environmental result and will simply put us at an economic disadvantage.
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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Taco--I have no conclusion as to why the ocean is rising, but its important to study why it is and if man has anything to do with it. If we do then
perhaps we can change course to effect it--more nukes and less Iraqi oil for instance. That said, the broader brush is that regardless of natural or
man-made there's a lot more at stake than there was 6,000 years ago--you're talking about putting levees around major cities like Long island or
abandoning them, not moving your teepee inland a few hundred yards. We'll survive either way I'm sure but the economic shift could be substantial if
we are in an accelerated event. (Geez, at least we're employing some scientists by studying it and probably learning a lot about how the
ocean/atmosphere works as a side benefit.)
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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There is plenty of evidence that global warming is occuring at this point in time; polar caps melting; sea level rising; destructive climate changes,
etc. The water in Sea of Cortez was warmer than anytime since records have been kept. It has attracted hurricanes more often, caused more destruction
(in Mulege) and are still occuring, way later than normal.
None of this is "proof" that man is causing it, but there is scientific evidence that man puts harmful agents into the atmosphere, destroying the
ozone layer and that this could have an altering effect on our climate. The fact that this is occuring does not refute the fact that there have been
warming and cooling cycles througout the history of the world.
I hate it when this issue becomes politicized. Those in power have the ability to do what they can to halt the harm that man causes. We have to do
what we can do.
Chicken Little ran up to Ozzie Ostrich who was standing by the side of the road. He was flapping his wings and screeching, "the sky if falling, the
sky is falling". Well, Ozzie was in the exotic feather business and humans came from miles around to be tickled and adourned. "Shhhh=h-h-h!" shushed
the ostrich. You are scaring away business. He didn't much care for chickens anyway and so he plopped his head into the sand. Well......neither of
these birdbrains saw the semi coming down the road towards them. Kids, I'm sorry I made you cry, but that's the end of the story. On that very day
their sky did fall and it was very bad for business.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Yada, Yada, Yada
IF and When, The Kyoto Kooks can come up with an argreement (which can be enforced) that includes China, India and
Southeast Asian Countries which are currently exempt, Then there can be a discussion of the current proposals and their merits. It
is the height of naivete to think that the U.S. population would accept measures which would create potential Economic disaster for America.
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k1w1
Junior Nomad
Posts: 76
Registered: 8-28-2006
Member Is Offline
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sigh
so many idiot rednecks, so little Baja.
(hows about the guy talking of roman cooking fires vs industrial revolution!?? hahahahahahahahahahahaaha)
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Summanus
Nomad
Posts: 481
Registered: 10-15-2006
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think....... 4.4 billion years of ....Volcanos
Summanus....ancient Roman Nightly Thunder God. He liked refrieds too.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Although smoking is a contributing factor (perhaps the greatest), the FACT that some people smoke on a regular basis for 50 or more years before dying
a natural death while others die of Lung Cancer without having been exposed to any of the usual risk factors, indicates that there isn't a pure causal
relationship. It's just one piece of the puzzle along with genetic makeup and environment.
As far as Commitan assigning to me the title of Climate Expert, I am merely repeating KNOWN FACTS from a historical perspective.
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MrBillM you are priceless! Doing a little trolling, huh? Must be a little slow out at the campo today? I am beginning to appreciate your satirical
sense of humor. Only an idiot would take your comments seriously.
By the way, I will be in San Felipe this Friday, look for me. Oh wait, you don't even know my gender. Just look for the bumper sticker that says,
"Some village in Texas has lost their idiot" right next to the one that says, "W/04"
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Summanus
think....... 4.4 billion years of ....Volcanos |
We're talking about the gases put out by man in addition to 4.4 billion years of volcanos and fires.
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
| Quote: | Originally posted by Summanus
think....... 4.4 billion years of ....Volcanos |
We're talking about the gases put out by man in addition to 4.4 billion years of volcanos and fires. |
Don't forget gases put out by plants.....
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