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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Develop/Keep the Same
Will development change Baja for the good or ill?
Iflyfish when not typing
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
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Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Both...
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TacoFeliz
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Mood: Exploratory
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Yes
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DianaT
Select Nomad
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The discussion of this issue so far is overwhelming in its specificity. 
But then again, maybe this is a good way to keep the thread from falling into a name calling disaster---not that any of the threads where there is a
difference of opinion go that direction. 
Seriously, I would like to hear some opinions??
Diane
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aquaholic
Nomad
Posts: 119
Registered: 9-2-2006
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...it probably also depends if you're a Mexican who likes the influx of new money, or, a Norteamericano, who wants to preserve the "old" Baja...
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Keeping anything the same is an impossibilty.
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Bajamatic
Senior Nomad
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you cant keep it the same, but is there a road to development that doesnt lead to cabo? for me baja is all about the rugged, undeveloped atmosphere,
and when that is gone, i'll find a new frontier, but I would hate to think i would not want to go back, which is precisely how i feel about cabo.
yuletide
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
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Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Bajamatic. Agree with you about Cabo. We'll just have to keep on looking.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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I had the experience of growing up in the Santa Clara Valley in California. We watched it grow from an agricultural community to suburbia in my
lifetime. I don't recognize the place and don't go back.
I moved to Oregon nearly forty years ago and was here when the late, and in my opinion great, Governor McCall said "Visit Oregon but don't stay". This
became the popular state moto. That campaine was not successful and I can now scarse recognise the Oregon I moved to. I still love Oregon and can get
my cappicuno in the morning nearly anywhere in the state. I can also go to most places and not have to experience secondary smoke.
I have been going to Quesnel Lake in British Columbia to flyfish for the past thrity years. When I first went there it was primitive wilderness and
the lodge I stayed in had no electricity, wood stoves, oil lamps etc. I loved that place. Now I go to Elysia Resort on Quesnel Lake and enjoy indoor
plumbiing, a hot tub, wonderful cooking and trout fishing better than thirty years ago. I have more creature comforts now than we ever had. I am glad
that this has happened. As I age I appreciate my creature comforts more and more. Nearly everyone welcomed the electricity and new roads.
I am fortunate to have made friends with many people on Quesnel Lake. I am welcomed with hugs and kisses each time I go there. I have found a second
family there. I will return each year till my health no longer allows.
I notice that the new people who are coming to stay at Elysia Resort on Lake Quesnel, in British Columbia are enjoying it with the same relish and
delight that ever I had in my earliest days there. And I, now gimped from my latest medical issues, enjoy the ease with which I can enjoy that place,
it's people and the new happy faces of those experiencing it for their first time.
I used to go to Melaque, just north of Manzanillo. I had the same experience of meeting people who welcomed me back like family. I went year after
year. Melaque however suffered greatly from a very bad earth quake and it damaged the sewer sytem. They have never recovered. I have twice now gone
there and got pneumonia from something in the air. It saddens me that my health will not allow my return. I loved that place.
Infrastructure is important to the development of communities. I believe that development is inevitable. The only issue is how it is done. Active
community involvement, to the extent possible, is vital to this process. More lives have been saved by proper sanitation than by any medical
development. The medical development that probably has saved the most lives was the introduction of hand washing, which by the way was opposed by most
of the medical establishment for a very long time.
I have come to believe that developers will always try to build and to challenge land use laws. The battle for communities to take charge of their own
development, or at least maintain a say in it is hard work. It takes dedicated, hard working people to insure that the wants and needs of local people
are heard. Protecting our enviorment is not a spectator sport. Sometimes it is an act of futility.
David K has mastered the simple sentance, and usually says it better than I, when we agree. He said it well, "both".
I stopped the development of a subdivision once by allying with flower bulb growers to protest annexation of some agricultural land into the city
boundaries. This land was sand and loam to a depth of forty feet! Amazing black earth that would grow the best root crops ever! It required days of my
time and lots of late night meetings and the ire of many people to fight this. We found a way to stop it by focusing on the cost of infrastructure to
support the new houses that would have been built on the land. That required me going to the city water department and looking at diagrams of the city
water system etc. The issue was won not on the merits of bad judgement of paving over some of the best agricultural land in the country, but on the
size of the existing water pipes and how they would have to feed bigger ones. I did not do this alone. This battle required the efforts of may good
people. These issues are often not won on the merits of the enviormental issues but by focusing on the self interests of the parties involved.
As I age I am getting better at grieving. Life is change and that means loss in addition to what ever else is happening. Letting go of the past is
essential to opening our hands and arms to the future.
Iflyfish when not trying to master the simple sentance.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Changes come slower to some places
Of couse they do. I share the same exodus to Oregon many here do. Most ol' timers know how I passionately feel about the integration of special places
into a capitalist' desire to make money, replete with golf courses and "all-inclusive" developments.
I can happily say that we here on the central Oregon coast have seen a slower transition in the 20 yrs we've been here, to the saturation point than
the rest of the west coast. That doesn't spell panacea like it does in our neighbors towns. It also means a lower wage per capita and a higher small
biz failure rate.
Makes it a beautiful place still.
Dependant upon tourism as the chief souce of income now, most new biz starts are in that category. We had our heyday when the economy was fluid and
more folks ventured to, and plied the coast. They spent good bucks up till 9-11. Now the frugal minded gas-conscience motor home traveler shops and
eats mainly aboard his ostentacious rig or simply stops at the many fast-food joints along our nations corridors.
Does that mean Baja will taper off in it's growth rate and follow a similar path? Hard to say, but negative press helps.
The main factor here is the fantastically crappy weather we have daily much of the year. It's not for wimps tho. Baja on the other hand prompts
visions of warm beaches with hammocks and a Margarita in yer palm. Not a hot coffee like the PNW.
There are many variables and for now, it's basically a utilities and infrastructure issue. Have you seen the new power pole installation leading all
the way from G.N. to the Bay of LA turn-off?? That spells developement possibilites for many miles.
Fine to develop sensibly. That sounds like a joke tho.
Of course it will never go the way of So Cal. Look at Cabo.They just bypassed
their historical growth phenomenon. Didn't need to condemn old homes. Of course that does not mean many folks do not get displaced or removed.
Let us hope that the big money decides to cling to the more easily accessed places already under development and leave the rest for the more seasoned
traveler. In other words, places you have to bring supplies and water into. Imagine that!
P.S. Oregon makes a lousy cappuccino in my opinion. 
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jimgrms
Senior Nomad
Posts: 664
Registered: 9-30-2005
Location: oceanside ca
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Mood: its always good
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I think growth is inevetable sp and it will mean a opportunity for the people of baja to earn a little more money and have a better life, just as
long as the developers don't cheat ' the landowners which they will given 1/2 a chance ,
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Shark,
we plan to come to Newport, park our ostentatious rig and come in for a big bowl of that Chappino, or the stew?? Or maybe spend the night and do both.
I went to your site and could almost smell the seafood. I don't know how I missed your place in the past. Glad you post here.
Growth in any community is a complex issue. Oregon used to have in place model land use planning laws. They now have been overturned by a ballot
measure that is undoing decades of hard work for those who worked so hard to establish urban growth boundaries, green zones, agricultural zones etc.
The battle is inevitable and ongoing.
I would wager that some areas of Baja will improve and some deteriorate. So much is at stake in the planning stages of these thinks. By the time the
bull dozers arrive, it is generally too late.
Iflyfish
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aquaholic
Nomad
Posts: 119
Registered: 9-2-2006
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...while we're talking about development, does anyone have further word on what's going to happen at Santicpac??? The residents were told the property
has been sold and that all permanent structures would have to be removed by the first of the year.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I lived in Tofino, British Columbia for much of my adult life and moved there when it was a tiny fishing village and only one hotel and a strip bar.
In 10 years it grew to epic proportions and the "new" business people(mostly USA folks) got on town council and made all these stupid bylaws. All the
beach dwellers had to move, they bulldozed their driftwood homes, closed the beaches to camping and the town went to crap as far as I was concerned.
All the cool people moved out to the islands and deeper into the woods as property taxes rose out of sight. Your dog had to be on a leash and no fires
were allowed on the beaches after 11:00....silly.
Which is why I decided to stay in baja when my daughter was born...no bylaw officers!
I figure the good thing about our area of the coast to deter big development is that the weather isn't hot enough for most tourists in the winter,
it's a long way off the highway, the wind blows in the afternoons in the spring and in general it's just really difficult for gringos to do business
here. Living here isn't for the faint of heart or spirit and can be intimidating to most gabachos. I really can't see much in the way of large scale
devlopment happening here but welcome the paved road and decent electricity so my computer and fridge doesn't burn out. As the natives say...white
people come...and they go.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Your dog had to be on a leash and no fires were allowed on the beaches after 11:00....silly
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Gee, that sounds just like SoCal. Except only fires and fun are prohibited.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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i fly fish and sharks
yes a law that was unjust has been overturned by a vote of the people plane and simple
it was unjust because the people who owned and tended the land (real inviromentalists)for many years some centrys were being slited there investments
were not being counted in the big picture
the whole plane BY SO CALLED(inviromentalist) MOST WHO HAD COME FROM OTHER STATES) RAILROADED THIER VIEW AS TO WHAT WOULD BE GOOD FOR OREGON sorry
for yelling
it mostly came about after the people who came in invested heavely and did venture out into capitalistic enterprizes then startedlawsuits against the
locals to hold there investment values
i love baja just the way it is and i love oregon too i feel if your going to move there live there by thier rules dont try to change it to your way of
thinking
i do feel this will fall on deaf ears as most who speak loud have deaf ears to whats really going on about them and most only use thier limited view
as a yard stick
jerry and judi
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
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Location: loreto
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ps sorry i ment to adress a statment not acuse anyone of anything
i do feel pasionate about this subject
jerry and judi
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Well I'm sorry I have to say its going to happen whether anyone likes it or not, so you better enjoy while you can because its not going to be there
forever, or you will just have to adjust." It" being the Baja you know and love. I also have to tell you that when we first came to the Baja 24 years
ago everyone said it was too late, I guess its to late now and to late 10 years from now and you tell those people its too late 10 years from. Ha!
[Edited on 11-26-2006 by comitan]
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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Comitan's right. It's all a matter of perspective.
All we can do is buy in early !
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roundtuit
Senior Nomad
Posts: 607
Registered: 12-21-2004
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Mood: Wife's Job
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As far as I know Santispac Has not been sold But all houses must be off the beach by Feb 1st. Camping with rv"s allowed next to palapa's till whenever
Just no perment structures. Ray's can stay for now and Anna's is not on that property. Could be wrong 
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