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RICHARDH
Junior Nomad
Posts: 84
Registered: 11-15-2006
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Estimating steepest grade a vehicle can handle without stalling
I've now studied a few Baja travel guides, especially for the area between Guerrero Negro and C. Constitution (and over to the Sea of Cortez), and I'm
ready to think more specifically of backroad access to wilderness areas.
In particular, Walt Peterson's book gives lots of information about backroads, including maximum grades (as specific numerical percentages). Many of
those numerical percentages seem rather surprising. So I'm wondering if he is using the same measurement scale that, say, Caltrans uses for signs
along (Alta) California highways. For example, Peterson says the grades on the way from Mex 1 to San Francisco de la Sierra are "no more that 14
percent" (gasp). From descriptions I've read, that road is an example of one I'd like to drive just to see the scenery and perhaps to do some hiking
as well. The typical maximum grade I've seen posted on California highways is something like 6 percent. That's quite a big difference numerically
from 14 percent. So I'm wondering if Peterson is using the same scale.
In particular, I would also like to drive my pickup/camper on one or more relatively steep grades in order to find a quantitative limit that I can
compare to Peterson's values.
Does anyone have any good ideas on how I could conduct such a test? If stalling is necessary for testing purposes, the roadway should be fairly wide
and straight -- no-stalling on steep, narrow, hairpin turns -- very dangerous. I know of some fairly steep grades that my pickup/camper will handle
reasonably well, but I have no idea what the numerical percentages are for the grades.
Any ideas on how to get a handle on this?
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
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Location: South of the broder
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Some paved well used highways in Utah are 12 percent - so 14 for a Baja Calif road would not be out of line. And I don't think I'd stall on 14%.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Yes if its a road that is traveled you can go up it no matter what someone assigns a percentage to.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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you can always go up it in reverse. better gear ratio. go already!
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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Is your cabover camper (fully loaded) actually overloading your truck? This is actually pretty common. Generally, any non-popup camper over 9-6 is
actually over the laden weight limit of all the 3/4 ton pickups on the market. Of course, the seller wont usually tell you this. If it isn't, there's
probably very little you cant conquer if you have traction.
What are the specifics on your rig?
If you're even close to being legal, there should be almost nothing you cant take in Baja except for some of the steepest dirt roads in remote areas.
And there, it's probably not the best thing for your camper with that much stress on the frame.
I did do the La Vibora grade south of El Rosario with a 9-4 Lance Squire on the back of an F350 4x4 diesel with a 3.73 rear end, auto-tranny. Tires
were simple M & S rated tires, not gnarly offroaders. Didnt come close to stalling in high range 4wd. Maybe Peterson refers to that grade for
reference?
[Edited on 1-5-2007 by Hook]
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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RICHARDH,
Have you ever taken Hwy 108 over Sonora Pass? I don't know the exact numbers but it's close to 17%.
To my mind a lot of it has to do with your lowest gear. Years ago I drove a 3-speed 6 cyl dodge van over La Cuesta from El Arco to San Francisquito
and managed to stall it several times. First gear was just inadequate.
A few years later I came back with an automatic chevy 3/4 ton truck with a low granny gear and that thing went everywhere (on firm ground). The
problem with a steep uphill is that all of your pots and pans end up sliding to the back door. What a surprise when you open it.
A 4WD is really comforting though. But not necessary.
Glad you're into Peterson's book. He gives a lot of valuable information for backcountry exploration.
[Edited on 1-5-2007 by Skipjack Joe]
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RICHARDH
Junior Nomad
Posts: 84
Registered: 11-15-2006
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Hook, mechanics tell me that my cab-over camper is too much weight for my 1984 Ford Ranger mini-pickup -- I've gone through two transmissions, two
right-rear axles, and a set of U-joints on this vehicle.
So basically I'm trying to take an engineering aproach to this question.
Also, the drive is two-wheel with 5-speed standard transmission, an apparently oversize differential, and a V6, 2.8 liter engine.
I'd like to get an accurate idea of what my physical limits are.
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TacoFeliz
Nomad
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Location: Here
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RICHARDH
As good a job as you can do 'armchair engineering', the map is still not the territory. In most cases, simple dirt roads will take you anywhere you
want to go in Baja. Pucker factor will often dictate what is and what isn't an acceptable angle of travel. Many times I have found that my truck was
capable of going places I wasn't comfortable going.
More important is that you take care not to drive into anything you don't know for sure that you can drive out of, and travel with another vehicle,
particularly when you are way out in the weeds. Several of the areas you have noted in your posts are remote and not frequently traveled, so sitting
around waiting for help might be a really long wait.
My two cents worth is that you'll see plenty of wide open spaces without any death defying off-roading. Trails are all over the place, and ranchos
and fish camps and great campsites. You'll have a great time - - just pay attention.
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RICHARDH
Junior Nomad
Posts: 84
Registered: 11-15-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
RICHARDH,
Have you ever taken Hwy 108 over Sonora Pass? I don't know the exact numbers but it's close to 17%.
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Thanks, Joe. I usually take Hwy 88 over the Sierra Nevada (both ways). Are you talking about the eastern approach to Sonora Pass? Or would that be
the western approach? I seem to recall that I may have chickened out for fear of not being able to get back the same way. Or perhaps I may have even
chickened out on the western approach. That was some time ago. I was towing a Mitsubishi Mirage then and probably took the pass both ways with the
Mirage.
I guess I may try Hwy 108 on my way down to Baja.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Hi Richard,
Don't worry... You should have seen Hook master his big camper up the La Vibora Grade!
Hook's camper is just rounding a switchback in the background... We just climbed up from the Rosario riverbed (way down)...
Hook's BIG camper is the third in this line up following my '01 Tacoma and Bob H's Ford 4X4...
A really, really steep Baja grade is the 'widowmaker' just over a mile from Mision Santa Maria...
The steepest paved roads in Baja are the Cuesta del Infierno outside of Santa Rosalia and the recently paved road to the observatory with a steep
pitch west of the Meling Ranch.
In the old Baja days, the road between Puertecitos and Gonzaga had the steepest 4WD grades... Now a well graded dirt highway is in its place...
although the surface is currently very rough!
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Both ways are steep. From the west the stretch right after the turnoff to Kennedy Meadows is really something. The road from the east above Leavitt
Meadows varies considerably but there is one stretch with a beautiful overlook below that's just amazing. It's hard walking up that thing. That's
beautiful country though. Right at timberline. Lots of glacial polish.
Trouble is, it's winter now and all snowed in until Memorial Day.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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RichardH, an oversized differential? Do you mean that a rebuild increased your rear axle ratio (which would be a good thing for climbing).
Skippy Joe, do you venture into the Leavitt Meadows area much? The wife and I did a horse packing trip into that area two summers ago and really liked
it. It was about my 6th or 7th multiday packer trip. We had them drop us 12 miles in for five day in a remote location with all our own gear. Great
day hiking from there. Also did a day ride through Leavitt Meadows a couple years before.
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Frank
Senior Nomad
Posts: 861
Registered: 6-5-2005
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Is it time to leave yet?
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| Quote: | Originally posted by RICHARDH
Hook, mechanics tell me that my cab-over camper is too much weight for my 1984 Ford Ranger mini-pickup -- I've gone through two transmissions, two
right-rear axles, and a set of U-joints on this vehicle.
So basically I'm trying to take an engineering aproach to this question.
Also, the drive is two-wheel with 5-speed standard transmission, an apparently oversize differential, and a V6, 2.8 liter engine.
I'd like to get an accurate idea of what my physical limits are. |
The mechanics are telling you the camper is too heavy for your truck. Your truck is telling you the camper is too heavy for it too. You have gone
through 2 transmissions, 2 right rear axels {thats the drive side btw} 2 sets of u joints. These items are what puts the power to the ground.
My engineering instincts tell me you need a bigger truck{read more beef} or a smaller camper.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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i f it was me i would be more worried about going down those steep grades
if your over loaded so are your brakes if you stall going up your stopped and can jump out
brakes hold a lot better going forward then in reverse sepecaly overloaded brakes
you gotta be good to back down those hill with brakes failing
jerry and judi
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AmoPescar
Senior Nomad
Posts: 835
Registered: 7-15-2006
Location: North San Diego County
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Mood: Need a Fish Taco and a Pacifico!
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THIS HILL MIGHT BE TO STEEP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7mozEpa2o
Amo 
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Cameron
Nomad
Posts: 117
Registered: 10-12-2004
Location: Todos Santos / Seattle WA
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Ford Ranger Capabilities...
Hi Richard!
I'm with Frank (And your Mechanic.) on this one. The '84 Ranger is rated for 1260 to 1500 lbs. payload, and I believe you're probably asking too much
of your truck.
If I remember correctly from reading some of your previous posts, you've got a cabover camper and occasionally you tow a trailer as well. The camper
alone is probably putting your truck at or over the safe operating limit, and I'm not surprised to hear you've had a problem on steep grades.
If you want to keep hauling your camper (..And maybe a trailer too.) around without blowing up your truck on a regular basis, I think it's time to
start looking for a full-sized replacement for your Ranger.
If you're looking for more ideas or advice about your truck's limits, and/or possible upgrades to your (Ford) engine/transmission/suspension , check
out the Ford Truck Enthusiast website at: http://www.ford-trucks.com, or "The Ranger Station" at: http://therangerstation.com. The FTE site is especially good, with model-specific forums packed with helpful info.
Suerte!.. Cameron
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Good video Amo!
Do you have that one taken at Moab... SUV going down the granite face and no brakes!?
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Geronimo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 91
Registered: 6-12-2005
Location: Salome Arizona/San Felipe BC Mex
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Its all about Gear ratio
You need to find your gear ratio; Tire size, Trans Gears, and rear axle ratio. Trany Gears should be somewhere on the internet, I believe that you
have a Mazda 5 speed in there. You might have a tag on your dif cover that has your ratio, if not. Jack your truck up(both rear tires). Mark your
drive shaft and turn the tire one time, count the revs of the drive shaft. 4lo.com and others have calculators for RPM and other usefull info. You
might be able to figure something out for the asphalt, dirt is another topic all together. Best of luck on this trip, you have a lot more courage
than I.
\"The only cure is to be perpetually South Bound\"
~Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers from the song Mexicosis
Geronimo
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AmoPescar
Senior Nomad
Posts: 835
Registered: 7-15-2006
Location: North San Diego County
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Mood: Need a Fish Taco and a Pacifico!
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LION’S BACK CRASH...MAYBE TOO STEEP????
David K. - This might be what you are talking about…at The Lion’s Back, Moab, Utah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbkTncjEOs
Here’s another video of the same hill….quite a view looking over the hood coming down!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ablhrZw0h3I
Seems like this hill was TOO steep to climb!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouWJa6FC7-E
David K. amd all you Toyota owners will like this one…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2fflm4B950
Hope you enjoy the videos!
Amo 
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Yah, that first video was it!
The others are good too... Thanks!
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