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KenS
Newbie
Posts: 12
Registered: 1-18-2007
Location: San Diego
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Is this normal?
Let me start by saying that I am a newcomer to this site. I have lurked for months, and recently registered (I heard about the site by lurking on the
rv.net forums)
I am new to Baja, but not to Mexico, I spent a lot of time in the 90's on trips which started in el DF and radiated out, learning about the culture,
the people, and the language that I have come to love.
Over the past few years, circumstance has limited my trips to day-long excursions to Sanborn's for lunch and to look for the latest edition of Mexico
Desconocido and what ever interesting books I might find. Today (Saturday) was my first trip in about a year and probably my last into Baja.
Until today, the only contacts I had ever had with the police or military in Mexico was at checkpoints in Oaxaca and Guerrero, which were always
professional and pleasant.
Today in Tijuana, I was frisked three times on my walk from the border to downtown and back.
The last frisk was a "double dipper", both officers felt the need to frisk me. The second officer seemed to be finished when he reached between my
legs and squeezed hard enough to bring tears to my eyes. (I'll say here, I am somewhat fat and "40ish", I could be subdued by more humane methods, if
necessary) I knew better than to say anything as he went through my wallet, counting my money and commenting on how much it was (it was less than $100
but it was mostly small bills, so it may have seemed like a lot).
He then pleasantly thanked me and sent me on my way.
As someone who has developed a long-standing love affair with Mexico and has always poo-pooed any stories I heard of official misbehaviour I was
devastated. I walked to the border in a haze and will admit I've shed a tear tonight, not so much because of the humiliation but from a sense of
loss.
I realize that this is a relatively small thing, but it's now 4:00 a.m. and I can't shake it.
It seems like the folks on BajaNomad.com don't really stop in TJ if they can help it, but maybe someone can tell me if this is normal? I will soon be
able to resume my travels to Mexico, am I somehow wrong to write off Baja completely?
I realize this post may not be right for this forum, and I'm sorry if I've violated your space.
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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NO Problem - it is about BAJA after all. SO-get it off your chest, it sounds as this was an traumatizing (and painful) event for you. IT IS
HUMILIATING what you encountered, and comes close to sexual harrassement. And it would P$$ me Off too. You have the right to feel the way you do now.
Bodysearch happens, so I heard, but that seems to me a bit too much,it is intimidating. Another reason (for me) to FLY in, rather then to cross border
in BCN.
My 2 cents >f<
[Edited on 28-1-2007 by FARASHA]
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bajabound2005
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2760
Registered: 10-15-2005
Location: Punta Banda, BCN
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Mood: words cannot describe...
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What's happening in TJ is not normal. Tijuana is pretty much under military law right now due to its enormous problems. A trip to TJ is NOT a trip
to Baja, not even close! Next time, drive down, and get further south. Or walk over and hop on the ABC bus to take you wherever it might go! You'll
have a much more pleasant experience.
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Bajalover
Nomad
Posts: 227
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: The Cottage at Ocotillo Hills
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Mood: Strongly - Missing Baja
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Sorry to hear of your experience. Baja isn't like that. It's an outstandingly beautiful place with people, food, sights which only lift your spirits
and not harass them.
A scarey thought - being physically checked out like that.
When I travel to Baja, I don't stop for 200 miles (San Quentin - Cielito Lindo). THERE, things begin looking, feeling, and tasting like the Baja I've
come to love.
 Give Baja a chance, You'll love it.
Sometimes you really do question; why you are and where you are.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Kinda like strolling around Bahgdad. Is that spelling correct?
Is everybody in TJ getting this attention? If so, it's worse than I'd imagined. Mexico Desconocido isn't worth the humiliation.
By the way, Ken, isn't MD published in the U.S.? Check out their website. It's a great magazine.
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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Don't think Dennis that you'll be searched in Baghdad like that. You're either shot at, or blasted away by a car bomb.
I do remember a thread, about Bodysearch, a couple month ago. It was a 70 something woman that was searched, and she carried drugs. Can't recall if it
was TJ or SY.
Basically nothing wrong with Bodysearch - had it on Airports. It is about HOW it is done. It should not HURT or Intimidate.
>f<
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Paulina
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3810
Registered: 8-31-2002
Location: BCN
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I might suggest that you report your experience to the Dept. of Tourism.
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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Ken, it is too bad you experienced this. You do have a right to complain to the Mexican Consul regarding this treatment. There is good and bad in
officers on both sides of the border, you happened upon a bad one . I have traveled
into Baja and mainland Mexico for over 40 years and have experienced the good and a few bad situations. It is good you maintained yourself and did
not say anything back, as it would have only made the situation worse. TJ is under a lot of pressure to clean its mess up but it is a mess that is
not going to be easy to get under control. I agree with the others TJ is not Baja and do not let one wise guy ruin your future fun and enjoyment.
The Mexican Tourist agency can also take complaints and it may not resolve your situation but the complaint may get the government to tell their
border police or military to be professional with tourists. The bottom line if nobody reports these things then nobody will be told to stop such
actions. They have the right to search and do pat downs but not to harm in their searching techniques. You did not say if you were traveling with
others but this also helps these type of actions not to occur when you have friends with you, additionally Baja is always great with friends.
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Bajalero
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
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KenS
You should talk to this woman reporter who's looking for just such a story.
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=22179&pag...
As far as what is normal , there is no normal in Mex.
The way it is going, it will remain an unpredictable and for some a dangerous place for a long time.
Chin up amigo , worse things have happened to people.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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Like the sign says...
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=22206
...they have the power to make injuries
[Edited on 1-28-2007 by Don Alley]
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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No, it's not normal
I am very upst at this that happened to you, it is not normal. I really don't have great writing skills, specialy right now that I read your post.
These abusive %$@?*^$%$ should be sent to some shark or piraña infested waters. There are many, if not the vast majority of us Tijuana residents that
are really trying very hard to change this. For 3 weeks now you could sense a certain degree of peace in the city, when the above mentioned
%^$%#*)*(&%^ had no weapons, call it coinsidence if you want, but we all felt prety good, there was some doubt, but as time passed we did not feel
unsafe without them having guns. They, the ^$%^^%#$%%&^are so ridiculous, with that slingshot BS they did. Believe me, most of us did not feel bad
for them. Now they have their guns back and we realy hope they don't come back with a vengence. Were they armed? I know that they aren't all
^%&^$&&^*, but the 2 or 10 or 100 that are make a name for them all. I know for a fact that there are people with power or position that
are trying to make a difference and there are some of us that are doing it in our own different ways, because we want to know that we live in a good
city, a peaceful, noble, welcoming, friendly, safe and hospitalarian city. I have to dissagree with those that say that Tijuana is not México or that
is not Baja California, because it is. This is not Baghdad, we are not and never were under martial law, whoever sais that IMHMO resembles the
sligshot cops, just ridiculous, not worthy of a response.
I've done it before and will do it again and again and every time I see that I can, I will intervene. First thing tomorrow I will drop everything and
persue your case with whatever authority can give response to this. I am sure you realize that in order to do this I will need some info from you, ie.
names? badge #'s? time of day? etc. Can you do this?
What a way to start this day, 
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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FARASHA
Senior Nomad
Posts: 848
Registered: 6-3-2006
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fdt I am sure Ken will feel some comfort through your words, and you just made it up - showing that there ARE kind and caring Mexican
people in TJ. BRAVO - I'm so happy about your post!! >f<
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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I hope this doesnt appear callous, as you were clearly violated. But could you clarify something.....did the policeman proceed to relieve you of the
contents of your wallet? It was unclear to me.
A groping of a 40ish man would be, well, something that I have never heard of by TJ police, unless it was simply a thorough weapon search.
[Edited on 1-28-2007 by Hook]
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fdt
I have to dissagree with those that say that Tijuana is not México or that is not Baja California, because it is. This is not Baghdad, we are not and
never were under martial law, whoever sais that IMHMO resembles the sligshot cops, just ridiculous, not worthy of a response.
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PS. Forgot to mention Los Cabos, it too is Baja California
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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fdt -----------
It may not be Baghdad to you and I realize Marshall Law isn't in place but, for Ken and many others, it is equally inhospitible when they are
victimized by a police department which has earned their abusive reputation.
I appreciate you're defense of the finer attributes of a great city but, too many people are denied that by bad experiences from those who are
supposed to honor and protect everybody, not grope at their crotch just for walking down the street.
Not worthy of a response?
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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You are describing symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress secondary to a physical violation. Farasha is wise in her post. It is important to talk about
htis and not internalize the feelings. You have been violated. It is wrong what was done to you. You experienced on a minor level what women often
feel when raped. Your trust has been violated.
Keep talking about this and also focus on how you survived. You did great. You did not escalate and instinctively knew how to survive this situation.
You may find as you think about it how powerful you were in that situation. Many who are not as self protective might have escalated this and then
things could have really gone south. Good work!
I have traveled in Mexico for the same amount of time as you. Your feelings of Mexico aught to be seperate from your feelings about this abusive
situation. Don't confuse Mexico and the years of experience you have with the wonderful people here with what that sadistic and insecure SOB did to
you. Repressed Homosexuals can be very violent and his abuse of you may have been his own homosexuality "leaking out" in a culture that supports
machismo. He is a sexual sadist who is operating on a low level. A real sick puppy and you survived. His later victims may not be so lucky.
I am in Baja and loving it. I also am cautious and avoid TJ like the plague. Having said that I have found wonderful people like FTD in TJ that have
bent over backwards to help me.
On this trip. looking for the office to get my vehicle tag, I got lost and people came up to our rig to offer help unbidden. Remember those who have
treated you with love, respect and regard. Those experiences far outnumber the sort of abusive experience you just survived.
Sexual saddists occur in all cultures. There was recently a very good film with Denzel Washington wo played an upper class black man whose wife is
groped at a traffic stop. It happens in the US too, only more often to women than men.
My best to you. Thanks for posting.
Iflyfish
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Ifly -----
Total BS on on your evaluation of Kens experience. It wasn't a queer cop doing a homo thing. It was a cop on a power trip, abusing a victim.
It's the same scenario of strong versus weak which takes place in prisons every day, every minute.
It usually isn't sexually driven. It is power driven.
Some cops are into doing there job.
Some cops are into doing you.
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sylens
Senior Nomad
Posts: 584
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Ensenada
Member Is Offline
Mood: ando bajando
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sexually aggressive/invasive acts (rape and assaultive groping/pat downs) are rarely about sexual desire; almost always they are about power. perp's
sexual orientation is entirely beside the point. iflyfish was right on the money in his response to the victim, imho.
lili
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Well sylens ----
What about my response, which is the one that addressed your opinion.
Are you ignoring my input, or, just not reading it?
What do you know about PTSD?
What do you know about jail rape?
What do you know about power abuse?
What do you know about empathy?
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sylens
Senior Nomad
Posts: 584
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Ensenada
Member Is Offline
Mood: ando bajando
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dennis
actually, i am agreeing with you about the power issue and commenting that it is not inconsistent with iflyfish's response to the victim.
my credentials? i'd be glad to u2u if you wish< )
and yours?
lili
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