| Pages:
1
2
3 |
tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Score Responsibility
I was discussing off-roading in Baja with an old veteran recently. He made the statement that Score (Sal) in their agreements to race in Baja had a
responsibilty to grade the roads after a race.
I found this hard to believe. Will any of you that are familar with Score confirm or dispute this?
While talking about this with this gentleman we both agreed that 800 HP trucks do tear up the roads, in many places leaving 2 tracks sometimes 1 foot
deep. Being a 2 wheel enthusiast, that can spell disaster in trying to get out of the way of oncoming traffic.
Here comes the question..................Should Score have the responsibility (if they don't allready) to regrade the course? I know what a large
expense this would be. Is it fair to degrade roads that get so little maintenance in the first place.
Ken
|
|
|
mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18388
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
|
|
Of course they should regrade the roads. It has been irresponsible of them to never have done it in the past. Also irresponsible to do this in
Mexico, after saner heads banned such destructive racing in US a long time ago. Bunch of US boys going to mexico to practice a hobby (this is no
sport) no sane land owner or manager allows in the US.
|
|
|
TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
It is my understanding that SCORE negociates thru their lawyer in Ensenada with the city that host the race and the Ejidos the course runs on. Bajalou
pointed out that the landowners in San Felipe were not paid by the Tourist Bureau in Ensenada. I am assuming that SCORE pays the Bureau and they are
suppost to pay the landowners. SCORE pays $75 per racer to the Ejidos. 500 racers is $37,500. The city may kick in more as necessary to keep the race
on. It has been said many times that SCORE was going to grade a road but that never happened that I know of. I don't think SCORE wants to get involved
with that type stuff. If the locals want it graded then the locals will need to grade it with the money they are paid or race money set aside for
doing so.
When Mike Leon of Mike's Sky Ranch was alive he graded the roads into his place on a regular basis. Mike Jr doesn't and that's why he doesn't get the
RV business anymore and why the roads in and out are a piece of sh*t. I personally would like to see the roads graded after a race so when I ride my
MC it's not on the whoops from Hell.
I think Desert Bull could give a better answer to this since he's in on the markings and trail work for BFG/SCORE.
|
|
|
TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
Of course they should regrade the roads. It has been irresponsible of them to never have done it in the past. Also irresponsible to do this in
Mexico, after saner heads banned such destructive racing in US a long time ago. Bunch of US boys going to mexico to practice a hobby (this is no
sport) no sane land owner or manager allows in the US. |
Sorry but off-road racing in the U.S. is alive and well. Both SCORE and BITD run on dirt roads in AZ and NV as well as several other organizations.
The longest being the Vegas to Reno, 500+ miles. Get a copy of Dusty Times and check out the MORE, SNORE and other schedules.
|
|
|
PJC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1670
Registered: 3-28-2003
Location: EVERYWHERE
Member Is Offline
Mood: Right
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
Of course they should regrade the roads. It has been irresponsible of them to never have done it in the past. Also irresponsible to do this in
Mexico, after saner heads banned such destructive racing in US a long time ago. Bunch of US boys going to mexico to practice a hobby (this is no
sport) no sane land owner or manager allows in the US. |
The selfish voice of Goat666, a radical *****, earth worshiper speaks. But here is the real 411.
1) Sal negotiates land use fees with all Ejidos crossed. The fees are theirs to use for whatever they want: road grading, fiestas, a new well pump -
whatever.
2) We still have plenty of point to point and single lap, long desert races in the US even if the fringe, earth worshippers of the *****, state
religion think it is a sin.
3) Hobby? Not a sport? Perhaps we can strap you into a class 9 or 11 car soon to see how long you last.
[Edited on 6-6-2007 by BajaNomad]
|
|
|
Gadget
Senior Nomad
Posts: 851
Registered: 9-10-2006
Location: Point Loma CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Blessed with another day
|
|
Thanks PJC. You saved me from warming up my typing fingers to reply ***************.
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
|
|
PJC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1670
Registered: 3-28-2003
Location: EVERYWHERE
Member Is Offline
Mood: Right
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Gadget
Thanks PJC. You saved me from warming up my typing fingers to reply ***************. |
10-4 lookn' forward to the Mocos 500 Report.. Point me.
Cheers
[Edited on 6-5-2007 by PJC]
|
|
|
Gadget
Senior Nomad
Posts: 851
Registered: 9-10-2006
Location: Point Loma CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Blessed with another day
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by PJC
| Quote: | Originally posted by Gadget
Thanks PJC. You saved me from warming up my typing fingers to reply ***************. |
10-4 lookn' forward to the Mocos 500 Report.. Point me.
Cheers
[Edited on 6-5-2007 by PJC] |
Copy, please stand by. I will be getting it down over the next couple of days. We had an epic pit, but are all saddened by the tragic loss of one of
our race teams co-driver. Things are not easy for many of us right now.
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
|
|
PJC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1670
Registered: 3-28-2003
Location: EVERYWHERE
Member Is Offline
Mood: Right
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Gadget
Copy, please stand by. I will be getting it down over the next couple of days. We had an epic pit, but are all saddened by the tragic loss of one of
our race teams co-driver. Things are not easy for many of us right now.
|
Indeed.
Shoot, Shovel and Shut-up!
-- A simple operating practice.
‘Global warming’ has become the grand political narrative of the age, replacing Marxism as a dominant force for controlling liberty and human
choices.
-- Prof. P. Stott
Time was, people warning the world \"Repent - the end is nigh!\" were snickered at as fruitcakes.
Now they own the media and run the schools.
|
|
|
burro bob
Nomad
Posts: 264
Registered: 3-15-2004
Location: Poblado del Ejido Plan National Agrario
Member Is Offline
|
|
TW
First... the tourist bureau in Ensenada has nothing to do with the San Felipe 250. San Felipe is part of Mexicali and is therefore part of the
Mexicali COTUCO. The problems with this years San Felipe 250 had nothing to do with Ensenada.
Second.... Sal collects $75 per race car for land use fees. No one knows where that money goes. The Ejido Plan Natioinal Agrario has never reciever a
single peso from either SCORE or any government agency for the grading of roads used durring a race.
Tom, if your read your cheese everyday you would know this stuff.
burro bob
|
|
|
vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
|
|
Not withstanding Patrick's insulting rant, there is just no way in hell that the Baja 1000 is run entirely on ejido land, not for that matter is any
other Mexico race that I've heard of. Even IF the ejidos were getting money from the promoters, that would still leave 90% of the damaged roads in
worse shape than they were before the arrival of the rich Americans. (And a few Mexicans with enough money to burn on race vehicles)
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
|
|
|
capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
|
|
Pat - give the old devil goat a ride in your Lothringer and see if he still calls it a hobby!!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
|
|
tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
I started this thread as a supporter of Baja Racing. But it's hard to justify the condition of the roads after a race getting no attention at all.
Forget the tourists, most all of the locals travel these roads in 2 wheel drive vehicles. Try BOLA to San Fransisquito in a toyota tercel
sometime.
A lot of money is spent and made on these races, it wouldn't take that big a share to regrade the worst of the course at completion.
$250,000 to $500,000 depending on 500 or 1000 miles would go along way to repairing the course.
It should be a goal for the promoters to move in this direction. It could go along way to assuring that these races continue.
How about some input from the race fans on this?
Ken
|
|
|
Slowmad
Nomad
Posts: 243
Registered: 3-24-2005
Location: Alta California
Member Is Offline
|
|
So long as those loud Okies stay off the coastal routes, no harm no foul.
The only requirement for love or chorizo is confidence.
|
|
|
Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
A lot of money is spent and made on these races, it wouldn't take that big a share to regrade the worst of the course at completion.
|
You are going to have to provide specifics after a statement like that. You could start by providing a list of those in the racing community that make
a lot of money at the SCORE races. It sure ain't the teams, though they do spend a lot. It sure ain't the pit and team support folks, though they have
a lot of fun.
So, could you provide some specifics?
|
|
|
Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
|
|
I couldn't help but notice all the new pavement heading into Erendira at this year 500. It was not there before the 250. I also took the race course
south many miles. It is not the road the locals use. Year after year the races are allowed to continue. Money is made and handed out according to
local custom, or this would not happen. What happened in SF was a case of greed by one ejido, heads will roll. As far as grading dirt paths, come
on, give me a break. If the locals need it for daily life, it would not be on the race course anyway.
The comment about all off road racing being in MX is without merit. Check your facts before you insert foot.
A while back I remember PJC in an argument with some newbie bajabound person about how Mexicans don't like the off road races. You people need to
step out of your veranda once in a while and look at what is happening around you. Leave your Norte American sensibilities at home and examine the
facts.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
|
|
|
tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | You are going to have to provide specifics after a statement like that. You could start by providing a list of those in the racing community that make
a lot of money at the SCORE races. It sure ain't the teams, though they do spend a lot. It sure ain't the pit and team support folks, though they have
a lot of fun.
So, could you provide some specifics? |
In most motor sports, the Score Races I'm sure are no exception, the sponsers are the ones driving the economics. Corona, BFG, Tecate, Toyo, etc. as
well as the promotors.
The Terrible Herbsts, Raglands, McMillins, etc. could well afford to pay more in entrance fees to repair roads with their budgets. Why you want to
argue that no money is made, in offroad racing is amusing.
What I find interesting is that the responses I'm getting seem to be dancing around the issue.
Does Score have a responsibility? Why not just say they don't if that's what you feel. We can agree to disagree.
To say the locals don't use the course isn't even worth debating really. I've driven on much of the course in Baja Norte and seen Pangero's and other
locals using it, so have you, unless you haven't driven to Gonzaga or San Fransisquito.
So far it seems that most of those offering opinions think that the promotors do not have a responsibilty to repair the course. I'm a little
surprized. I thought with all the Nomads here that drive offroad, some would think differently.
By the way I know the locals love the races, as do I. Except, of course, the ones that booby trap the course each year.
Ken
|
|
|
Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
You are going to have to provide specifics after a statement like that. You could start by providing a list of those in the racing community that make
a lot of money at the SCORE races. It sure ain't the teams, though they do spend a lot. It sure ain't the pit and team support folks, though they have
a lot of fun.
So, could you provide some specifics? |
In most motor sports, the Score Races I'm sure are no exception, the sponsers are the ones driving the economics. Corona, BFG, Tecate, Toyo, etc. as
well as the promotors.
The Terrible Herbsts, Raglands, McMillins, etc. could well afford to pay more in entrance fees to repair roads with their budgets. Why you want to
argue that no money is made, in offroad racing is amusing.
What I find interesting is that the responses I'm getting seem to be dancing around the issue.
Does Score have a responsibility? Why not just say they don't if that's what you feel. We can agree to disagree.
To say the locals don't use the course isn't even worth debating really. I've driven on much of the course in Baja Norte and seen Pangero's and other
locals using it, so have you, unless you haven't driven to Gonzaga or San Fransisquito.
So far it seems that most of those offering opinions think that the promotors do not have a responsibilty to repair the course. I'm a little
surprized. I thought with all the Nomads here that drive offroad, some would think differently.
By the way I know the locals love the races, as do I. Except, of course, the ones that booby trap the course each year.
Ken |
I asked a question - who is making "lots" of money? Sponsors are involved for sure - they spend it. Rich race teams spend it. Not rich teams spend it.
So do the vounteers and the fans. Come on Ken, you're so smart, answer the question - back up your statement. Who is making lots of money? If you just
feel that people who can afford it should be charged more to "re" grade the roads, say so. I don't think you have a clue, just an agenda.
[Edited on 6-6-2007 by Roberto]
|
|
|
Bajalero
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
I started this thread as a supporter of Baja Racing. But it's hard to justify the condition of the roads after a race getting no attention at all.
Forget the tourists, most all of the locals travel these roads in 2 wheel drive vehicles. Try BOLA to San Fransisquito in a toyota tercel
sometime.
A lot of money is spent and made on these races, it wouldn't take that big a share to regrade the worst of the course at completion.
$250,000 to $500,000 depending on 500 or 1000 miles would go along way to repairing the course.
It should be a goal for the promoters to move in this direction. It could go along way to assuring that these races continue.
How about some input from the race fans on this?
Ken |
Ken , I have to respectfully disagree with you . Most Mexicans I've talked to about the course roads seem to be happy with there condition. Some are
no doubt in a little worse shape for the wear but it is Mexico and more or less a dirt road is a dirt road. It's not one of their priorities nor
obsessions.
On top of that, for me personally, the worse shape the better. Bad roads help weed out the weak competition and the tourists 
|
|
|
tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Roberto,
I have gotten your answer to my question
in spite of my cluelessness.
By the way do you feel good insulting someone who is asking a fair question?
Ken
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
