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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
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Solar for Dummies
Can anyone recommend an informative website or other resource that teaches the fundamentals of solar electrical system design and maintenance?
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Here are some basic informative sites.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/solar-cell.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power
http://www.westmarinesolar.com/
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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these guys ARE the BEST!!!!
http://www.partsonsale.com/
NO BS about prices...
i am importing a BUNCH of stuff today and tomorrow
they have a REAL business in victorville ca
i was just there a few weeks ago
repair facility onsite
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meme
Senior Nomad
Posts: 756
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: San Felipe,BC
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We too have a solar house here in San Felipe Bob & Susan. We have done quite a lot of business with your reccomendation & totally satisfied!
Especially with repair facility right on site means a LOT! We would sure reccomend them also.
meme
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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i learned ALOT from these guys in the begining....
http://www.backwoodssolar.com/
but they are on the east coast and the prices were too high
these guys do know how to talk about solar in a way you can understand
a couple things i found out...
don't get the biggest panels they make because if you have problems later you're screwed....and DONT get the smallest either
you'll never have room to place all the panels for your needs
also get an outback charge controler
its way more efficient and will require less panels saving you money in the long run
also get the BIGGEST storage batteries you can
the inital investment is high but in the middle of a cloudy week you'll be HAPPY you still have electricy
storage of electricy is the KEY!!!!
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Biggest batteries you can buy? To an extent, that's true, but if you overdo it, and end up in a situation where you never achieve 100% charge on the
batteries, you will shorten their life.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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you're right...
i mean surrettes (sp) the rolls royce of batteries $$$
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submarine_dbk
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 9-5-2006
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Have to agree with Bob and Susan.
Solatron (www.partsonsale.com) is the best source out there. We spent we'll over a year looking into our solar and I price checked every internet enabled
vendor I could find in the East, Southwest and even Canada. I believe for our system, we probably paid 1/3 to 1/2 less than a comparable system
would have cost anywhere else. And as Bob says, they are an actual storefront, hove nearly everything in stock (or can get it immediately).
Finally, more storage is always better for the long run. Go with quality and capacity in the batteries and spend time learning how to properly
maintain them. The difference in cost in the long run is well worth the added life.
Not certain I agree with Robertos statement on never achieving 100% charge, but I'm willing to be educated on this point.
I also second the Outback MPPT controller. The MPPT controllers are way more effective at converting panel voltages and current into what is actaully
usable to charge the battery. Very little conversion loss.
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Bajajorge
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2604
Registered: 10-13-2005
Location: Topaz Lake, NV/San Felipe
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There are dozens of how to websites. Solartron is a good one, but when you're ready to buy, search the internet. I've found price differences on all
items ranging into the hundreds. Also try to find a free shipping site. Solar set ups are not brain surgery, just remember Red positive, Black
negative, connect it up that way and you can't go wrong. When all else fails,
read the instruction sheet.
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bajadock
Super Nomad
Posts: 1219
Registered: 12-20-2006
Location: Punta sur de \'Nada
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ROI?
Anyone analyze the financial return on investment for solar electric? I did it for my last home in Colorado and it appeared to be a 10year ROI, but,
that was 10 years ago.
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El Camote
Senior Nomad
Posts: 514
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Above the clouds
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Mood: y Blues
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Panel array - Battery bank match
Gotta agree with Roberto on this one. It's all about matching your panel array to your battery bank. Over panel and you'll fully charge your
batteries earlier in the day but, with the array being your most expensive components, it's a waste of money. Over battery and you'll have a
difficult time reaching full charge, go into deep discharge more often, shorten the lifespan of the batteries and never be able to equalize with your
panels.
The magic number to remember is 12.16 or better off rounded to 12.2. That's 50% capacity for a 12v batt. and anything below that is considered a deep
discharge. Deep cycle batteries can withstand more deep discharges than other types but they still can only can take a limited number, I believe 350,
before they crap out.
Read everything you can get your hands on and ask specific questions on this board before you set up your system. There's a wealth of knowledge
available here. Two nomads specifically helped me immensely in my early solar days: Mexray is a battery dealer and knows his chiite about batteries.
And Bajabus is an installer and wrote me several pages of helping info. regarding maintenance and matching your battery capacity to your electrical
needs. I seem to remember on "Bob and Susan's" webpage there being a ton of helpful info. on the design of their system.
Good luck, DanO, and once you get it up and running there's no better feeling than generating electricity silently, pollution-free and while sitting
on your butt drinking a cerveza.   
Knowledge is good. - Emil Faber
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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i know NOW why now you don't want 40 marine batteries
its not the charging of them.... it's the cables....
too many....they corode very fast in the salt air
you have to clean the ends every month
and that takes a couple of HOURS!!!
the marine batteries DO WORK dont get me wrong
and...they are ALOT lighter
but...EVERY time i work with batteries my clothes get holes
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
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Thanks, all. I've got a gimpy system that needs some QC, so I'll have to sit down and crunch a few numbers and make sure my components are all
matched correctly. In the meantime, one more question -- what do folks do about electrolyte loss when away from the casa for extended periods, like a
couple of months? It was killing my batteries (yes, I have a charge controller), so I just unhooked the system while away last time and let them run
down. They are taking a charge now, but not as much as before. Any thoughts?
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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MPPT controllers are not effective in hot weather (i.e. Baja) There are plenty of articles about this all over the internet. The reason is simple -
solar arrays produce lower voltages in higher temperatures, and the differential between 12V and the solar array output is what the controller uses to
get the additional boost.
In more temperate weather, they are great. So, if you're looking for Solar for Mexico, save the money and stay away from MPPT.
As far as batteries that are never fully charged, there's info about that too. Another point is that if you never fully charge them, a percentage of
their capacity is wasted, correct? So I would go for an easily upgradeable system with some (say 20%) excessive capacity in the battery bank.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Has anyone considered Hydrogen storage instead of battery storage?
It seem more permanent ...but do not know about maintenance. It also solves the oversize cell and use of the excess solar hours.
Don't know about cost or size necessities neither....maybe someone else??
I guess, I don't know much
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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viabaja
Nomad
Posts: 277
Registered: 10-6-2003
Location: Georgia
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Don't forget the positives of Wind Generators for those cloudy days and at night. Money well spent!! Wind & Baja are synonymous!
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Here's another (partial) myth - Wind Generators. For Wind Generators to be effective vis-a-vis solar panels, a constant minimum wind speed of 20-30mph
is pretty much necessary. Even in places like Bahia de Los Angeles, where winds can reach 70+ mph, wind generators do not hold their own when compared
to solar panels. Sun IS a constant in Baja, wind is only in very few places.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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and wind generators are NOISEY even when windmilling
you'd be way better off with a guiet honda 2000 generator for those FEW cloudy days
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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I thought they were only supplemental to solar anyway...cloudy days...night time...rain.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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BajaRob
Senior Nomad
Posts: 722
Registered: 9-15-2003
Location: Bahia Santa Maria y Newport Or
Member Is Offline
Mood: Life is good
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24 volt
is the way to go. Voltage drop is greatly reduced and you can run twice the amps through your charge controller. Blue Sky makes a 50 amp MPPT charge
controller that can be set up for 24 volt input and 12 volt output. The Kyocera KC-130 panels that are made in Japan have sealed J boxes with plugs
that make it very easy to wire 2- 12 volt panels in series. We have 16- KC-120s & 130s which produce between 6-8 kw per day that is stored in 16
Trojan 105s. Our inverter is a Xantrex 4024. We are able to power an 18 cu/ft refer, 22 cu/ft refer, 32" TV, 2 computers etc. The most common error in
Baja solar systems is undersizing of wiring. 5% voltage drop is max and oversizing of wiring can reduce the drop to 1-2%. Backwoods Solar is located
in Sandpoint Idaho and has some unique items such as a 12 volt distribution panel that they build. They are a little pricey but their technical phone
support is excellent. Solartron is more competitive and they did a great job replacing the fets board on our original Trace 2512 inverter
[Edited on 7-10-2007 by BajaRob]
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