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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
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Bilsteins warratied for Baja offroad?
Are Bilsteins Baja-rated?
I just found out that my shock mount breaking off problems during my recent trip to Baja was caused by one Bilstein shock seizing. It's a Bilstein
BE5-6251-H5 extended articulation off-road front shock with 6.6-inch articulation. (My rear shocks have 10-inch articulation). The right front mount
broke off twice, while the left hand mount stayed put. The failing shock now can be compressed less than 2 inches only.
Any experiences with Bilstein replacing or not replacing failed shocks? It has less than 7000 miles, only 700 miles of which are Baja driven, and
probably less than 400 of that off-road related.
[Edited on 7-20-2007 by edm1]
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edm1
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I just found out from their website, this custom suspension off-road shock (5125 series) is warrantied only for 90 days. WTF. I'm replacing them with
different shocks.
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805gregg
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Location: Ojai, Ca
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I like Rancho shocks.
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Bruce R Leech
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Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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Bilstein are the worst thing you can have in Baja, they are nothing but trouble off rode. there is a reason that they only give you 90 days of
guarantee. but most wont last that long with off rode use.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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David K
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Hmmm... oh well, the 'stock' Bilsteins that come with the Tacoma TRD package have been fine...
On my first Tacoma (2001 2 door Xtra Cab) I would rate the stock suspention as superior. Really handled great driving at speed on washboard or other
rough stuff... Bilsteins were great on maintaining ground contact.
On my 2005 (new body style-bigger) 4 door Tacoma the rear springs are too weak... but the Bilsteins haven't failed.
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elgatoloco
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I have had Bilsteins on my 1999 F-250 for 6 years with NO problems. I have been off road a couple of times in Baja.
I had a set of two week old Rancho 9000's on a 1997 F-150 that did a self-destruct on the (old) road to Abreojos. Bought a set of Monroe's at the auto
parts in town, installed them between surf sessions, they were still on truck when I sold it three years later.
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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Roberto
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ANY shock can fail, given the right circumstances. That is the reason you want to buy a rebuildable shock if you are going to spend significant time
off-road. If they fail, you don't need to buy new ones.
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edm1
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
ANY shock can fail, given the right circumstances. That is the reason you want to buy a rebuildable shock if you are going to spend significant time
off-road. If they fail, you don't need to buy new ones. |
Better yet, I'll bring spare shocks.
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Roberto
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Bringing spare shocks is certainly an option, but I would make those cheapos.
BY the way, the overwhelming cause of failure in quality shocks is heat, and Bilsteins are most certainly quality shocks. On a rig as heavy as yours
on the road to Gonzaga, I would say it's a safe bet that yours did overheat.
I don't know how fast you were going, nor how loaded you were, but if you intend to continue taking trips like these I would look at the suspension on
that vehicle carefully or continued failure is a real possibility. Lastly, DRW vehicles are not known for doing real well in sand, not to mention that
lowering pressure on your tires significantly will cause rubbing and thus overheating - another potential cause of failure.
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viabaja
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ed1 - you really ought to do these Baja trips in cooler weather! There is a reason why a great many people (my self included) shut down & get out
of Baja for the summer. My 04 GMC 2500 HD has Bilsteins. Great shocks. However, I'm not running washboard roads or wherever when it's 90 to 100+
outside either for extended times. You will most likely overheat the stock Bilsteins. Carry 1 or 2 spares - cheap insurance. Or in the future, invest
in the high tech (expense) stuff or double/triple the mounts which has its negatives
Safe trip.
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TMW
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Whistler how do you cycle your suspension. I use a jack to extend it to see if the shock is extending enough, with the shock disconnected. But without
going to a shop how would you compress the suspension?
Some shocks are used to limit the suspension, which I think is dumb. I believe my GMC is one at least for the front. I've read this in the Rancho
shock guide. I replaced a front shock on my GMC and while bolting it on I jacked up the truck and found the shock was about an inch too short, I added
another rubber spacer on top and I'll see how that works.
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edm1
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whistler, et al.
I've accepted the proposition that, for my unusual rig, a trip like the one I did recently will eat up two pairs of shocks. And that's the cost of
driving all day in Baja offroad, in washboards, etc. My front Bilsteins could well be, like you say, too light valving for my rig. And I will replace
them with shocks made for heavier vehicles.
But the good thing about one of them is: IT SURVIVED A CONTINUOUS DRIVE IN THE HEAT OF SUMMER FROM 6:30 AM TO 8:30PM, FROM NORTH OF RANCHO PERCEBU and
INCLUDING THE OFFROAD DRIVE FROM PUERTECITOS TO GONZAGA TO COCO"S CORNER, stopping only for gas and at checkpoints and when I had to remove the one
whose mount came off. However, I did not go any faster than 10mph on the offroad trail. Add to that a 4-hour offroad trail drive 3 days before, from
La Rumorosa to Laguna Hanson and to Mex 3 which I did at 25-mph teeth-rattling drive at high tire PSI. However, upon closer inspection, the one that
survived lost its original stiffness but nevertheless still works(compresses, extends, absorbs shock).
One of the objectives of the trip was to test the extreme capability/integrity of the rig components. So to drive it in the heat of summer was
intentional.
[Edited on 7-21-2007 by edm1]
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by edm1
I've accepted the proposition that, for my unusual rig, a trip like the one I did recently will eat up two pairs of shocks. And that's the cost of
driving all day in Baja offroad, in washboards, etc. |
With all due respect that is ridiculous. The road you went down is just an average Baja dirt road that is in worse condition that usual. Nothing
spectacular, and there is NO reason on earth why you should have to "eat" two pairs of shocks just to go down it. Do you think the locals eat two
pairs of shocks each time they drive it in their ancient passenger vehicles?
The shocks failed because your rig is not set up correctly. I drive an F350 fullsize pickup and while it is now "set up", I drove down that road many
times in stock condition. And I'm sure the weight of our two rigs is not that far apart.
What you need is to talk to someone who understands suspension and the conditions you are likely to encounter on dirt roads south of the border, and
spend the time (and money) to do it correctly.
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Diver
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I would just get some Ranchos or Monotubes and make sure the suspension travel is not more than the shock travel; check all your mounts and check tire
balance.
If that doesn't work, go see a suspension master about any spring questions or modifications as your shocks are still working too hard.
They can also address the effects of excessive sway on your shocks/suspension as this may be a problem.
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edm1
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Roberto, I see where you're coming from. I do not doubt that my suspension is not setup properly. The rig is unique and is a prototype. The purpose of
these tests is to discover where it's not setup properly.
But think more of it. Your truck is stock and any aftermarket accessories (lifts, shocks, etc.) are made for your truck, making the end-result STOCK
or at least engineered and tested for your truck.
Mine is NOT stock - no one makes (mass-produce) a spindle, shock or lift, springs, or track bars for an RV that's 7.5 inches taller than an otherwise
normal RV. Many of the suspension parts had to be fabricated, tweaked to fit, mixed-and- matched. It is a PROTOTYPE. But the amazing thing is that IT
IS BAJA-rated now as far as I am concerned. And it's only the first test trip.
You (locals and other nomads) who drive that trail everyday have adjusted/adopted your vehicles so that you would not "eat" shocks. You guys air-down
15 to 20 psi and drive 40 miles an hour smoothly floating over the high-frequency amplitude (valleys and peaks) of the washboards. I consciously did
NOT do that. I drove through it at 40 PSI (my normal highway psi is 60psi, max is 110psi) and drove 10 mph for straight 7 hours. And considering my
tires are 19.5 14ply tires, my guess is that my tires' stiffness compared to yours - my 40psi vs your 20psi - would still be quadruple yours. In
short, you have a 4X advantage.
Perhaps when you have a chance to drive your stock truck and shocks with 19.5 14-ply tires at 40 psi, load up to 10,000 lbs and drive the trail for 7
straight hours at 10 mph. Then there will be a really faithful comparison as to the capability of your truck's suspension.
[Edited on 7-21-2007 by edm1]
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Roberto
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You're making all sorts of assumptions. I am not comparing anything I am just trying to say that EXACTLY because your truck is not stock, you need
someone who knows what they are doing to set it up or at least give you some idea of what you need.
In any case, I wish you the best of luck in your future "testing".
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Diver
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edm,
I do not understand;
I also have done some not-so-smart combinations of air pressure and speed on dirt roads when heavily loaded with a non-stock vehicle. I have never had
problems like you describe. Now, I think I am smarter.
1. Why do you need 14 ply tires ?
2. How is your rig heavier than an F350 SD crew with a fully loaded 10'camper ?
3. If you are truly looking for helpful suggestions, why are you defending your "tank" and taking shots at those who are trying to help ??
OK, so now I'm in trouble !!
I found that the specs for the F350SD are;
Front axle 6000 lb
Rear axle 7280 lb
DRW axle 9000 lb
.
[Edited on 7-22-2007 by Diver]
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by whistler
I run my tires at 40 psi front and rear.I run washboard at 50 plus mph.I have never run 7 hours but at that speed I figure my shocks are getting a
pretty good work out.We are saying that something caused the shock to fail.I do not think it was heat at that speed. |
At that speed, I would agree with you. I run Toto M/T 37*13.5r17 tires. Typically on washboard roads I keep them at street pressure (about 45 psi), or
go down to 35 to help smooth things out. These are BIG, stiff e-rated tires and you can hardly see any difference at all between 35-45 psi. I also run
washboard at similar speeds. My truck weighs 8500 lbs unloaded with 1/2 tank of diesel - I have a Callen camper on top. I figure that when I'm loaded
for a trip I'm 10K+ plus. I used to run Bilstein 7100, but now run Fox 2.0 (double up front) shocks. I also have a custom set of springs (not a kit)
made to order in Santa Ana, no blocks. These roads are where my rig comes into it's own. More fun to drive than on pavement, that's for sure. And, oh
yeah, my truck USED to be a DRW, but I converted it.
These are my parameters - in terms of weight and size (you are probably wider than I am) I don't think we are that far apart. I wouldn't want to drive
at such a slow speed on the Gonzaga road, but I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have such a catastrophic failure if I did. I am no suspension expert -
though I do know a couple who have helped me out. It sounds to me like edm1 wants to figure this out on his own - as a tinkerer, I can certainly
appreciate that. But, it could out to be a long, expensive journey, and if you get stuck in the wron place could be more than a little unpleasant. The
roads you travelled carry a lot of traffic on them daily - not all Baja roads are like that.
[Edited on 7-22-2007 by Roberto]
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edm1
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
edm,
1. Why do you need 14 ply tires ?
2. How is your rig heavier than an F350 SD crew with a fully loaded 10'camper ?
3. If you are truly looking for helpful suggestions, why are you defending your "tank" and taking shots at those who are trying to help ??
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Diver/Roberto, pls don't get me wrong, I'm not taking shots at anyone nor being defensive. I apologize if it seems or is actually that way. I am
driving at bringing the discussion forward so that more suggestions, criticisms, ideas, and even assumptions and misunderstandings such as this (stir
it up, so to speak) come in and get resolved. I'm truly looking for helpful suggestions like yours. Yes, it could have been put in a better way.
1. Why do you need 14 ply tires - As I said this vehicle is a prototype. And for a heavy vehicle, I felt more confident with 14-ply load rate G tires.
Now, with some test results, I may go 12-ply tires (load rate F) as they make those in 19.5, too. Is that what you're suggesting?
2. How is your rig heavier than an F350 SD crew with a fully loaded 10'camper ? Well, with your 9000lb F350 weight, I giuess not much difference.
However, I wasn't sure if Roberto's carried a fully loaded camper such as what you posted.
With Roberto's subsequent posts, things are getting more clear.
Please keep them coming. I need the help and I thinks your experience may be even more valuable than 90% of the suspension masters that I can find in
my area.
[Edited on 7-22-2007 by edm1]
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edm1
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
It sounds to me like edm1 wants to figure this out on his own - as a tinkerer, I can certainly appreciate that. But, it could out to be a long,
expensive journey, and if you get stuck in the wron place could be more than a little unpleasant. The roads you travelled carry a lot of traffic on
them daily - not all Baja roads are like that.
[Edited on 7-22-2007 by Roberto] |
Yes, to some extent. But I take your ideas, claims and criticisms seriously as input; however, I prefer if enough comparison metrics (like those you
and whistler have further provided, thank you) are provided.
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