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MrBillM
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Now THERE'S Irony !
Today's L.A. Times editorial regarding the ill-advised push towards Corn-Based Ethanol energy production discussed the negative effect on World food
prices and included this line.........."It also hurts Mexico which depends on U.S. corn for its Tortilla supply".
That is funny.
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DENNIS
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It's all a matter of priorities, MrBill. What's most important? Weaning ourselves of the need for Arab oil or, a good taco?
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Cypress
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Ethanol comes from corn. Corn doesn't grow on trees. Corn has to be planted. duh? Tractors need fuel to disc, plant etc. duh. Where does
the fertilizer come from? Where do the herbicides, the insecticides come from? How much water and energy does it take to convert corn into fuel? The hidden costs are well hidden.
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DENNIS
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Cypress.........
If by all that you mean that ethanol will cost more than Arab based gas, I say So What. We have to free ourselves from the Middle East. Can anybody
sanely argue that point?
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Cypress
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DENNIS. Good point!
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bajalou
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Some parts of the world - Brazil for one are gearing up the sugar cane production as they say it's a better product to make the ethanol from.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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MrBillM
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JEEZ !
I'm well used to threads going awry and I have, often as not, been a contributor.
The IRONY I was pointing out was the fact that Mexico has to have U.S. Corn for their Tortillas. I thought that
really funny.
The Ethanol question is another one entirely. Ethanol as a solid supply of alternative fuel is a JOKE. The targeted (and legislated) 2022 goal of 36
Billion gallons would alone require 96 million acres for production. The current corn production acreage (mostly for food) is 80 million acres. The
only remaining vacant acreage for production available is 37 million acres in the Federal Conservation Reserve Program. To have any realistic chance
of meeting the legislated goal would mean cultivating corn in place of other food crops. Rising fuel costs and rising corn prices have already
accounted for an increase of eight percent in retail food prices.
All vehicles produced in Brazil are now Dual-Fuel vehicles and the Ethanol (called alcohol there) is available at virtually EVERY gas station at
one-third the price of gasoline. Pure Ethanol usage is a problem because of its lower combustion factor and poor performance in colder weather.
That's the reason we're only promoting E-85 in the U.S.
Brazil is rapidly cutting down their rain forest to increase Sugar production. Imagine the howls from the Environmentalists IF the U.S. were to
encourage exponential increases in Brazilian production by working out an import deal for Ethanol. I can hardly wait for THAT debate.
Drill in the Arctic National Reserve, increase the amount of Clean Coal power usage and put Nuclear Power generation on the Fast-Track.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
The IRONY I was pointing out was the fact that Mexico has to have U.S. Corn for their Tortillas. I thought that
really funny.
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Oh, yeah........I get it. I suppose the impact of irony was dulled since I heard the same thing twenty years ago. I have no idea how long it's been
going on but, it isn't new.
You're right though. It is ironic. Since irony is the world in which we live, we may soon see that all Big Macs are made in Mexico.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by grover
I don't understand why we just don't separate hydrogen from water and use that for fuel. |
I don't think water burns.
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DENNIS
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Sorry, Grover..........Couldn't pass it up.
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David K
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Plenty of oil right here in the USA... Ask (your gov't. rep) why we can't drill for our own oil and be free of the Middle East... until gas and diesel
motors can be replaced by hydrogen
Grover has the future in mind, as water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen... Just get that liquid converted to those two gasses (simply) and
you got unlimited energy! Cold fussion is another hope for unlimited energy... someday!
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MrBillM
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TWENTY Years ? How time flies.
Not having run across that statistic twenty years ago as Dennis did, I was curious.
A U.S. government report on NAFTA dated 2002 (Five years ago for the math impaired), noted that U.S. Corn imports to Mexico had doubled since 1994,
substantially for farming uses, but also increasingly for Human consumption, resulting in Mexican sources claiming that One out of
Three (that's 33 1/3 % for the math impaired) Mexican Tortillas were being made from imported corn.
Since the figure Five years ago was One-Third and import figures were half that in 1994, it seems unlikely that the figure was very substantial 20
years ago (1987 ?).
Such is Irony.
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DENNIS
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Well, it seems like twenty years ago.
Anyway, it's a known indisputable fact that heat is the main cause of hyperbole.
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The Gull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by grover
I don't understand why we just don't separate hydrogen from water and use that for fuel. |
I don't think water burns. |
Salt water was recently shown to burn.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by The Gull
Salt water was recently shown to burn. |
That had to be at Rosarito Beach.
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BMG
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Don't expect ethanol
to have much impact on oil imports into the U.S. It takes almost 1 gal of fuel to produce 1.1 gal of ethanol from corn. Sugar cane has a much better
ratio.
Personally, I'm going to do my share by immediately switching to flour tortillas!
I think the world is run by C- students.
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toneart
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There are many alternative fuel sources that aren't being considered. It doesn't make me feel any better, any smarter or any smugger to know that the
anti-environmentalists are in the same boat as we who care. They are dead weight in the survivors' boat into the future.
It will take thinkers far smarter than the mouth-breathers who are presently running the show to irony the wrinkles out.
Regarding irony as humor, I don't find it funny when it comes at the expense of Mexicans or any people. 
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CaboRon
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I refuse to switch to flour tortillas!
- CaboRon
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MrBillM
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The Cost of Humor ?
I would be interested to see a statistical economic evaluation assessing the cost effects of humor (Irony or Otherwise) to Anyone,
especially in this case.
What am I missing that other "more sensitive" champions of humanity have discovered ?
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toneart
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OK, MrBill, I concede that the irony you sight is funny, but not the situation. And, I went around a corner by thinking, "Oh s**t! Mexico dependent on
the U.S. for corn?...What are they going to do? I realize that you didn't intend for anyone to go around that corner, or at least, you were confined
to the irony. I get it.
It seems most of us who have responded, including yourself, agree that ethanol is a bad idea for solving our fuel problems. They appear to be going
full bore ahead with the program. Follow the money.
I would think that the advent of Mexico being dependent on the U.S. for much of its corn was agreed upon in a NAFTA pact.
(Here, I am merely conjecturing). Don't you think Mexico can turn around their production of corn and be self-sufficient if big ol' Uncle Sam gives
them permission?
Jeez, if we get a Jones on for corn, maybe it could replace drugs as the next black market commodity from Mexico. 
Now that's irony!
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