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reefrocket
Nomad
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Idaho
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confused on owning property in Baja
Oky Doky --- I've probably read all this info. before --BUT due to advancing age or accumulative 'gray matter' damage do to "INKAHALL" ingestion.
Just a quick ??? if I want to buy property in Baja (coastal). I've got to go through all the FM2 stuff???
Could I get someone having a FM2 and presently owning prop. in Baja purchase for me?? --- I would hold a contract with them protecting my investment.
How would others go about this???
At present couldn't comply with some of the requirment of an FM2
need the $$$ to survive on what would be in a bank.
probably couldn't work on prop. myself --- being a TOURISTa???
(yes-work / no-no work)
[Edited on 15-9-2007 by reefrocket]
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
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Your FM2 really has nothing to do with your buying property in Baja and having it protected. You will need a fidiocomiso to do that and they run
about $5000 US the first year. However, you will need a FM3 if you plan to own or rent in BCS. As for working on your own property, yes you can.
There is now law against it. However, what you really can't do is to bring in US labor to work on your property---unless you get permission and your
contactor has papers to work in Baja. You cannot use someone to buy land on your behalf just because he has an FM2. You may be getting this mixed up
with the old Presta Nombre. This was where you used a Mexican partner to buy land....and as long as you got along with him and he was honest from the
beginning you were okay. Problem with that is---they didn't always work out. There are many posts on how to buy land it the archives here and I
would suggest you check them out. An FM2 is about $180 per year so if this is too much, I might suggest (with all due respect) that you may be better
off renting for a while as things always cost more than projected. Maybe buy a small trailer and rent the space for it from a Mexican. Hope this
helps. Iam sure you will get a lot more responses to your question on this thread.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Loretana
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Reefrocket
I purchased two pieces of property in Loreto in 2006 with my passport and a tourist visa (FM-T) as legal identification.
I have heard that you must have an FM-3 to get a fideicomiso, but they certainly didn't ask for it in my case. At least that is what I was told by an
officer at the Mexican Consulate in Portland. (cranky guy!!)
It seems that the individual Notario who administrates the transfer of title can choose to enforce the requirement or not. In my case, the Notarios in
Loreto and La Paz let it slide.
(If it is, in fact, the law?)
My properties were purchased from a Mexican citizen and an American citizen respectively. 
"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
-Nikola Tesla
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
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Selective enforcement of any so called "LAWS" is the scariest thing i can imagine!!
if it floats, barks, b-tches, effs, or has a roof...........rent it!!
if it flies own it - that way you know who's been operating it!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Don Alley
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My 2 cents:
You may purchase property (fideocomiso) with a plain old FM-T and a passport. No FM-3 required.
After the purchase, you must obtain your FM-3. I believe there is a statutory time limit.
One of the things an FM-3 allows is for the holder to leave personal property behind in Mexico when they go to the US. Otherwise, technically if you
leave a car, TV, fishing tackle, etc, behind it's legally abandoned. If that's true, renters may want to get an FM-3 as well.
It's cheaper and far more convenient, when living in Mexico full or part time, with a fideocomiso, to use an easily renewable $20 FM-T. But it's also
illegal, I believe.
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Hook
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From what we are experiencing over the last month in buying property near San Carlos, Sonora, Don's scenario is the closest to what we've done. A copy
of our FM-Ts was sufficient to get the purchase rolling but it was made clear by our RE agent and the notario to get the FM-3 process going ASAP.
The estimate of 5000 for a fideicomiso is much inflated from what we got and from what we have heard, first hand, from others. This includes those
buying a structure and the property (we only bought property). It is beginning to pay to shop around for fideis, as it is finally getting more
competitive. Banamex and Bancomer are no longer the only games in town, so to speak.
We are going with FM-3 lucrativas, as we entertain thoughts of working south of the border in our fields of expertise. We'll see how that goes as I
expect more is involved than just getting these specialized FM-3s.
As I understand it, an Fm-3 is the step between an FM-T and an Fm-2. You need to have an FM-3 for a few years before you qualify for an Fm-2.
[Edited on 9-16-2007 by Hook]
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gpm414
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You also have no legal rights under Mexican law with a FM-T, that is why the FM-3 is the minimum type of visa for an American owning property in
Mexico. Our fido is in process at this time and $4,000 to $5,000 may be close to the total cost when all fees, permits, taxes are accounted for.
I also worked with the cranky guy at the Mexican Consulate in Portland...got my FM-3 there.
[Edited on 9-16-2007 by gpm414]
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bajaguy
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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FM-3
Get the FM-3. Its relatively easy and cheap. I would plan on applying at the Mexican Consulate in San Diego. Apply on one day, pick up the FM-3 the
next.
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reefrocket
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Thank you all for your quick responses. Please keep it comming.
As I have no Consulate in or near Idaho. I think I will try to get a friend near me, that has the fore mentioned FM2?/3? to slow down and help guide.
I'm trying to get this needed info. in hopes that in a couple of years "uncle" will up my income to the point that I will be more
mobile. Right now it would be difficult to go to Baja yearly  (at this point I
will appologize for the term 'Baja' instead of "Baja California")
Thank you again, Reefrocket
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oldhippie
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This is from an email my immigration attorney sent me. Also, the Notario I used insisted upon a FM-3 before he would sign the paperwork and my real
estate attorney also advised me to get one. So maybe it's up to the Notario. It makes sense, if you're going to be living in Mexico, you're not a
tourist.
-------------------------------------------------------------
From a very sharp attorney licensed to practice law in the US and Mexico:
Even though FM2 documents are for immigrants and FM3 documents are for non-immigrants, and the categories within them are different along with their
respective requirements, in a practical sense they are almost the same. The reasoning behind this is that both provide permission to live in Mexico
for one year, they both can be renewed annually up to five years, and it takes the same amount of time (5 years) in order for you to acquire Mexican
nationality and citizenship.
In short, you can choose which ever FM2 or FM3 category you want and it does not make any substantial difference, except if you want to be employed
within Mexico only certain categories will do.
FM2 Rentista (Immigrant rentist)- When the immigrant plans to live off his own capital or the interest that it produces, coming from abroad or from
investments in Mexico (approx. $19,500 verifiable yearly passive income)
FM2 Inversionistas (Immigrant investor)- For immigrants that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $161,000.
FM2 Profesional.- For immigrants that will engage in professional economic activities in Mexico.
FM2 Familiares (Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that will be economic dependents of a Mexican national to whom they have close family
relationship.
FM2 Asimilados (Assimilated Immigrant Family member) – For immigrants that have been at least two years legally in Mexico and have a close family
relationship with a Mexican national.
FM3 Visitante Rentista (Rentist visitor visa)- When the foreign national plans to live temporarily in Mexico off his own capital or the interest that
it produces, coming from abroad or from investments in Mexico (approx. $12,000 verifiable yearly passive income)
FM3 Visitante Inversionista (Investment visa) – For visitors that have made an investment within Mexico. The investment must be of at least $105,000
if made in a business or $161,000 if made in real estate. The legal fee is $2400 and external expenses are $600. The legal fee can be considered part
of the investment.
FM3 Visitante Profesional (Professional worker visa) – For visitors that will engage in professional activities in Mexico. The legal fee is $2200 and
external expenses are $2500.
FM3 Otros visitants (other visitors) – For visitors that are not described in other categories and have a family relationship with a Mexican national.
[Edited on 9-16-2007 by oldhippie]
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docsmom
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Oldhippie,
Thanks. Great information for my future. But what if you want to live in Mexico and work in the US? What do you know about that? If it was in your
post and I missed it, sorry. Docsdad & I are not ready to retire, we just want to move to Baja, work in SD, and enjoy the next 5 to 10 years.
Thanks for any info you have.
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oldhippie
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You can live in Mexico and work in the states. You just need to show proof of income for a FM-3. I'm not sure about the amount that is necessary.
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reefrocket
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OLDHIPPIE --like wow -- thank you!
GULP-- I hope the figuers in the letter are Peso??? Pesos is doable 
an other ??? "The reasoning behind this is that both provide permission to live in Mexico for one year, they both can be renewed annually up to
five years, and it takes the same amount of time (5 years) in order for you to acquire Mexican nationality and citizenship -------is citizenship required?? or can iI just be a visitor till I croak.
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longlegsinlapaz
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Ribbet, ribbet....I've been here 8 years on an FM3! Citizenship is a personal
choice.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Reef
Them numbers are in US Dollars
Plus the initial cost of the FM-3 or FM-2 and yearly renewal costs
[Edited on 9-17-2007 by bajaguy]
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oldhippie
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Another thing to consider is that if you acquire Mexican nationality and citizenship, you no longer need a fideicomiso. You can get the property
transferred into your name. That's what I'm planning to do.
Therefore, maybe, the wisest move is to get an FM-3 or FM-2 as soon as possible even if the Notario in your area will close the deal with an FM-T.
I say maybe because having the property held in a bank trust makes it easier to sell to another foreigner. A trust can be transferred. That process is
much easier, faster, and cheaper than establishing a new trust.
It depends on your plans and the property. If you are buying a condo on the coast, keep it in a fideicomiso because if/when you sell, it will be most
likely to another foreigner. Most Mexicans with enough money don't go for the condo life-style nor do they want to live among foreigners.
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oldhippie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Ribbet, ribbet....I've been here 8 years on an FM3! Citizenship is a personal
choice. |
I think you may be breaking the law. If you have invested in real estate, you may want to stop laughing and find out for sure. You could become
another "statistic".
I don't think the fact that you were able to renew for more than 5 years will hold water if push comes to shove.
Remember, in Mexico you're guilty until proven innocent.
[Edited on 9-17-2007 by oldhippie]
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bajalou
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I think you're incorrect on this one oldhippie. When the 5 years are up on a FM3, immigration in this area at least, asks if you want to start
another FM3 or begin the FM2 precess. You can own property and still be a "Tourist" under the immigration laws.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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oldhippie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
I think you're incorrect on this one oldhippie. When the 5 years are up on a FM3, immigration in this area at least, asks if you want to start
another FM3 or begin the FM2 precess. You can own property and still be a "Tourist" under the immigration laws. |
That's why I started of the sentence with "I think". I'm not sure. After I wrote it I wondered about what you're supposed to do after five years. The
five year limit may be just to let the ones that aren't wanted anymore fall off the books. Thanks for correcting me.
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toneart
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It has been stated here before that it is best to get your FM3s issued at the immigration office that is in the jurisdiction where you own property;
not at a Mexican Consulate in the U.S. They all operate autonomously and seem to have their own set of "rules". You must report your address within
10 days of entry to your local immigration jurisdiction and also you must renew at that same office. If you arrive with a Consulate issued FM3, you
will find out how that is regarded by the local office......nothing that money and a redo won't cure.
...and this is done very courteously, with a smile. Needless to say, you must also be courteous and respectful. I know what thereof I speak!
(It is possible that not all offices operate in this manner....they are all different).
Another consideration: be sure you initiate your FM3 on a date in which you will always be in Baja for your annual renewal. You definitely do not want
to be late!!!
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