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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
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Mood: Anxious to get south
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Whole House Water Pump. 12v or 110?
Hi all, getting ready to purchase a whole house water pump for our new home.
Saw some nice ones at Grainger.com and got some prices. 4TB35 for 110volt and 4YD37 for the 12V.
They are both about $300 each, both use the same amps, both deliver the same flow and both are adjustable for pressure.
The house is solar with a Trace 1500 watt Inverter and a bank of 20 6-volt batteries.
Should I bypass the inverter and go directly 12 volt? That is more effeciant, right? Obviously it would make sense if the inverter took a dump on a
trip there...
Here in San Diego pumps are very difficult to get, there is not a big need for them so researching has been diffucult. I would prefer not to ship
either.
BobandSusan showed me here on Nomad their nice set-up which is 110Volt. Sweet system. But this is the man with a hundred batteries...
[Edited on 10-10-2007 by BajaWarrior]
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
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Location: South of the broder
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Several people here in San Felipe in solar areas have got rid of their 110V pumps and gone with 12V. Just as much water and uses less juice.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
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Mood: Anxious to get south
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Lou, what type are they using? RV Shurflo type or the accumilitave tank type?
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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RV type, Shurflo or FloJet with accumulator tanks.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
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Mood: Anxious to get south
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I checked out the Shurflo website. There are 5 differant types of Potable water pumps. The amperage ranges quite a bit, but the GPM stays about the
same. The shutoff pressure varies a bit too.
What exactly is the shutoff pressure? One of the pumps only draws 1 amp while two others draw 5.5 amps...Would one be more noisy than the other?
On my current home I am running a Whisper King which I am happy with, but the amps are high. Too high to run multiple pumps.
I want to run separate pumps to each (2) bathrooms, and one just for the kitchen sink. It seems when we are about to leave, the dishes are being
washed and everyone wants to take a shower including me before we hit the road. The extra one or two would also make nice backups in the event one
goes down.
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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Minnow
Banned
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Location: Lost Wages
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Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaWarrior
BobandSusan showed me here on Nomad their nice set-up which is 110Volt. Sweet system. But this is the man with a hundred batteries...
[Edited on 10-10-2007 by BajaWarrior] |
Rotflamfasoff
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Bajalero
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
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| Quote: |
What exactly is the shutoff pressure? |
The highest presuure the pump creates before it triggers itself to turn off
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Baja&Back
Senior Nomad
Posts: 549
Registered: 9-10-2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada / todo de Baja
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Mood: Rarin' to go South!
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Hmmm. Volt x Amps = Watts, right?
12 x 5.5amps = 66 watts.
110 x 5.5 amps = 605 watts
plus conversion loss in the inverter.
I'd go 12v. 
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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100 batteries...lets get real...
i have 76 batteries
oh yea...and 4 on the trailer
that's ONLY 80
our 110 pump uses 7 amps
the ones in town for sale use 9 amps
it REALLY depends on what your 1500 watt inverter can handle in amps
our 4000w trace handles 30 amps
we now have three of these 400w trace inverters
so three diferent systems
the WHOLE trick is the pressure tank
DONT just use a water pump but
put the pump on top of a pressure tank
then a smaller pump would be just fine
the pressure tank takes up the slack for the small pump
its like an air compressor
the pump MUST "keep up" with the use though
if it doesnt your appliance might "run out of water"
remember a bigger pump runs LESS time
and thus takes less current
it's like a pool heater
a small one takes days to heat a pool
a BIG DOG takes just a few hours
thus using WAY less fuel
bottom line you NEED a bigger inverter and more batteries
if you want to play you HAVE to pay
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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Anyone tried the variable speed Shurflows ?
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BigWooo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 579
Registered: 1-2-2007
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Wow!, while I was writing this there were 8 responses! Oh well, I’ll post anyway.
110-volt pumps will give you just about unlimited pressure and volume, but at the cost of energy use. If you have a big family, want to run multiple
water sources simultaneously, and your system has enough energy output/battery storage a 110-volt pump would probably be preferable.
We have a Conergy 12v booster pump (about 4.3gpm) set at 20/40 psi, with a 90-gallon pressure tank (about 35 gallon draw down). We can shower and run
the kitchen sink simultaneously, no problem. With the pressure tank full, we can run two showers simultaneously, however with the pressure tank low,
or filling, we can still take two showers, but there is a noticeable pressure loss. If running one shower you can hardly tell if the pressure tank is
full/low or filling.
In our old house we had a Surflow deluxe 12v pump, It didn’t perform as good as the Conergy pump we have now.
Unfortunately, being in San Diego, if you get a 12v pump, I think you’ll probably have to have it shipped. Look at http://backwoodssolar.com/ or http://store.solar-electric.com/ two of my favorite places to shop for solar stuff.
I looked at the 12v Grainger pump you mentioned and it has good gpm flow, but I think you’ll be disappointed with the size of the pressure tank. That
looks like a 2-gallon tank (or smaller). That’s ok for a single point use, like a sink, but for an entire house, depending on your use, you will need
between a 40 to a 110-gallon pressure tank to provide smooth pressure (an 80 gallon tank you’ll get about 30 gallons of water before the pump needs to
kick on to refill it). With the tank Grainger provides, the pump will constantly be running when you open a faucet for any length of time. Also, with
a tank that small, there may be fluctuations in pressure when the pump cycles causing water temp and pressure to vary up and down when you’re taking a
shower.
One thing I’d be careful about is that Grainger says what size fuse they use (15 amps) but they don’t specify how much power the pump is actually
drawing. The energy use will be less than 15 amps, but they don’t specify what. Also 15 amps at 12 volts does not equal 15 amps at 110 volts.
You need to convert amps to watts to truly compare the energy use of the pumps, using 15 amps for an example:
15 amps at 12 volts equal 180 watts used in one hour of running the pump,
15 amps at 110 volts equal 1650 watts used in one hour of running the pump.
That’s a BIG difference in energy use. Hope this was helpful and not confusing.
[Edited on 10-14-2007 by BigWooo]
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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
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Mood: Anxious to get south
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I'm planning on adding another invertor, basicaly, a second one. The old Trace just keeps on chugging along so why replace it, I'll just add another
one and split the power between the old house, new house, and garage.
I've been limping along with a count of 12 batteries and we've done pretty good, so, I'm going for the fresh 20 this year.
Thanks BobandSusan, actually my very first post here on Nomad was the question of which type of water pump to get, thanks again for the info. Go for
the recount on the batteries, include the trucks, cars , boats, golf cart, atv's, you'll come up with a hundred!
Thanks Bajalero, that's what I thought.
Thanks Baja&Back, good math to live by.
Minnow, HUH?
BigWoo, thanks for taking the time...good stuff.
Keep em' coming gang.
[Edited on 10-10-2007 by BajaWarrior]
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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wornout
Senior Nomad
Posts: 595
Registered: 10-24-2004
Location: San Felipe, Baja California
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Mood: No Bad Days
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
Anyone tried the variable speed Shurflows ? |
I have one and don't really like it. It works fine but is drawing power all the time. It throttles up slowly which is nice. I run two 30 gallon
pressure tanks. I got one of them with the 110v pump I got from Sears years ago and the other one was given to me. I switch between the 12v and the
110v depending on if the generator is on, like when I pressure wash something.
This Space Available, E-Mail Me If Interested.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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In your new batteries consider 2 volt cells...despite what has been said, 2 volt batteries represents the most economical and least wiring of all...12
volt batteries...the worst possible construction technique. IMHO
A 2v battery @ 20 hr rate is 2040 AH.......328 lb weight...20" deep 8 1/2" wide 26 1/2" high about 30 sq feet floor space...=12 volts
@12 volts=12240 AH @20 hrs rate...cost $8500
@24 volts=24480 AH @ 20hrs rate Cost $17,000
$0.69.5 cents per amp hr. for 20 years.........
Fill 432 cells with water
FILL 48 CELLS WITH WATER....
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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if you finally go the 12v be sure to remember to use a thick cable to the pump...
about as thick as your thumb...for ANY distance
the wire gets HOT with the smaller voltage
110v you can use smaller cables to the pump
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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i bought stuff at grainger
ordered it and had it shipped to the store
then picked it up
no problem
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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Anxious to get south
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I still like your pump Bob and Susan, it would be nice if it was as easy as just going to the hardware store and picking one up.
I hate ordering stuff, I need to touch it then process it before purchasing it.
Thanks for the tip on the wire guage, already thinking that. Pump(s) will be within 10' of power plant.
Even the Romex i'm running is 12/2, hard on the ole' fingers stuffing it back into the gang box, plus it increased the cost of our outlets. It isn't
as pliable (sp?) as the 14/2.
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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BigWooo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 579
Registered: 1-2-2007
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Here's a link to some charts that can help determine what wire size you need for the pump, or anything else:
http://www.solar4power.com/solar-power-volt_drop.html
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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our pumps arrived today...
no water pressure shortage here
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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Anxious to get south
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Nice Bob, I take it your putting one in for each of your units.
I just checked the Flotec website. I'm guessing those are the 15 gallon models. Not seeing any prices, how much $? Saw the one that has a 42 gallon
tank also, it is 230 volt but says it can be converted back to 110.
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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