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tehag
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Border fence
PBS News:
A Mexico immigrant-rights leader says building fences doesn't control illegal immigration. Activists on both sides of the border are getting together
Sunday at the westernmost stretch of the border fence between San Diego and Tijuana. KPBS Reporter Amy Isackson has the story.
Robin Hoover founded the Humane Borders Group, which mans 87 water stations along migrant routes in the Arizona-Mexico desert. He'll speak at a
protest Sunday. He says building fences along the border is an arcane concept.
Hoover: It doesn't work. It's not even a manpower multiplier cause you could do a whole lot of this electroncally if you wanted to do that. It
just sounds good to Washington but it doesn't look good and doesn't work well down here.
During the last four years the federal government has built more than 100 miles of fencing in Arizona. Hoover says the barrier has simply pushed
illegal immigrants into more dangerous areas. He says on average this year, migrants died 4 1/2 miles away from a road. He says that's compared to
seven years ago, when most bodies were found less than a mile and a half away. More than 400 illegal immigrants have died trying to cross the border
so far this year. Amy Isackson, KPBS News.
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MrBillM
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Border Control
One of the stated purposes of the Border Fence Project has been to construct the fencing in such a way as to force crossings into less hospitable
territory, thus allowing the climate and terrain to serve as a part of the control system.
It seems to be working as expected and will continue to have a positive deterrent effect.
Future fence construction is built around this same model. There is some territory in Texas considered so in-hospitable that no physical barrier will
be required.
We are ALL responsible for the decisions (small and large) that we make and each will determine whether the gamble is worth the risk.
Makes Dollars and Sense.
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Barry A.
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Well said, Mr. Bill, and you are absolutely right.
In addition: we understand that not all illegals will be stopped by the "fense", but it will surely slow them down, stopping many, and helping to
secure the border, which IS the sole aim of this multi-level endeavor, and LONG overdue.
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DENNIS
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Funneling people into harms way is unconscionable. It isn't securing the border by being punitive and cruel. It's letting the murderous side of
nature do the job that our government has been mandated to do. They should be herded through safe areas so they could be effectivly apprehended and
deported. Oh but, who in the hell in our government ever wanted to anything humane or sensible let alone what they've been told to do.
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Bajafun777
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Ok, I am missing something here  , why is it our responsibility to make sure
that people that are breaking our laws are helped to do so as easily as possible???? If I or anyone else engage in an illegal act towards another
country we take on those risks. Sometimes I just shake my head at things people want us to be responsible for. I do not want to see anybody for any
reason be exposed to wrong, death situations, torture,etc. However, if illegal immigrants are willing take on these risks to knowingly do something
illegal and wrong, then the terrible outcomes would fall on them not our country. There is enough information on radio, in newspapers, on television,
and government sign postings to warn of the dangers of entering illegally through these dangerous land areas. They are rough and dangerous to where a
fence is not built on those areas. Our country does not have to herd anyone from a foreign country anywhere and in fact Mexico needs to step up it's
enforcement to prevent these illegal crossings into our country. Let each country respect each others borders and hopefully then nobody dies, gets
injuried or needs to be rescued for taking these risks. Later----bajafun777
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juangrandebigjohn
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Bravo Dennis!
The fence is an insult to the Mexican people.Right now I am on the frontier of Las Palomas ,Chihuahua,Columbus,New Mexico.The fence is hideous!The
Mexicans welcome us,and we put up a wall,both literally and figuratively.I have never had a problem with Mexicans customs in hundreds of crossings,but
innumerable hassles with USA Customs,instead of the wall,we needed to put our efforts into faciltitating green cards for willing,able,and greatly
needed workers!An excellent film en Espanol is "Una Dia Sin Mexicanos" depicting life in the USA without Mexican workers,very realistic.
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bajaguy
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Same treatment
Maybe we should treat those who illagally cross our southern border the same as Mexico treats those who illegally cross their southern
border.......quid pro quo
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajafun777
Ok, I am missing something here , ---- |
Yes...You are. If you think for a minute that I'm being liberal on my views of illegal immigration then, you havn't paid attention, past or
present.
Nobody here is more vocal than I about securing the border but I think it's ineffective, counter-productive and cruel to, by design, send these
people into a lethal setting just because we choose to leave it unguarded.
What's wrong with catching them as they enter instead of making a game out of it? "If they can get through here, they can have it." That is pure
crap.
We have no responsibility to offer safe passage. In fact, the idea is felonious. But, we do have an obligation to ourselves to act humanely. We
arn't running a dog pound.
Close the border but, don't send people to their death.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by juangrandebigjohn
The fence is an insult to the Mexican people.Right now I am on the frontier of Las Palomas ,Chihuahua,Columbus,New Mexico.The fence is hideous!The
Mexicans welcome us,and we put up a wall,both literally and figuratively.I have never had a problem with Mexicans customs in hundreds of crossings,but
innumerable hassles with USA Customs,instead of the wall,we needed to put our efforts into faciltitating green cards for willing,able,and greatly
needed workers!An excellent film en Espanol is "Una Dia Sin Mexicanos" depicting life in the USA without Mexican workers,very realistic.
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Hold it Big John...... You've got me really wrong here. You can call the fence an insult if you wish and if it is, I couldn't care less. Haven't
you noticed the insult by the Mexican government when they prompt their people to crap all over our laws? Legal immigration, Big John, legal
immigration.
Havn't you found a woman to play around with yet?
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ELINVESTIG8R
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I am a Gringo and I was an Illegal Alien in Mexico for 11 years when I was a kid so I cast no stones. I do empathize with the Mexican people coming
over here to find a better life. We probably should reinstitute the Bracero Program so they can come over legally to work and have the same rights we
have with regards to wages and other worker rights.
[Edited on 11-24-2007 by ELINVESTI8]
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juangrandebigjohn
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Central americans in Mexico.
Having spent extensive time in Guatemala,Belize,Honduras,El Salvador,Nicaragua,Costa,Rica,Panama,Ecuador,Peru,I have spoken with many Central
Americans and a few South Americans who crossed into the USA via Mexico.Most got through police stops and checkpoints with a mordida of 50 to 200
pesos and most eventually got there,while this is not great,it is more humane than a Wall and forcing folks to die in the desert. Of course some were
badly mistreated and jailed in Mexico,but those were in the minority by far in extensive conversations.
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Bajafun777
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Again Dennis, I and the U.S. are not sending anyone to their deaths. No we are not running a dog pound and in trying to be everything to everyone and
not hurting anyones feelings or preceived rights we have no control anywhere. I guess we will agree to disagree as the fence can not be built in the
areas where their is no fence as the terrian is too rough. Even if we "funneled" through an easy opening where they would be getting caught, guess
what, they are going to cross through this area of dangerous terrian anyway. Just the nature of the beast trying to do something they know is illegal
and wrong. Let's see we send Mexico millions of dollars in aid to Mexico, do millions of dollars in business with them, help build sewer plants and
water plants, allow them to use our schools and colleges, and still we need to do more in regards to illegal immigration??? I think we have done all
that can be done and again it's time for Mexico to step-up and do its part to stop these illegal crossing along the U.S. and Mexico border. Generally
I am in agreement on most of your comments but I can not buy into this one, sorry amigo. Later------------ bajafun777
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by juangrandebigjohn
Of course some were badly mistreated and jailed in Mexico,but those were in the minority by far in extensive conversations. |
The majority just weren't caught at the south Mexican border. Now....If you want to discuss inhumanity, talk about the Mexican border patrol down
south. They have it down. Instead of giving out brutal beatings, they should be dealing out green cards to their guests.
You see Big John? Mexico only has one border. The southern one. They don't have one to the north. How does that work?
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajafun777
Again Dennis, I and the U.S. are not sending anyone to their deaths. |
I agree. They have to be stopped. Good. On that we agree but, tell me something BF...If you throw a man into a snake pit, are you going to blame
the consequences on the snakes?
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DENNIS
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I'm going to Sharkys but, I'll be back!!!!!!!!!!!
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juangrandebigjohn
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ELINVEST18,Sure agree about the Bracero program,the person mainly responsible for sequelching that program was governor of California at the
time,Ronald Regan...another bad President later on(good actor,though)should have stuck with that!
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Bajafun777
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Again, I am not throwing anyone anywhere, this is a free will choice that people are making with or without a fence. On that I will pop one and
pretend I am at Sharkys with you. Take care amigo. Later----bajafun777
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juangrandebigjohn
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by juangrandebigjohn
Of course some were badly mistreated and jailed in Mexico,but those were in the minority by far in extensive conversations. |
The majority just weren't caught at the south Mexican border. Now....If you want to discuss inhumanity, talk about the Mexican border patrol down
south. They have it down. Instead of giving out brutal beatings, they should be dealing out green cards to their guests.
You see Big John? Mexico only has one border. The southern one. They don't have one to the north. How does that work? |
True,most are not caught at the border in the South,and true there are brutal beatings,certainly terrible but relatively rare.As for
Northern border,if there was not work,Mexicans would not come,you need to see the film "Un Dia Sin Mexicanos,the USA economy would be in choas
literally without them.
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ELINVESTIG8R
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| Quote: | Originally posted by juangrandebigjohn
ELINVEST18,Sure agree about the Bracero program,the person mainly responsible for sequelching that program was governor of California at the
time,Ronald Regan...another bad President later on(good actor,though)should have stuck with that! |
I loved Reagan and I Voted for him for President.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
One of the stated purposes of the Border Fence Project has been to construct the fencing in such a way as to force crossings into less hospitable
territory, thus allowing the climate and terrain to serve as a part of the control system.
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how is this morally different than using mine fields?
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