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Howard
Super Nomad
Posts: 2353
Registered: 11-13-2007
Location: Loreto/Manhattan Beach/Kona
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.
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Loreto property problems
Has anyone heard of any major problems with the Ejido taking back properties all along the ocean front north of town? I just got a extremely
disturbing news that they are trying to pull a fast one. Unfortunately I am in the States and can not confirm that this has actully happened.
Anybody hear anything or if you are there, can you poke around and see what's going on.
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Bob and jane
Nomad
Posts: 272
Registered: 3-25-2004
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Something is definitely going on. Apparently all (or most?) ejido property in Loreto is reverting to ejido members on Jan. 8. If you bought ejido
property and are not a member of the ejido, you could be "grandfathered" and allowed to keep your property if you had applied for title by Friday,
Dec. 21. Application for title had to be made in La Paz. We have NO idea if this applies only to Loreto ejido lands, all of Baja Sur, or what. We
were and are incredulous. We didn't believe it when we first heard about it, but have been convinced by some very credible sources. We are still
short on details. This is all I know at this point.
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jorgie
Nomad
Posts: 430
Registered: 8-25-2006
Location: on another road,again
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Mood: on the road....again,again
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WOW..............yesteraday being the 21st........no word from La Paz agent/legal type ?????
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Loretana
Senior Nomad
Posts: 825
Registered: 5-19-2006
Location: Oregon/Loreto
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Mood: alegre
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Credible sources
Bob and Jane
Would you care to mention who these credible sources are?
It seems strange that there has been no mention of this in El Sudcaliforniano or from any locals I know who are members of the
Ejido..........including the former Regidor, who is a dear friend. ????
"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
-Nikola Tesla
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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The only thing I heard was about five years ago when the Ejidateros first started selling these lots. The Ejido felt that the property was sold too
fast by some of their members and sold far to cheap and they were unhappy about it. I also heard that Pres. Fox got wind of it and he was upset about
it and wrote or sent someone to talk to the Ejido. The Ejido officers at that time were not like the ones we have had for the past four years or so.
Now they are very businesslike and honest people. These officers and the officers just before them are good people and do business by the book. I
was warned not to buy at that time (could be more than five years ago) as there would be problems in the future. Some of those lots sold for $5,000
on the beachfront. Penada real estate had his signs all over that property. Also, some of the property (just a few lots) were given by the Ejido
President to non-Ejido friends illegally. There was alot of talk about this back then. This Ejido will probably try to work something out with those
that bought in good faith. Our Ejido isn't like some of the others and seems to be very fair in its dealing with people. Could all be b.s. or could
be a major problem for those that bought in the very beginning.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10605
Registered: 10-3-2003
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For $5K it would have been worth the risk.
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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Worth the risk? Not if you are going to build a permanent structure on it. Lets say you put up a very small house.....1,000 sq. feet. That will run
you about another $40 to $50K. Some lots went for even less---depending on how desperate the seller was for beer money back then. The front lots on
Playa Salenita (the beach south of Col. Zaragosa) are going for a minimum of $50,000 and most are over $100,000. Also, the City of Loreto as well as
the Ejido will tell you what your property is worth so the days of the good deals are pretty much over.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capn.sharky
Also, the City of Loreto as well as the Ejido will tell you what your property is worth so the days of the good deals are pretty much over.
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It's always wonderful when a government entity tells you what your property is worth, rather than the market conditions. 
Nothing like an ejido reclamation project to send buyers fleeing......
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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"Nothing like an ejido reclamation project to send buyers fleeing...... " I hope so.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Use time on your side, put gentle pressure, persist, pursue, make a fence, pay your property tax, water and any bills (to prove you own it) and it
will always work out in your favor.
[Edited on 12-23-2007 by gnukid]
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
It's always wonderful when a government entity tells you what your property is worth, rather than the market conditions.
Nothing like an ejido reclamation project to send buyers fleeing...... |
It's more like the city telling people the approximate market rate, so people don't sell $50,000 worth of land for $6,000. Beachfront and ranches have
been sold to people who convinced sellers that they were paying a fair price at 10% of the market value.
Some people here would welcome adjustments to the ejido lots on the beach north of town, to allow for some public access. When they subdivided the
land into lots, they cut the rest of their land off from the water. In the long run, that will cost them big bucks.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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I can't imagine that if the sale was done by the book with a notario, that the city will support the ejido in renegotiating these deals that have now
been deemed to have been "under market value". Under market value when? Something like that could put a real chill in the resale market. I realize
that many gringos (like the Capn) who bought in long ago wont be affected as their initial price was way lower than even 5 years ago.
This will be interesting to see how this shakes out.
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Howard
Super Nomad
Posts: 2353
Registered: 11-13-2007
Location: Loreto/Manhattan Beach/Kona
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.
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Happy Holidays.
To our knowledge we have done everything as gringos we were supposed to do. We formed a Mexican Corporation using the Loreto Notario. We used the
Notario in Loreto for all legal paperwork. We used the local accountant in Loreto to file papers. Just recently we put a fence around the property.
We got our FM 3s. It has not been a year quite yet so we have NOT paid out property taxes yet. There are no improvements on or near the property, so
we do not have utility bills. We are going down in 2 or 3 weeks to Loreto and will certainly try and pay property taxes in advance.
We bought the property through Dorado Properties (before they had an office in town) and it will be interesting what their support (if any) will be.
Any suggestions out there? We were not one of the people who bought the property cheap. I will not reveal exactly what we did pay but it was most
definately over $100,000!!
Looking for any feedback and suggestions.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Howard, what does the Mexican Corporation exist for? What is the Business the corporation plans to own and operate? As I understand it, it can't
legally be for the purpose of building a single family dwelling in which the owner (corporate head) will one day live. I have read all the posts by
Skeet, Capt. George and others who have taken that route but I am still not convinced it is in accordance with modern Mexican law as it stands today.
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Bob and jane
Nomad
Posts: 272
Registered: 3-25-2004
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Howard,
Nothing will change between now and when you arrive. We were told by one realtor that periodically there are these "issues" that crop up with the
ejidos. This one may blow over and may not. It may evolve. There are many unknowns at this point. We DON'T own ejido property. We have always
felt wary about getting involved with it. But we have friends with ejido lots, which got us involved in this. I'm not being coy when I don't name
sources, but we don't want to get any more in the middle of issues than we already found ourselves. I would just take a deep breath and wait till you
get down here, then start digging into it with people you trust.
Good luck!
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ncampion
Super Nomad
Posts: 1238
Registered: 4-15-2006
Location: Loreto
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Mood: Retired and Loving it
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We also own property using a Mexican Corporation. When we build, it will officially be a "Bed and Breakfast" as advised by our attorney. We may make
some money and we may not - such is the business world. We also plan to make other real estate investments in Mexico under the name of the
corporation. We file tax reports every month. We think it will stand up to scrutiny, if in fact there is ever any.
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Marla Daily
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 9-2-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Loreto Ejido information
Our investigation yesterday regarding ejido lots north of town reveals the following:
-The presidenta of the Ejido, Piedad, knew NOTHING of this chisme.
-The Domenio Pleno has not been finalized for the lots north of town by the ejido, hence titles cannot yet be issued.
-No agency can trump the mesa of the ejido. This action, as reported, cannot be taken without full knowledge and vote of all ejiditarios in a
tribunal. (The Loreto ejido, to my understanding, has about 127 members.)
There was a rumor in town last week which sent several ejido lot owners fleeing to La Paz with their certificados. One Mexican friend who went to Las
Paz the day before the alleged "Friday deadline" told us he submitted his five original certificados, paid approximately 350 pesos per lot, and is now
expecting his titles—he is all set. His titles will come in his name and not in the name of the original ejiditario. (He was NOT an ejiditario,
however he became "avesindado" by ejido vote as required for transfer of certificado from ejiditario to a Mexican outside the ejido.)
Few people made this "deadline" or even knew about it. Word from inside the ejido is that the process will continue once the La Paz offices reopen in
January (probably the 7th??) after the holidays. It is thought someone mistook the "deadline" as the date after which offices close for several weeks
of holiday season.
THIS DOES NOT ADDRESS CORPORATIONS about which I know very little. We did not go this route with our beach lots north of town. Accounting rules are
too complex for us to want to deal with on a monthly basis. (We remember MANY years ago when Skeet had a surprise visit from Federal auditors to see
his "corporation" books!!)
Like many of you, we will wait and see what the reopening of the office in January reveals.
IT ALWAYS HELPS TO BE ABLE TO VERIFY INFORMATION FROM THE SOURCE. So how did this get started?
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10605
Registered: 10-3-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capn.sharky
Worth the risk? |
Damn sure. Don't be dumb and put a structure on it. Sit on it.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Putting a structure increases your established ownership of tenuous land ownership, unless someone squats in your home and takes it over. A bill of
some kind wold help.
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Marla Daily
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 9-2-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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ADDITIONAL LORETO EJIDO INFORMATION
The ejido has an assemblea January 6 when they are to decide the amount of "fee" that will be required to get title to ejido lots that have
Certificado Parcelarios.
Some titles HAVE been issued already. Those who made it to Reforma Agraria by Dec. 21 are exempt from any ejido fee. [According to one Mexican friend
who has titles in hand, Sashelly left the Reforma Agraria and her replacement began issuing titles, thinking Domenio Pleno (title permission) had been
done already by Loreto ejido, when in fact, it hadn't.] So those who submitted their original Certificados for title are home FREE. We know of four
friends who took the bus to La Paz Thursday night and submitted their certificados Friday to beat the fee. Word only got out Thursday in Loreto.
It remains to be seen what all others will be required to pay. Stay tuned.
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