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greta-inbaja
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Posts: 132
Registered: 7-19-2006
Location: Truckee, CA
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enviromental report
Hello all,
We are starting the permit process for our casa in Baja Sur. We are about 10 miles south of Cabo Pulmo. The prices for the enviromental report that
I have heard from others have been pretty high. Has anyone had one done recently??? I'm trying to find our what to expect money wise.
Thanks,
Greta
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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i was at profepa today in la paz
report follows
here is the guy how finished my problem...
he was the lawyer for profepa last year
he will answer your questions and
can put you together with someone that will
complete your enviormental permit quickly
no BS
email him
Manuel Barajas
manuelbarajas@hotmail.com
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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Lomas Centenario....1,600 sq meter property....7 months....approximately $5,000....yes I'm serious! This was done totally
legally through SEMERNAT. Applied first week in December 2006 & finally received "blessed" paperwork authorizing clearing of land for
construction to begin on June 30, 2007. And my builder did 99% of the legwork & follow-ups for me....gratis. So that total cost does not include a fee
for any "agent" time. That is purely the cost for the reports, studies, site visits required by SEMERNAT! Unfortunately, I fell into the time frame
of the infamous head honcho change in the office when the only person with signing approval in the La Paz office was transferred to Mexico City, so
that added 2-3 months of time sitting in a pile awaiting the new signing authority's arrival!
BTW....SEMERNAT fees for SEMERNAT personnel to do the entire process & reports are nearly double the cost of finding authorized people independent
of SEMERNAT to do the reports & generate the study for SEMERNAT's final blessing!!!
EDIT: Yes, that is USD!
EDIT #2: Checked my spreadsheet & corrected cost!
[Edited on 2-19-2008 by longlegsinlapaz]
[Edited on 2-19-2008 by longlegsinlapaz]
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greta-inbaja
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Posts: 132
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Location: Truckee, CA
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Thanks longlegs. That is pretty much the ballpark numbers I have been hearing . A least living in California, we are very good at jumping through
hoops. Our taxes also went way up.. Our Baja property is now classified as "oceanfront" ... we are 10-15 walk through the desert (no road) to the
beach. We are also now classified "urban.". We are 45 minutes from san Jose, 45 minutes from La Ribera, on a dirt road with no power. I guess we
have Mucho work ahead of us and we sure are gettin good at hoops.
Thanks again for the input
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longlegsinlapaz
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Location: La Paz
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Greta.....I think that's "Urbano", which is SUPPOSED to mean the property is buildable...different interpretation than we're used to! What
they don't tell you is that they supposedly screwed up & a LOT of properties were assigned an Ubrano designation by mistake & despite the fact
that the title states it's Urbano, many (ME included) still have had to pay again to have the official Urbano designation...how much
more legal/official can it be than showing on the original title & in Catastro's records?? Nonetheless, I jumped through those hoops & paid
it to stay legal! Sometimes it seems like they get us coming & going!!
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Bob and Susan
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i was quoted $25,000 for an enviormental report... twice...go figure
now...here's our story
we were "not in compliance" when Profepa came this summer
and "cited" 90 out of 100 property owners here on the bay in mulege
we were required to post a $21,000 bond to complee construction
this was returned yesterday after paying a smaller fine and completing a damage report
the first lawyer we got from mexico city "did nothing" for 5 months
watch out...there is stll alot of lawyers that cannot complete the task
our "new" lawyer got us a "resolution" letter in just a week from Profepa
Manuel Barajas
manuelbarajas@hotmail.com
manuel worked for Profepa as the lawyer
Capt Mike flew me to La Paz and back on Thanksgiving day!!!
what a day!!!
This letter stated what our fine was and what was to be included in the "damage report"
Manuel arranged to have the the damage report done from someone he "knew" could complete it correctly and quickly
this data and the fine was submitted monday...
our "bond" was returned from Profepa as promised
it was an easy process as manuel
had it ALL set up in advance and
walked me through the entire thing
This law... ALL construction must begin with an enviornmental report...
has been around since 1988
it was just not enforced until now
if you fight the fine and do not follow the procedures in the resolution letter you could be "cited: the next time...it WON"T be over
if you live in a development with sub-divided lots
the develpoment can get the enviormental permit for the entire project
or
each homeowner can get their own
whetever you do... do not let people tell you this permot is NO NEEDED in your area
they are WRONG!!!
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longlegsinlapaz
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Bob, are you talking pesos or dollars????
My builder helped some friends who had a PROFEPA stop-work order issued on their construction & the maximum fine is supposed to be $10K
(equivalent USD). They too had to post the bond to complete their work & after they jumped through all the hoops, it was refunded.
I thought SEMERNAT was a pain to deal with to do things up front & LEGALLY, but in my case, I'd probably have been better off
financially to have just started construction & gone the PROFEPA bond route when caught! But I refuse to knowingly run afoul of Mexican laws, so
by staying legal & adhering to the process, it cost me a 7-month delay in construction start-up, an additional 7-months rent (through this point
in time) in alternative housing & I had to bite the bullet on increased materials & Seguro Social costs!
Also, having submitted the paperwork & waiting for SEMERNAT to complete the process it still doesn't authorize you to do ANYTHING (plant new
things, remove existing natural plants or even move existing foliage, start excavation or construction!). You aren't in the "clear" to touch the
property until you get the official document back & in your hot little hand. Additionally, the builder who begins construction is in NO WAY
liable for any of the violation penalties, YOU, the property owner are fully liable, even if your builder tells you you don't need to
wait. Of course their going to tell you it's not necessary, because they can start earning $$ sooner & they're totally in the clear for the
violation penalties!
I'm wondering if; like varying property tax discounts in another recent thread; the penalties might vary by geographical area.
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Bob and Susan
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dollars...
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oldlady
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Greta-
I am the friend that longlegs and her builder helped. Longlegs nailed it.
Even though she went through the pain and expense of waiting until it was all done right, we incurred a tremenduous amount of loss because of the
interruption in our project. If we had known (and the person who sold us the land did, but didn't bother to tell us or to do it when he subdivided),
we would have rolled it into the cost of the project, and done it through the process. It would have been easier and much cheaper!
From what I understand the cost for the study varies depending on the size of land being developed and /or subdivided....and probably the mood of
SEMERNAT on any given day...but that's just my cynical side speaking.
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BigWooo
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Here's a little more info:
It is better to do the Environmental Impact Study legally, especially if you have a lot of land. If Profepa fines you, the fine only covers the area
that was cleared at the time they did their inspection. If you want to alter any other part of your property, or do additional construction at a
later date, you will still need to get an environmental impact study through Semarnat to make those changes.
If you do the EIS up front legally, you are permitted to alter or clear any part of your property.
The cost of the EIS is based on how far you are from La Paz.
In areas more to the north the cost is three or four times the cost of a study done in or near La Paz
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greta-inbaja
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Posts: 132
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Location: Truckee, CA
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Thanks everyone. I am about 2.5 hours south of La Paz. All this info will take a bit to digest. I'll get back to you. Thanks again,
Greta
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longlegsinlapaz
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Location: La Paz
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| Quote: | | The cost of the EIS is based on how far you are from La Paz. In areas more to the north the cost is three or four times the cost of a study done in
or near La Paz |
Thanks BigWooo....I kinda suspected that! I believe people in the out-lying areas might still be able to minimize the costs to some degree by having
certified/qualified non-SEMERNAT personnel prepare the report for final submittal to SEMERNAT. The cost SEMERNAT quoted for their people to
do it for me was double the cost for qualified people they'll accept the work from. Granted I'm less than 10 miles from their office, but I'd imagine
either making arrangements to pick the guys up for a site visit to your property & bringing them back to La Paz could result in some degree of
savings. At least it'd be worth checking into.
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oladulce
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| Quote: | quote]Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
I believe people in the out-lying areas might still be able to minimize the costs to some degree by having certified/qualified non-SEMERNAT
personnel prepare the report for final submittal to SEMERNAT. |
A few years ago Semarnat changed their rules which now allows anyone to perform or submit an impact study. Some clever folks have seen this lucrative
niche so be careful when choosing who you hire. One doesn't need to be an Ingeniero, I'm not aware of a certification process, and it's really hard to
tell who the heck is qualified out there.
I would add to Longleg's excellent info:
1. The most important qualification to look for in someone you're considering to do an Impact study is a proven track record of successfully
completing the entire process (EIS/MIA and Cambio Uso de Suelo) for clients- in other words, get references.
2. Do not give alot of weight in your decision to hire a guy based on:
- "I have friends at SEMARNAT and/or PROFEPA"
- " My uncle, cousin,sister works at SEMARNAT"
- "I used to, or currently work at SEMARNAT or PROFEPA"
It's surprising how many current, former, or related SEMARNAT employees we've come across while trying to get this done.
[Edited on 3-12-2008 by oladulce]
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Acuity
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Maybe this is a stupid question, but for what type of properties do you need an EIS? Is it just waterfront, or is the issue broader?
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longlegsinlapaz
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Acuity, not a stupid question....the issue is much broader than waterfront properties! ALL unimproved land w/o previous permanent
construction. All of Mexico. And YOU have to be able to prove that any existing structures or improvements to the land were done prior to the EIS
requirement. Dated pics, an old printout of a GoogleEarth map, etc., can really help your cause. There is apparently a minimal number of sq. meters
of land that does not require an EIS....but I think that's only applicable to Mexicanos who build a 300 sq ft rustico casa. I know that the area my
property is located, SEMERNAT told my builder & I "Anything below Calle Palo de Arco is considered rustico & doesn't require an EIS".
Well, guess what!! I'm ON the downhill side of Calle Palo de Arco, and I had to get one! So maybe there's an obscure nationality requirement that
comes into play!
Todos Santo is definitely with easy reach of the PROFEPA people based out of La Paz....as, obviously, are some of the more remote areas....good rule
of thumb, if there is a road in, PROFEPA will undoubtedly find you eventually! And it won't be a fun-filled, nor inexpensive time when they do! Be legal & if there is any doubt, check with the SEMERNAT office in La Paz before you touch your property. When buying improved property, ask
the seller for a copy of the EIS as a term of the purchase contract. Or check to see if one is on file in La Paz. It'll save you a lot of headaches!
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
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this is good advise
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shari
Select Nomad
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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another stupid question...today someone told me that EI studies are not required if they are within municiple boundaries...true or false?
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Bob and Susan
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does the municiple have a EI for it's area??
if it does you're covered under it...
otherwise the municiple needs to get one too...
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BigWooo
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I was told by a company that specializes in Environmental Impact Studies (Geobios) in La Paz that : "all projects that are out of the bounds of a city
and are covered with natural vegetation require an environmental impact study".
I would interpret that to mean that you don't need one inside a municipality... but I would rather hear the answer directly from SEMARNAT before
starting any project.
Before starting our project we called SEMARNAT on the phone to make initial contact with on of the engineers. Once we introduced ourselves and
explained our intentions, he gave us his email address so we could send him the location and basic title info of our property along with some
pictures. He was very cordial and promptly emailed us an answer.
Unfortunately our architect didn't follow through with the study and we didn't follow up to assure it was completed. Now we are now going through the
profepa phase which you truly want to avoid
[Edited on 2-24-2008 by BigWooo]
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Bob and Susan
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city of mulege was required to get an EI to complete the river project
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