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tehag
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Fishing in the Gulf/Better/Worse?
Among sport fishermen with some experience in the Gulf there seems to be a difference of opinion concerning the condition of the fishery. Let's see
the spread. Select the answer that best describes your opinion of the change, if any, in the Gulf of California sport fishery.
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Osprey
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Tehag, it's a good start, a good idea. You may not like the answers: the gulf is 68,000 sq. miles. Are the people in the poll to assume they are
catching more/bigger fish of any specie labeled Sport Fish? Is it any/all fish not intended for sale? For example: I'm catching way more ladyfish than
I ever did in the past fishing only in a bay about 20 X 15 miles 60 air miles from the tip of the peninsula on the west side of the gulf. Should my
reply be MUCH BETTER?
[Edited on 5-14-2008 by Osprey]
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Russ
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Simple in simple out
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Skipjack Joe
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Specifying a time reference frame would have been helpful. Perhaps it was purposefully omitted. My comparison was with fishing about 25 years ago. It
was very different back then.
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vandenberg
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Specifying a time reference frame would have been helpful. Perhaps it was purposefully omitted. My comparison was with fishing about 25 years ago. It
was very different back then. |
Concur with Skipjack.
Have to have a way for comparison, otherwise this poll is worthless.
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Osprey
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Without picking fly poop out of pepper there must be a way to get a reasonable answer without a long questionaire but I think, to be fair, the
questions have to narrow down what kind of fish, take into account better success opportunities vis a vis charters, lures, bait, etc. If you use the
word "Success" that could mean "more of what you were/are after" and simplify things a bit. Should be careful about the word "Sport" and don't forget
to include flyfishing.
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Cypress
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If you have to run out of the average panga's range to catch a mess of fish, 30+ miles, that ought to give you a clue. The Sea of Cortez is getting hammered.
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tehag
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Fishing
Key word here, opinion, not science. Parameters such as where, when, what kind, etc. are not needed in an opinion poll. This is not intended as a
fisheries management tool, simply a poll of opinions. It has already begun to show something of a trend in opinion, that's all it will ever show.
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Pescador
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Skeet wants to vote twice.
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Osprey
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Sorry, got off on the wrong track there for a minute. To form my opinion I will lean on fairly new data: the 400 plus permits now allow an extra 1.5
million baited hooks to be longlined all over the gulf as many times a day as they can be pulled in and redeployed. Based on that, my opinion is that
fishing was better (for our side) before the permits were issued. I'll bet if any permit holders want to post they might say it's better now (for
their side) that they have the permits.
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vandenberg
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Tom,
It has to be
"better then what/when?"
or
"worse then what/when?"
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tehag
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Trying again
Obviously I have worded this invitation to participate in an opinion poll unclearly. Otherwise, how can we explain more than 300 views and only 24
opinions. I know there are more than 24 fishermen on this board, and among them there is certainly no great shortage of opinions.
Let me try to clarify. If you, in your own personal experience of fishing in the Gulf of California over the aggregate of all the types of fishing you
have done over whatever span of time since you began fishing there have formed any opinion as to whether the quality of fishing has changed, and you
would care to share your opinion with others here, please check an appropriate box in the poll at the beginning of this thread.
This is not science. I am simply curious. I would hope that others here are, too. In my own experience, which spans some years, I have noticed that
catching most pelagics has become increasingly difficult and inshore species even more so. How long since you caught a dorado inside Danzante on a red
and white feather or a sierra from the beach on a blue and white one? Was a time when that was far enough, and a feather seemed to be just what they
wanted.
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vandenberg
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O.K. Tom, you have my "much worse" vote.
But I want to add that this is an overall decline in all fishes since the end of the 70's.
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flyfishinPam
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better or worse then WHEN???
this question is too general.
areas need to be focused on and technique needs to be focused on.
well for me its better than it was ten years ago...I have been using different techniques than I did ten years ago and I have gotten better at using
these techniques.
same goes for my sport captains, they have become more skilled at what they do.
sportfishing clientele has changed considerably along with it their techniques have changed, and they along with the captains have become more skilled
at catching fish.
we've learned more about fish behaviour and seasons and have been able to pass this knowledge to clients so that they travel during the optimum times,
focus on the best technique for their area of fishing and time of year they're fishing...etc.
this poll is too general.
this general question can be asked with decent results to commercial fishermen who fish in the same location as they did ten years ago, and with the
same techniques. then the results would actually be useful. but your heart is in the right place by asking.
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flyfishinPam
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you know this poll caught my attention and when I read through, there are several people that had the same concerns about the generality of this
opinion poll that I have stated
did all of you recieve a nasty u2u from tehag too?
mr hag I know who you are so you can't hide behind a keyboard. you stalk all of my posts. its weird. get a life. here's my opinion, this opinion
poll doesn't matter.
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tehag
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Way beyond polling
Hi Pam:
Nice to hear from you. I U2Ud as a courtesy to you in case you didn't want to be public. Evidently that's not the case. What you saw as nasty in my
communication is beyond me. It certainly wasn't intended to be nasty. I'm sorry that I misjudged your take on it. Please accept my apology.
Tom Haglund
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Iflyfish
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How about looking at some research?
http://www.google.com/search?q=Studies+on+Fish+Populations+i...
In my opinion this topic is too important for opinion.
I would invite some reading and then some discussion.
Iflyfishwhennotreadingtheworkofpeoplewhodevotetheirlifeworktothescienceofansweringquestionslikethis
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backninedan
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True, why would we want to rely on first hand observations from people who have fished the sea of cortez for decades? Especially when we have a
perfectly good government paper to read.
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Iflyfish
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backninedan
You may want to rely on anecdotal observations to base your conclusions. For centuries people have done just that. This is why so many believed and
some still do that the earth is flat.
Notice how others are asking for the basis of the observations i.e. where, at what time, at what depth, at what time of the year, at what species, at
what point in their migration (if they migrate), at what location etc. These are questions used to make scientific and systematic observations that
compare oranges to oranges and apples to apples. These sort of questions insure that we are all talking about the same thing.
If you will go to the site I posted, you will find lots of different studies by many different groups, some government sponsored and some not. I
realize and sympathize with your skepticism of recent government studies. Since the Bush administration started to stack scientific boards with
Christians with anti science bias, we now need to question carefully scientific studies produced by agencies overseen by these people because of their
obvious bias. For instance the Bush administration destroyed ERIC, the repository of all research that had been done in the history of education in
preparation to pass its “No Child Left Behind” program. That body of research took place over decades and was the equivalent of burning the library of
Alexandria to educators. Now we know that “No Child Left Behind” is an utter failure, so we now have bad programming as well as bad science.
I love to hear the stories of others who have fished the Sea of Cortez, some of my greatest memories are of fishing this amazing body of water. There
are a significant number of people and studies that question whether or not this great or once great fishery can be sustained. All the anecdotal
stories we may gather will never answer in any scientific way the question that has been asked here. This is why I have suggested that we inform
ourselves of the science that does exist so that we can adequately advocate for this great natural resource.
Iflyfish
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Osprey
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If you ask questions only about fish caught in this little sea you still have some problems: Just after 9-11 people were in shock, did not travel
much, didn't sport fish and I quipped "what irony - Bin Ladin might have saved the SOC fishery". Now diesel in the U.S. (and elsewhere) is screaming
up while it is still a relative bargain in Mexican (read Mexican waters). That could change things in a big way as fishing here makes more profits
(shrimpers all over the Gulf of Mexico are selling their boats because of low cost imports/rising diesel costs). The eastern shore of the SOC is
barren now because of dead zones caused by fertilizer, Oxogen depletion and to the big shrimp farms, overfishing, pollution. The when/how/where
answers help but it's still pick a paradigm time.
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