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Author: Subject: "Just protecting our agents" yeah, right!!
thebajarunner
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 11:11 AM
"Just protecting our agents" yeah, right!!


nothing like a little razor wire to promote even better relations with the neighbors...
(Got any idea what that stuff costs? None of us could afford that expense- just Uncle Sugar- wait, aren't we paying for Uncle's bills?)


http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-wire17-2008may17,0,6915500...

From the Los Angeles Times
Razor-sharp concertina wire installed at U.S.-Mexico border
The U.S. says its use on an eventual 5-mile stretch of existing fence is to protect agents. But critics say it disregards immigrants' safety.
By Richard Marosi
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

May 17, 2008

SAN DIEGO -- — The U.S. Border Patrol is installing razor-sharp concertina wire atop border fencing between San Diego and Tijuana, marking a major shift in approach along a frequently violent stretch of the frontier.

The triple-strand wire, meant to keep smugglers from attacking agents, will stretch five miles when completed this summer -- the longest expanse of this type of wire ever used on the Southwest border.

Federal authorities in the past have avoided using fortifications with such negative symbolism. Hundreds of miles of barriers going up in other areas have had to meet "aesthetically pleasing" federal design standards.

Critics say the new approach is inhumane and could leave illegal immigrants bloodied.

Border officials in San Diego say it was necessary and already is proving effective.

They say they opted to augment the existing fencing with razor wire amid escalating violence across from Colonia Libertad, one of Tijuana's most notorious smuggling enclaves.

The hilly area, roughly between the San Ysidro and Otay Mesa ports of entry, is already one of the most heavily fortified along the Southwest border, with primary and secondary fences, stadium lighting and camera towers.

The area has been the scene of frequent clashes between rock-throwing youths and agents firing pepper spray and tear gas. Despite using tear gas to disperse attackers and improving cooperation with Mexican authorities, U.S. authorities are still being attacked, said San Diego's Chief Patrol Agent Michael J. Fisher.

Fisher drew criticism late last year after his agents began tear-gassing densely populated areas, sending some residents to a hospital. He said the safety of his agents is his top priority.

"We didn't just decide to put up concertina wire," Fisher said. "This is a 1.5-year process on . . . how to make the border safe and secure, and to keep our agents safe from assaults."

So far, about a mile of the concertina wire is up. The installation started in December for a 60-day test period and was expanded in February. The wire runs atop the secondary fence, which sits roughly 50 yards inside the primary fence.

According to the Border Patrol, there were half as many assaults in the five months since the wire went up -- 58, compared with 122 in the five months before the installation.

Illegal entries were also down more than 50% over the same period, from 16,322 to 6,319, according to Border Patrol statistics.

Immigrant rights groups call the new fencing a major move toward border militarization. They say it's not the right solution.

"This is a primitive way of trying to conduct border enforcement," said Pedro Rios, San Diego area program director for the American Friends Service Committee. "Razor-sharp wire isn't going to stop people from coming across, and I doubt it will stop people from throwing rocks."

Enrique marooones, president of the Border Angels, a San Diego-based immigrant rights group, said he thought it would push more illegal immigrants into dangerously remote desert and mountain areas.

"This fence shows a total disregard for human life," said marooones. "What's next? Gun racks with machine guns and bazookas?"

The new tactics are praised by foes of illegal immigration, who frequently call for stricter enforcement. "This is a fence that is in plain view," said Steven Camarota, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies, which favors curbs on immigration. "One has to keep in mind that the illegal alien trying to enter the U.S. is responsible for his own actions."

Border Patrol officials said they have tried to minimize the dangers of the new wire by lighting the area at night and erecting warning signs in Spanish. They predict that the wire will reduce injuries by serving as a deterrent. In the past, many immigrants have injured legs and ankles jumping from the 17-foot-high barriers.

Since the first concertina wire went up, only one immigrant has been injured by it, officials said. He got tangled up in the wire and was treated for minor injuries and returned to Mexico, officials said.

Concertina wire and regular barbed wire have been used on a limited basis in the past, mostly to fortify ports of entry and other federal facilities along the border. Most of the border fencing going up this year is made of welded wire or steel tubes without any sharp edges.

Fences topped with concertina wire have proved tough to breach, authorities say. Smugglers have tried without success to rip down the new wire by chaining it to a moving car.

Fisher, the Border Patrol chief, said he won't give an inch.

The fence, he said, sends a strong message to smuggling groups that threaten his agents:

"It will be a long battle unless we can show the smugglers that we won't cede the area. Nor will we retreat our position further to the north, and allow them to operate with impunity."
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Bajaboy
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 11:19 AM


Or we could continue to spend tax payer dollars on ineffective methods. I prefer effective methods myself.

Zac




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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 11:23 AM


Don't blame the Mexicans for crossing into the USA where there are jobs awaiting them.:) Expect there'll be a major increase when the fisheries finally collapse.:no: Razor or any other kind of wire might slow 'em down,but it's not gonna stop 'em.:)They're good hardworking people that only want to get a job, earn their pay, and have a life.
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 11:25 AM


Unless your primo Chuey is a coyote, I don't understand what your beef is with the concertina wire.
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thebajarunner
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 11:34 AM
No, I don't know any coyotes


Quote:
Originally posted by fulano
Unless your primo Chuey is a coyote, I don't understand what your beef is with the concertina wire.


But I do know my wife, and she came across that line 33 years ago after her dad died and left 14 kids with no way to feed themselves.
(He had been a very successful rancher, but his sudden death at age 44 ended their ability to support themselves)

She has her own business, pays her taxes, works on a half dozen local charities and is a great credit to our society.

Guess my beef is simply with anyone who has a problem with this:mad::mad::mad:
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 11:45 AM


Crossing the border between ports of entry is illegal. Look up that word....illegal... if it isn't clear. I know if I crossed the border between ports of entry and was apprehended, I would be arrested, probably for commiting a felony and my life would turn to crap.
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 11:51 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Don't blame the Mexicans for crossing into the USA where there are jobs awaiting them They're good hardworking people that only want to get a job, earn their pay, and have a life.




THEN DO IT LEGALLY




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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 11:55 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by thebajarunner
But I do know my wife, and she came across that line 33 years ago after her dad died and left 14 kids with no way to feed themselves.
(He had been a very successful rancher, but his sudden death at age 44 ended their ability to support themselves)

She has her own business, pays her taxes, works on a half dozen local charities and is a great credit to our society.

Guess my beef is simply with anyone who has a problem with this:mad::mad::mad:


OK so she is a well behaving ILLEGAL.
Why didn't she obtain a legal entry visa ?
Why hasn't she gotten one since ? Or has she ?
Nothing personal, I am just on the LEGAL side of this argument.

About the fence;
Why should anyone worry about someone who is breaking the law, getting hurt while they are breaking the law ?
Why is this even a topic of discussion ??
Liberalism gone amuck !!

.
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 12:01 PM


Dennis, Your point is well taken.:) To respect and obey the law is a good thing.:) Given the choice between hunger and poverty with no chance to support yourself or your family, what would you do? I expect you'd get past that wire.:)
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 12:07 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Dennis, Your point is well taken.:) To respect and obey the law is a good thing.:) Given the choice between hunger and poverty with no chance to support yourself or your family, what would you do? I expect you'd get past that wire.:)


Yes, I know I would but, then I would have a different view of US law. That I understand this doesn't mean the law is invalid and should be ignored by those who's duty it is to enforce it. I don't have to enforce the law but, I choose to respect it, on both sides of the border.
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 12:12 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by fulano
Unless your primo Chuey is a coyote, I don't understand what your beef is with the concertina wire.


I don't agree. The fence should be electrified, instead.




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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 12:19 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by The Gull
I don't agree. The fence should be electrified, instead.


If they electrified the fence, there would be a rat's nest of wires running from the fence into Colonia Libertad, music blaring 24/7...and a brown out in San Diego.

;D
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 12:27 PM


Dennis, My sentiments also, but lately my respect of the law is tainted by a certain amount of fear.:no: There's getting to be a whole lot of "law" in the USA.:O When you add up the city police, the sheriffs dept., the state police, the border patrol, FBI, DEA, and whoever else is running around enforcing the laws of the land, we're getting a lot of law enforcement.:O They have boats, helicopters, drones , dogs, surveillance cameras, and etc. Anybody that willingly breaks the law is either desperate or dumb.:D
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 12:52 PM


It would have worked so much better if a second, informal border was established a mile or so north of the actual border on which to build an effective fence regardless of how scary or ugly. We should be able to do whatever we want on our own turf. The real problem is that we are so darned indecisive on the issue. The ones being hurt the most by all this is the large portion of Mexican citizens living in Mexico who have to live with a social situation that is kept just at below the boiling-over point. There is no real impetus for change. My fear is that Mexico's current social situation is the U.S.'s future social situation. As far as making our current fence effective - where there's a will, there's a way.



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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 01:00 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
It would have worked so much better if a second, informal border was established a mile or so north of the actual border on which to build an effective fence regardless of how scary or ugly. We should be able to do whatever we want on our own turf.


I've mentioned exactly that before. With a defensible perimeter a mile inside the line, we could patrol both sides of it and if anybody got close to it, shame on them. If anybody got over it, shame on us.
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 03:22 PM


Gee, I guess the next step would be machine gun turrets, no, make that laser turrets. :wow:


Where have I seen that image that conjures up ......????

Hmm.... oh now I remember and it's sadly Baja related.;D




Hey Pack here's a quick video of Smith.





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thebajarunner
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[*] posted on 5-17-2008 at 09:54 PM
"The Lucky Sperm Club" is in fine form


Self-congratulatory backpats all around for your mutual brilliance in being born on the right side of the line.

Well played, muchachos!!!
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[*] posted on 5-18-2008 at 12:05 AM
Hang on there podner


Quote:
Originally posted by thebajarunner
Self-congratulatory backpats all around for your mutual brilliance in being born on the right side of the line.

Well played, muchachos!!!


My post was NOT meant to percieved as an endorsement of such, rather a condemnation. I should have put in the wink. ;D I understand the angst.

btw, that black&white pic is of the Berlin Wall circa 1962

[Edited on 5-18-2008 by Sharksbaja]




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[*] posted on 5-18-2008 at 12:50 AM


Lucky sperm Club? If we're going to be generous, would it be pigheaded to include just one group of people, or would we need to open the floodgates to the people from India, China, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, and all the other good people? How many of these people should be allowed in per year? 1 million? 2 million? 15 million? 301 million? Or is there to be a limit to our generousness?

Why are we on the lucky side anyway? Why couldn't their side be a lucky side too? Or did we just give up on them completely?
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[*] posted on 5-18-2008 at 03:50 AM


What makes the U.S. the lucky side??

Not much luck involved there, it was through hard work, political involvement and the best "legal" immigrants the world had to offer....

Maybe our friends below the border need to emigrate to Spain? Is it not Spain that was so kind and generous to the native Mexicanos? Still are, aren't they?




\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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