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highsierrabum
Newbie
Posts: 21
Registered: 5-17-2008
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Fideicomiso questions
So, I'm sure there's been a million posts regarding the Fideicomiso process, and I have done some browsing but, I'm wondering if there is someone out
there who can give it to me straight...I am poor and cannot afford consultation services, and I want to take care of my fideicomiso on my own rather
than through a real estate agent....
1. From what I've read it's sounding like I DO NOT need an FM3 before applying for a fideicomiso, that a tourist visa will suffice, but that I should
apply for an FM3 once I have my fideicomiso in order to have legal rights under the mexican government should there ever be any disputes etc? Is this
correct information? I was told this winter in Baja, that the first thing I should do is get an FM3 BEFORE starting my Fideicomiso, What is the
truth?
2. Can anyone give me a simple bullet list of the steps involved in the process from start to finish? What do I do first? From what I've read I first
need to go to a Bank of my choice in Baja Mexico and ask to open a trust with the bank....let me know if this is correct and what happens after that,
what documents I will need etc.....
3. What paperwork do I need from the seller to open a trust with the bank? I have official receipts for the sale of the terreno showing the down
payment, the total, what is owed, and the seller's signature. I have been told that the seller must provide a "map" of some sort before I can open a
trust. What is this "map"? and do I need it to begin the fideicomiso process. My land has been surveyed, but I have not been given any sort of map
of the property. I have wanted to move very slowly in order to have time to save up the rest of what I owe and the seller is fine with this and
therefore has not moved forward on anything on their end until I'm ready, but on my next trip I want to start moving forward on the paperwork, so
should I contact them regarding this map before arriving in order to give them time to have it made, etc?
I am buying a hectare within a large parcel of private property held by a member of the ejido. It is under his name only. He received the rights to
the property during parcelization of the area in the mid ninties.
I know there is a lot of information out there about all this, but I've noticed variations in the info and there's almost too much of it....I'm
looking for a simple blow by blow account of what I need to do to begin the process of buying my land uner a fideicomiso....
thanks to whoever undertakes replying to this question......that next Pacifico Ballena is on me....
cheers
-dave
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Hi Bum....Welcome to BajaNomad.
Your #1 question will get a lot of different answers. Seems like no process follows the same guidelines in Mexico.
That's all I know. Do I get the Ballena?
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CaboRon
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The Fideicomiso I believe has to be drawn up by Notiro Publico.
Ejido land must be converted .... big red flag here
No money should change hands before the sale is complete ... your present receipts will not protect you.
Can someone else take it from here ??? Thanks, generally I would say stay away from Ejido land.
Take it away guys.
CaboRon
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bajaguy
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Regarding the FMT/FM-3. you are correct. Your FM-3 needs to show your "residential address". get the FM-3 as soon as you get some paperwork that
establishes your residency. Water, electric or telephone bills; property sales receipts or a sales contract showing money down or amount paid in your
name and the address of the property.
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highsierrabum
Newbie
Posts: 21
Registered: 5-17-2008
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in response to the ejido land "big red flag"
my situation is not typical "ejido land", it is owned under one name, not the entire ejido, it is private property, and several sales have been
concluded with ease already including one fideicomiso and a few corporations. so the usual nightmare of ejido land stuff does not apply here.
also, please
i've gotten enough of the half baked repsonses to my questions during my past five month stint south of the border...and unlike what people seem to
think, the fideicomiso process is relatively set, I know that much at least and would simply like to hear directly from those that really know and
want to give the time for an adequate response to my questions....
at the very least just tell me what steps you followed when you got your fideicomiso....what should i do first, second, third etc....thanks
a ballena is still waiting in the wings.....
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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I guess that means I don't get a Ballena.
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
I guess that means I don't get a Ballena. |
And neither do I Dennis ....
Sounds like he knows more than you or I 
CaboRon
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comitan
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To start with you should get an FM3, after that you need to go with the person selling the property to a Notario,to get the title officially
transfered, and since you will still owe on the property you will probably just get a power of attorney till the property is paid for. after that to
any Mexican bank and they will do the paperwork for your Fido.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Don Alley
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I can't remember all the steps we took or the order we did it, but...
We made a roughly 10% down payment, with a handwritten receipt, essentially a handshake deal.
We went to the Notario with the sellers, and they had their title and legal description.
About the same time I applied for my FM3. Since I was buying an existing home, an electric bill in the seller's name was sufficient proof of an
address to apply for my fidei.
On the same day we went to the Notario, we visited the bank officer at the bank that would hold our trust and had her start her paperwork. They wanted
credit card info to charge us for the initial bank fees and the fees due to Mexico City.
It's the responsibility of the Notario to produce the fideicomiso document, and they were good at letting us know what they needed. Perhaps you should
ask several notarios for a checklist, and get their prices. All notarios are different; shop around.
In theory a real estate agent could help. Especially if they brokered the sale. In practice, a real estate agent can be a help or can be a potential
headache.
We signed the final documents at the Notario's office with the sellers and paid the balance, by check, at the bank immediately afterward. There was no
option for an escrow.
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Marla Daily
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FIDEICOMISO PROCESS/EJIDO LAND
Hi and Welcome to this Forum,
You say your seller "received the rights to the [ejido] property during parcelization of the area in the mid ninties."
1. Does he have a Certificado Parcelario and is that what you are buying?
If so, the land is not eligible for a Fideicomiso. Only land with "Titulo" qualifies.
Does the back have a stamped Federal survey? It must.
[Which ejido? In Loreto, for example, ejido land was not parcelized until 1999. Here Certificado Parcelarios have been issued, but very few titles
have come through. I am not aware of any ejidos that created legal parcels in the mid 1990s. It is my understanding the constitution of Mexico law was
changed in 1998 or 1999 to allow the ejidos to divide.]
2. A hectare of land is 10,000 square meters. It is my understanding that a Fideicomiso will only cover 2000 square meters of land. I believe your
parcel is too big for a Mexican Trust. ASK THE BANK. Get it in writing!
3. Ask various banks for a list of their Fideicomiso fees in advance and IN WRITING. Meet with their trust officer. Look to see if you will pay a
fixed annual fee on 50 years, if it has a built-in inflation factor, if it is tied to an appraisal of your property every two years, etc. There are
MANY different deals out there. The devil is in the detail.
You have a lot of homework to do yet. Keep us informed of what you learn.
Marla
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oxxo
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by highsierrabum
in response to the ejido land "big red flag"
my situation is not typical "ejido land", it is owned under one name, not the entire ejido, it is private property, and several sales have been
concluded with ease already including one fideicomiso and a few corporations. so the usual nightmare of ejido land stuff does not apply here.
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Red Flag, Red Flag, Red Flag!!!!!!
Run in the opposite direction as fast as you can!
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Marla Daily
2. A hectare of land is 10,000 square meters. It is my understanding that a Fideicomiso will only cover 2000 square meters of land. I believe your
parcel is too big for a Mexican Trust. ASK THE BANK. Get it in writing!
Marla |
Generally speaking, foreigners cannot own property greater than 2000 square meters, however, under the Constitutional Article 27, you can. There is a
document that you need to execute agreeing to a certain amount of development within a certain period...another reason why you need this handled by a
notario.
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Marla Daily
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PARCELS LARGER THAN 2000 SQUARE METERS
It is my understanding development has to occur under a Mexican Coprporation, which does not have the size restrictions of a Fideicomiso. I am unaware
of exceptions to the size restriction of Fideicomisos.
In San Juanico where larger ejido parcels are being sold, we were told that people are getting a Fideicomiso for the first 2000 square meters of land
(where their house is), and forming corporations for the "protection of open space" for the remainder. The person who started this thread does not
sound like a developer.
Anyone with first hand experience?
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elizabeth
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Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Marla Daily
It is my understanding development has to occur under a Mexican Coprporation, which does not have the size restrictions of a Fideicomiso. I am unaware
of exceptions to the size restriction of Fideicomisos.
In San Juanico where larger ejido parcels are being sold, we were told that people are getting a Fideicomiso for the first 2000 square meters of land
(where their house is), and forming corporations for the "protection of open space" for the remainder. The person who started this thread does not
sound like a developer.
Anyone with first hand experience? |
Yes, me. The property which is the subject of a forthcoming fideicomiso is a little over 3,000 square meters. The bank has required that I execute
a document stating that I will invest a specific amount of money in development within a specific period of time.
[Edited on 5-18-2008 by elizabeth]
[Edited on 5-18-2008 by elizabeth]
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Osprey
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Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Gibson, the ladies, and others have things to tell us we are most interested in and we encourage them to share. Surely you can spend a little more
time in dedicated self-groping until another subject you like appears.
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Gadget
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Posts: 851
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Location: Point Loma CA
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Mood: Blessed with another day
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
| Quote: | Originally posted by Marla Daily
It is my understanding development has to occur under a Mexican Coprporation, which does not have the size restrictions of a Fideicomiso. I am unaware
of exceptions to the size restriction of Fideicomisos.
In San Juanico where larger ejido parcels are being sold, we were told that people are getting a Fideicomiso for the first 2000 square meters of land
(where their house is), and forming corporations for the "protection of open space" for the remainder. The person who started this thread does not
sound like a developer.
Anyone with first hand experience? |
Yes, me. The property which is the subject of a forthcoming fideicomiso is a little over 3,000 square meters. The bank has required that I execute
a document stating that I will invest a specific amount of money in development within a specific period of time.
[Edited on 5-18-2008 by elizabeth]
[Edited on 5-18-2008 by elizabeth] |
From what we learned last year in Todos Santos:
Parcels need to be under 2000 sq mtrs, 1,999 or less, so you avoid some of these issues...
such as the improvement clause. We were informed by several, agent, broker, notary that this clause which everyone seems to be quite fearful of has
never been enforced.
If the parcel is over 2000 sq mtrs, it can be divided in two by a surveyor and two Fideicomisos can be made, one for each. This is vertually how all
the lots we looked at either north or south of TS were surveyed out. This doubles some of the closing costs, but not all of them and keeps you from
dealing with the improvement clause.
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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Marla Daily
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Registered: 9-2-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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FIDEICOMISO INFORMATION
The thread was established by someone with Fideicomiso questions. We are sharing some things to look for which seem relevant to the original poster.
Example: In 1990 we enountered a situation where Bancomer "required" a minimum six-figure investment ($100,000) on a small undeveloped beach lot we
purchased. The bank's required additional investment was many times what we paid for the lot! Their annual fee on the Fideicomiso was based on a
percentage of the value of the lot and not on a flat annual rate. It was a way for the bank to attempt to establish a minimum annual fee of $1000.
Needless to say, we did not get a Fideicomiso with Bancomer on that property.
In fact, Bancomer announced, out of the blue that year, that ALL Fideicomiso annual fees were going up to a minimum of $1000 a year to "meet their
costs in maintininig the trust." More than 45 gringos who used Bancomer for their Fideicomisos at the time, united and went on strike, as it were.
Bancomer flew attorneys to Loreto from Mexico City—a meeting was held and it was immediately announced there "had been a mistake." They meant to say
the new annual minimum fee would be $500!
Now our Fideicomiso is expiring after 30 years and one name transfer. (In 1978 it was the second one established in Loreto). The annual fees are $330,
up from the original $70/year. Last week we went to Bancomer to process a 50-year extension, only to be told our Fideicomiso had never been
registered in Mexico City. THAT could be the topic of a whole new thread!
My point—read the small print of any Fideicomiso and be sure you know what annual fees you will be facing for the next 50 years. Also know that if you
buy or sell, the person to whom you sell is tied to the contract you sign for the term of the trust. The clock does NOT start all over when you sell
(or buy).
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highsierrabum
Newbie
Posts: 21
Registered: 5-17-2008
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Now this is something new....you folks are saying that a hectare is too big for a fideicomiso, for some reason I am skeptical of this....I have not
heard this before at all, but I do know that if your land is over 2,000 sq. meters then you have the development clause. I have two friends in the
same place that did a fideicomiso and there land was just over 2,000 sq. meters but less than a hectare....they signed the development clause and have
built a house with plans for a garage....probably enough to satisfy the development clause....It is my personal belief that you can get a fideicomiso
for one hectare, but that you will have to sign the development clause--which I'm not too concerned about....for one the property is far from the
highway, and thus far from the eyes of the law, and I will be building a structure right away not just plopping a trailer onto the dirt, so it would
be relatively easy to claim that I've "developed" the property after a couple years with a small house on it and more plans in the works....
Sounds like my first trip will be straight to the notario, which is pretty much what I figured, and that from there they can guide me through the
process. My friends who did a fideicomiso from the same seller mentioned that I need a map of my property before I can do anything. So if this is
true I suppose I need to prod the ranchers who are selling to get the map done before I go back down to start with all this paperwork, since the map
will probably take time. Anyone with experience in this?
As far as the red flag stuff....you guys are worry worts man, relax.....and perhaps I'm wrong about the mid nineties time frame, that's what I thought
someone told me, but if it didn't happen until 99 then ok, whatever. The seller is honest, trustworthy, and has title to the land. He's lived there
for his whole life, and his entire family still live there on part of the land. there are no worries about his right to sell the property....I am far
from being the first to buy there....several "corporations" and one fideicomiso have gone through and are complete with no troubles, and recently a
development company (the enemy/devil incarnate) has agreed to buy 200 hectares...you can find it at bclandaquisitions.com.....it makes me sick and I
hope it doesn't happen but it's just another piece of evidence that the seller has his ducks in a row.....
alright....as far as the FM3, I can't get it first because I have nothing to prove that I'm living down there...there are no utilities and never will
be where I'm buying (which is why I am buying there), and so it seems to me that I must first get title and fidei for the land and then use that to
prove that I am a resident in need of an FM3....
Thanks for the info folks...(you might be wondering what happened to the ballena.....sorry but I drank it already....got thirsty in this heat...)
cheers
dave,
any further information will be appreciated if someone's got recent experience with the process....
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DianaT
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Dave,
Don't know where you are, but we hired an agent in La Paz who handled our fideocamiso from start to finish, and he was NOT expensive. We even gave
him a power of attorney so we did not have to travel to La Paz.
He answered all our questions, and the process for us took about four months. He is also familar with ejido land.
There are others in Bahia Asuncion who have and are using this agent. If interested, U2U. He is also handling our FM3.
We found it a lot easier this way and we did it just this year.
Diane
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highsierrabum
Newbie
Posts: 21
Registered: 5-17-2008
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i am buying in baja norte, out in the seven sisters...so perhaps i would want a different agent, but thanks for the information. I have also been
told this before, and thought that I may end up going that route if I could not figure things out myself. I guess the main thing I need to figure out
is what documents I need from the seller in order to begin the paperwork. That way I can notify them in advance of my next trip to baja and perhaps
even meet them in Ensenada on my way down....
thanks for all the info folks and keep it comin' if you got something new to share...
--dave
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