davidre
Newbie
Posts: 21
Registered: 3-21-2007
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Estimado Amigo BAJA CACTUS
Your gasolinera has always had accurate fuel dispensers. Mi pregunta deals with PROFECO and exactly what happens to a gasolinera if fuel delivery
should prove to be inaccurate. On the mainland I see stations that have a yellow plastic ribbon wrapped around some pumps with the imprinted words
"INMOVILIZADO" and the PROFECO name.
Chisme has it that if a pump becomes INMOVILIZADO it can be used again. A new tamper-proof pump must replace it. Some say that the station has to pay
a fine and flagrant or repeated violations have landed station owners in the BOTE.
Nos gringos tienes recruedos muy largo when it comes to encountering dishonest gasolineras, be it in Mexico or elsewhere.
¡Mil Gracias! For Your Help And Enthusiasm
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BajaCactus
Senior Nomad
Posts: 663
Registered: 5-22-2004
Location: Km. 55, carretera transpenisular, El Rosario, B.C.
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Mood: Helpful
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David...
Thank you for your nice comments about our Gas Station... we do make our best effort to treat our customers with honor and respect... Do not we all
deserve at least that?
Your question has a very complex answer...
There are several reasons for Profeco to immobilize a gas dispenser... some are purely administrative and others are because the pump is truly
dispensing inaccurately.
Talking about the correct measuring of the liters... because of the effects of temperature on fuel and also because all pumps measuring systems have
some degree of mechanical instrumentation, there is an authorized margin for the pumps inaccuracy, being this 100 milliliters for every 20 liters
dispensed... anything above or beyond that and the pump gets immobilized, plus the station owner gets a very heavy fine. Besides, once the fine is
paid, reactivating such pump could take more than 3 months.
Now, Pemex regulations states that every Gas Dispenser in use within Mexico must have a valid permit for commercialization, certified only by the
Cenam Government Agency (our Regulatory Measurement Agency). Every gas dispenser manufacturer must provide them, amongst other things, with blueprints
for the entire electrical and mechanical diagrams of such unit, as well as manuals, programming codes, etc.
Why is this important?...Well, Profeco has now access to all these materials, and now they are authorized to also inspect and compare all the
entrails of the pumps and compare them to the original specifications... if they find something "weird" they are authorized to immediately close down
the Gas Station and put the owner and manager under arrest until everything is fully investigated.
They are also entitled to check that the Gas Station has all the paperwork (many inches of paperwork per unit) and latest certification for the pumps
being used... if not they can immobilized and fine the owner.
They also check if the Profeco stickers on the outside of the pumps are immaculate, no scratches or nothing, if not the pump gets immobilized.
They can also check every print sticker on the inside of the electronic hardware cards... if they do not like them... you guess it, the pump gets
immobilized.
There are many other little things they look for, and if there is anything, just a little thing they do not like... yes, they immobilize.
Now, no matter if the pumps are working and dispensing perfectly, if there is one piece of paper missing in your office, they shut down the pump and
place those little, yellow, tiny immobilization stickers (if you have not seen them, they measure around 17" by 22") without any explanation
whatsoever to the public for the reason of the problem... so of course, everyone could think they are cheating their customers.
We had a bad experience last year... a Profeco inspection arrive with us and checked every pump, inside and out, made three measurements of every
single hose we have at the dispensers with special equipment they carry and did many other tests... everyone of our pumps got a perfect score... all
of them within very acceptable parameters... they even had the cynicism to tell us that they could not believe the results, that is was impossible for
such perfect results, and were going to repeat the measurement tests.
So, on they went to the paperwork... we had everything... of course I had asked for every needed paper several months ago... well... out of the many
inches of paper, there was this one paper that had a stamp in copy, not original. My supplier had missed an original stamp there and replaced that
particular sheet with a copy... well... they went on to shut down all the dispensers... yes... they wanted to immobilized every one of the pumps, in
effect shutting down the Gas Station and arguing that there was also a small scratch in one of the Profeco stamps in the outside of one of the
dispensers.
I was here in Tijuana and immediately contacted my supplier and within 30 minutes I had in my hand the piece of paper missing the original stamp just
as they wanted it... I offer to leave immediately and have it there in 4 hours, I offer to send them a copy, we offer them a meal and a free stay at
BajaCactus while they waited for me... we did everything in our power and they did not listen... they were filling up the official documentation for
shutting down the whole gas station. I thought "Of course, I know what this guys want!!!... and against my whole integrity I asked my manager t o
"investigate" what their "true" intentions were... no luck... they just were very mean people.
I finally got a hold of one of their bosses in Mexico city and explained everything, including that I had what they needed and that I could be there
ASAP, asking for them to be reasonable... no luck... it was not until I told their boss that they were going to leave a whole town and a huge gap at
Mexico 1, without fuel for who knows how long, when he agreed to ask Pemex if this was true... Can you believe that?... One hour later I received a
call telling us that they were only shutting down half the Gas Station... What!!!... Well... you can imagine every curse and word I was thinking.
Well... they went on to put those little stickers of immobilization on half the pumps, gave us a huge fine (over $4,000 Dlls)... Six hours had passed
since they arrive at BajaCactus and asked for that original stamp.
It took me more than a month to enable the pumps again... and only because I went personally to Mexico City to make all the paperwork... the usual
time is around 3-4 months.
Of course... if they find that you covered the pumps with anything that impedes the view to any part of the small sticker, they give you another
fine... and of course to everyone passing by, we indeed were caught stealing people... very embarrassing... and the worst is that we had no ways of
defense... just imagine explaining all of these to everyone passing by... Would you believe it?
Now David, getting back to your question...if you get dispensing inaccurately... depending on the reason you get a fine, immobilized and you can
probably go to jail. You may also be asked to replace your pumps for another model if you want to continue operations.
Can you get back your pumps working?... Yes... after a huge fine and lots of documents... unless you were caught deliberately stealing people, in
which case you loose the franchise and go to jail.
In the following Profeco page you can check the supposed status of any Gas Station in Mexico, according to Profeco of course...but let me tell you
that this page can be misleading sometimes and show you a Gas Station in "RED", but it does not explains exactly why it is in this state, so everyone
thinks the worst (we were in Red for a month last year)... I think you get the picture : http://webapps.profeco.gob.mx/verificacion/gasolina/
Sorry for the long post... at least I hope I have cleared some of your doubts my friends.
BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."
[Edited on 6-15-2008 by BajaCactus]
BajaCactus
"Where Baja is so much more than a dream..."
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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and all the time i thought it was because the pumps leaked....
what a nightmare...
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaCactus
I was here in Tijuana and immediately contacted my supplier and within 30 minutes I had in my hand the piece of paper missing the original stamp just
as they wanted it... I offer to leave immediately and have it there in 4 hours, |
Unless it is at a time when there is no slowdown in Ensenada or San Quintin, not sure I would want to ride with you. 
What a nightmare for you. Your station has had such a good reputation for so long that I don't think many, including us, would even notice any
stickers. But for you, that was awful. Can't believe you had to go to Mexico City.
Thanks for the very informative answer.
Diane
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Gracias mi estimado for an enlightening explanation. This is a perfect example of how perceptions in mexico are a sticky issue. Tourists jump to
conclusions based on rumor, visual cues, a little info usually passed on by other ignorant parties and pass judgement without all the information.
Many times here, the explanations are very complex, long and involved and sometimes difficult to understand by foreigners. Things are often NOT as
they appear. This is one of the valuable things about this board...some rumors, misunderstandings, lies etc. can be discussed, revealed, explained and
straightened out or at least some light shed on the problems. Mexico is a very complex country and there is usually A LOT going on behind the scenes
that most people don't know about.
We are living through a time of great change here...hopefully giving birth to a new era which is always painfull. I salute you Antonio. Feliz Dia del
Padre!
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shariThings are often NOT as they appear. This is one of the valuable things about this board...some rumors,
misunderstandings, lies etc. can be discussed, revealed, explained and straightened out or at least some light shed on the problems.
We are living through a time of great change here...hopefully giving birth to a new era which is always painfull. I salute you Antonio. Feliz Dia del
Padre! |
From your lips to God's (and BN members) ears...
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Freebird
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 6-7-2008
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaCactus
Thank you for your nice comments about our Gas Station... we do make our best effort to treat our customers with honor and respect... Do not we all
deserve at least that?
Your question has a very complex answer...
There are several reasons for Profeco to immobilize a gas dispenser... some are purely administrative and others are because the pump is truly
dispensing inaccurately.
Talking about the correct measuring of the liters... because of the effects of temperature on fuel and also because all pumps measuring systems have
some degree of mechanical instrumentation, there is an authorized margin for the pumps inaccuracy, being this 100 milliliters for every 20 liters
dispensed... anything above or beyond that and the pump gets immobilized, plus the station owner gets a very heavy fine. Besides, once the fine is
paid, reactivating such pump could take more than 3 months.
Now, Pemex regulations states that every Gas Dispenser in use within Mexico must have a valid permit for commercialization, certified only by the
Cenam Government Agency (our Regulatory Measurement Agency). Every gas dispenser manufacturer must provide them, amongst other things, with blueprints
for the entire electrical and mechanical diagrams of such unit, as well as manuals, programming codes, etc.
Why is this important?...Well, Profeco has now access to all these materials, and now they are authorized to also inspect and compare all the
entrails of the pumps and compare them to the original specifications... if they find something "weird" they are authorized to immediately close down
the Gas Station and put the owner and manager under arrest until everything is fully investigated.
They are also entitled to check that the Gas Station has all the paperwork (many inches of paperwork per unit) and latest certification for the pumps
being used... if not they can immobilized and fine the owner.
They also check if the Profeco stickers on the outside of the pumps are immaculate, no scratches or nothing, if not the pump gets immobilized.
They can also check every print sticker on the inside of the electronic hardware cards... if they do not like them... you guess it, the pump gets
immobilized.
There are many other little things they look for, and if there is anything, just a little thing they do not like... yes, they immobilize.
Now, no matter if the pumps are working and dispensing perfectly, if there is one piece of paper missing in your office, they shut down the pump and
place those little, yellow, tiny immobilization stickers (if you have not seen them, they measure around 17" by 22") without any explanation
whatsoever to the public for the reason of the problem... so of course, everyone could think they are cheating their customers.
We had a bad experience last year... a Profeco inspection arrive with us and checked every pump, inside and out, made three measurements of every
single hose we have at the dispensers with special equipment they carry and did many other tests... everyone of our pumps got a perfect score... all
of them within very acceptable parameters... they even had the cynicism to tell us that they could not believe the results, that is was impossible for
such perfect results, and were going to repeat the measurement tests.
So, on they went to the paperwork... we had everything... of course I had asked for every needed paper several months ago... well... out of the many
inches of paper, there was this one paper that had a stamp in copy, not original. My supplier had missed an original stamp there and replaced that
particular sheet with a copy... well... they went on to shut down all the dispensers... yes... they wanted to immobilized every one of the pumps, in
effect shutting down the Gas Station and arguing that there was also a small scratch in one of the Profeco stamps in the outside of one of the
dispensers.
I was here in Tijuana and immediately contacted my supplier and within 30 minutes I had in my hand the piece of paper missing the original stamp just
as they wanted it... I offer to leave immediately and have it there in 4 hours, I offer to send them a copy, we offer them a meal and a free stay at
BajaCactus while they waited for me... we did everything in our power and they did not listen... they were filling up the official documentation for
shutting down the whole gas station. I thought "Of course, I know what this guys want!!!... and against my whole integrity I asked my manager t o
"investigate" what their "true" intentions were... no luck... they just were very mean people.
I finally got a hold of one of their bosses in Mexico city and explained everything, including that I had what they needed and that I could be there
ASAP, asking for them to be reasonable... no luck... it was not until I told their boss that they were going to leave a whole town and a huge gap at
Mexico 1, without fuel for who knows how long, when he agreed to ask Pemex if this was true... Can you believe that?... One hour later I received a
call telling us that they were only shutting down half the Gas Station... What!!!... Well... you can imagine every curse and word I was thinking.
Well... they went on to put those little stickers of immobilization on half the pumps, gave us a huge fine (over $4,000 Dlls)... Six hours had passed
since they arrive at BajaCactus and asked for that original stamp.
It took me more than a month to enable the pumps again... and only because I went personally to Mexico City to make all the paperwork... the usual
time is around 3-4 months.
Of course... if they find that you covered the pumps with anything that impedes the view to any part of the small sticker, they give you another
fine... and of course to everyone passing by, we indeed were caught stealing people... very embarrassing... and the worst is that we had no ways of
defense... just imagine explaining all of these to everyone passing by... Would you believe it?
Now David, getting back to your question...if you get dispensing inaccurately... depending on the reason you get a fine, immobilized and you can
probably go to jail. You may also be asked to replace your pumps for another model if you want to continue operations.
Can you get back your pumps working?... Yes... after a huge fine and lots of documents... unless you were caught deliberately stealing people, in
which case you loose the franchise and go to jail.
In the following Profeco page you can check the supposed status of any Gas Station in Mexico, according to Profeco of course...but let me tell you
that this page can be misleading sometimes and show you a Gas Station in "RED", but it does not explains exactly why it is in this state, so everyone
thinks the worst (we were in Red for a month last year)... I think you get the picture : http://webapps.profeco.gob.mx/verificacion/gasolina/
Sorry for the long post... at least I hope I have cleared some of your doubts my friends.
BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."
[Edited on 6-15-2008 by BajaCactus] |
Profeco is the same as the local police, they know where the malandros are, but mordidas are everyday issue.
The Tj-Rosarito zone is full of fuel cheaters. They should go and get them, not the honest dispensers working hard to give a good service for the
people.
Feliz dia del padre!!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Just bypass the crooked dealers. Park it and walk when your rig sputters
to a halt. "Empty".
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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OMG what a hassle. Mucho suerte!
Say, what is the official name of your station Antonio? I wasn't able to key in on it on the Profeco site.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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BajaCactus
Senior Nomad
Posts: 663
Registered: 5-22-2004
Location: Km. 55, carretera transpenisular, El Rosario, B.C.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Helpful
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ES 3086
Sharksbaja... it is much easier to find a Gas Station by it's public identification number given by Pemex... it is the black number on the Pemex main
sign at every Gas Station... ours is ES 3086.
This number is also a consecutive one, as they were incorporated into Pemex... in our case, we were the 3086 gas station to be registered with Pemex.
On the Profeco site just input the number without the ES.
Thank you everyone for your support and nice words... Happy Fathers Day!!!
Antonio M.
BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."
BajaCactus
"Where Baja is so much more than a dream..."
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
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Yesterday I was ecstatic to get only 20 liters in my 19 liter cans. That was at the Mulege station on the hwy. Usually they're able to put in 22 to 23
liters. I've never questioned Antonio's pumps always seems to jive with what my gauge says. Looking forward to his restroom upgrades though. Oh, and I
always tip if the guy comes out and pumps for me. Gives me an opportunity to practice my "Spanish". I'm sure they have a good laugh after I leave
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
Member Is Offline
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Ah Russ, but at least you try the local lingo (as I do)
I know it's much appreciated and, as you said, good practice
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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