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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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FM3 to FMT
Don't see much use in jumping through hoops to keep renewing the FM3 .....
If you do not plan on becomming a citizen of old Mexico ....
And if you are a renter ....
Then what's the big deal ....
Can you let it expire and then apply for an FMT ??
Have meet a lot of people living and working in BCS that
have nothing for paperwork, not even a FMT ....
So is there any advantage ??
CaboRon
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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An FM3 gives you more legal rights. You have a right to a hearing before deportation.
If you leave the country, to visit the US, you must take your belongings with you. Anything you leave behind is technically considered abandoned if
you don't have an FM2 or FM3.
I would guess, though, that you're probably OK using an FMT. But if you guess wrong, you can be booted out, and not let back in. So, do you feel
lucky?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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FM-T is a tourist visa for people on a vacation. Not for people living part time or full time in Mexico. Also not good for having or leaving any
property in Mexico. When you go back 'home' to the U.S., you can't leave behind anything... technically.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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in the late 80's i spent ALOT of time in oaxaca. there were plenty of people who would use the fmt for 180 days then take the bus to guatemala and
leave mexico for the day or even a few hours. next day they'd return to mexico and get a new fmt for another 180 days. logistics make it harder from
T.S.
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BCSTech
Senior Nomad
Posts: 584
Registered: 4-16-2006
Location: Todos Santos, BCS / Placerville, CA.
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Mood: Carpe Manana
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From The Baja Western Onion...
On Wednesday:
| Quote: | Mexican Residency Visa Warning (Courtesy, Baja Pony Express) - Well it is now official. The computer at the airport and the rest of the Immigration
offices now pick-up if you have an FM-2 or -3 and are using a FM-T or Tourist Visa. One of my people was just caught and cited on the spot. He must
now go before an Official later this week to find out the penalty.
You CANNOT arbitrarily change your immigration status at whim. I also suggest you keep a copy folded up in your wallet at all times. I shall post the
results of the Hearing when I have more information. - Dennis C. Riley, Los Barriles
Questions: Does anyone know if this applies if a person has a recently expired FM-2 or -3? Does the holder of an expired FM-2 or 3 have to do
something to extinguish the residency permit first? Please post answers here: http://www.bajawesternonion.com/submitarticle.asp |
Response | Quote: | | Expired FM3 - In answer to the question about having an expired FM3 and trying to enter the country. Our friends used to live here in Mexico but have
not lived here for 4 years. When they returned for a visit this summer, they were entering on tourist visa's since they assumed their expired FM3's
were no longer any good. They were given a one day permit and told to appear at Immigration the next day. It turns out that you need to CANCEL your
FM3, not just let it expire. After a 2 hour interview, it was finally decided that they had no ill intents, so the fine was ONLY $200USD apiece!!!!
The gal doing the translation for them, told them the official could have gone as high as $900!!!! SO----in answer to the question, an expired FM3
needs to be CANCELED if you have no intent to use it again..........and DO NOT attempt to enter on a tourist permit with an expired FM3 on record!!!
It's a serious offense!!! |
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
FM-T is a tourist visa for people on a vacation. Not for people living part time or full time in Mexico. Also not good for having or leaving any
property in Mexico. When you go back 'home' to the U.S., you can't leave behind anything... technically. |
David, I understand that with an FMT you are not supposed to leave personal belongings in Mexico, but the Mexican Gov. lets you buy a home in Mexico
with an FMT, is it your understanding that all contents of the house would have to be removed every time a home owner leaves Mexico?
I hear the whales song
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64859
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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First, let me be clear that I am not an official of the Mexican government nor have personal experience with any visa other than the FM-T. I have
heard and read plenty in my 43 years of Baja travel from those who do live part time in Mexico.
So, I need to ask you who or what Mexican government 'lets you' buy a home? I would guess that they don't care what you have for a visa, as long as
you want to spend money in Mexico that could very easily be confiscated without legal status... Sure, anyone will accept your dollars and let you
'buy' whatever you want. BUT, do you have ANY legal rights to your purchase?
The definition of TOURIST is not the same as a RESIDENT or PROPERTY OWNER. Tourist visit Mexico on a vacation... they do not work nor do they leave
personal property behind at the end of their vacation.
I am sure lots of Americans fall in love with a place in Baja and will buy a home or lease a lot, while on vacation. AS SOON AS possible, they need to
apply for an FM-3 to legally have a right to keep that property.... Mexico (incl. Baja) is a different country, and even though you can drive to it
from the U.S., that doesn't mean your way of thinking or legal interpretation matters one bit.
Does any of this make any sense?
[Edited on 9-20-2008 by David K]
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robrt8
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 12-14-2007
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But you DO have to apply for permission from the gov. and they do "let" you to purchase property, outside of the restricted zones, if you have valid
immigration status--including an FMT holder.
The only case I know of where you must apply for an FM3 is to protect yourself for tax reasons.
I know of hundreds who own "vacation homes".
I don't know zip about the restricted zone.
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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Hola David and Robrt8,I am on the mainland in the state of Nayarit, I am in the restricted zone, 5 blocks from the beach, I had a real estate agent,
it went through a notario, i do have a fidecomiso, this transaction went through Mexico city for all paperwork and I asked before I bought if an FM-T
was sufficient to purchase a house and was told it was enough. Where does it say one can not leave property in Mexico, I wish they would put do and
don'ts on the back of the FM-T...Rick
I hear the whales song
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Sufficient to purchase a home...
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
I asked before I bought if an FM-T was sufficient to purchase a house and was told it was enough. |
But not to live in it. 
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
I am in the restricted zone, 5 blocks from the beach, |
Five blocks from the beach, you can't be referring to the Federal Zone which is twenty meters above the mean high tide line, in which case you would
need a Concession. What is the restricted zone? I've just never heard of it.
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
I am in the restricted zone, 5 blocks from the beach, |
Five blocks from the beach, you can't be referring to the Federal Zone which is twenty meters above the mean high tide line, in which case you would
need a Concession. What is the restricted zone? I've just never heard of it. |
The restricted zone is the land within 100 km of the border or 50 km from the coast. Any land outside of that restricted zone can be purchased by
foreigners without a bank trust.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
The restricted zone is the land within 100 km of the border or 50 km from the coast. Any land outside of that restricted zone can be purchased by
foreigners without a bank trust. |
Oh yeah...Now I remember. I was thinking within my Baja mind-set. Not too much here is in that zone although I think they've established that a very
small parcel up by the widest part is in the free zone but, it's probably in no-mans land.
Thanks.....
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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The area around San Matis on Highway is not in the restricted zone.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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So, back to my question, where does it say that personal property can not be left by persons with an FM-T in Mexico... I can see they don't want old
cars, trailers, motor homes, etc. littering the landscape but I am sure that every permanent camp site in Baja has stuff left from week to week in
San Felipe or the East Cape and the owners do not have FM3's or FM2's..Rick
I hear the whales song
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Rick.....
As we all know, there are sooo many details reported here as "Law" that immigration doesn't ever attend to. They, the rules if they even exist,
are just there to be pulled out of a hat when all else fails. Immigration here pretty much doesn't go around looking for infractions. Within their
own office they have trouble agreeing with each other when it comes to policy. The US bred paranoia which surrounds them is largely unearned. They
just arn't proactive in micro-enforcement.
These rules and laws you hear about probably arn't that anyway. If they are, they have to be explained to me by someone other than a complete
foreigner who has never talked with an attorney.
Speaking of lawyers, they wouldn't know either but, I suppose one could pay them to do their homework to give a book-written law that is wide open
to interpretation.
In other words, don't take anybody's word on the subject of Mexican law. Everybody thinks they're an expert because they heard something somewhere.
And as the old saying goes, "If a person doesn't know, you can't tell him."
[Edited on 9-20-2008 by DENNIS]
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
So, back to my question, where does it say that personal property can not be left by persons with an FM-T in Mexico... I can see they don't want old
cars, trailers, motor homes, etc. littering the landscape but I am sure that every permanent camp site in Baja has stuff left from week to week in
San Felipe or the East Cape and the owners do not have FM3's or FM2's..Rick |
OK, I can't prove that you need an FM2/3 to leave property in Mexico. Perhaps it's a moot (  )point anyway. Works like this: if you leave property behind without proper immigration docs, and it's stolen, when you report it to the
police they likely will not investigate and you will not get your property back. But if you do have an FM2/3 and report your stolen property, the
police will promise to investigate before you don't get your property back.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Rick.....
As we all know, there are sooo many details, reported here as "Law" that immigration doesn't ever attend to. They, the rules if they even exist,
are just there to be pulled out of a hat when all else fails. Immigration here pretty much doesn't go around looking for infractions. Within their
own office they have trouble agreeing with each other when it comes to policy. The US bred paranoia which surrounds them is largely unearned. They
just arn't proactive in micro-enforcement.
These rules and laws you here about probably arn't that anyway. If they are, they have to be explained to me by someone other than a complete
foreigner who has never talked with an attorney.
Speaking of lawyers, they wouldn't know either but, I suppose one could pay them to do their homework to give a book-written law that is wide open
to interpretation.
In other words, don't take anybody's word on the subject of Mexican law. Everybody thinks they're an expert because they heard something somewhere.
And as the old saying goes, "If a person doesn't know, you can't tell him." |
Well said Dennis, funny that all the important secrets of Baja can't be passed on to newcomers since people need to experience the persistent nonsense
themselves to understand. Oh well, lets all have a mojito and not worry about it!
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Here is the way I said it elsewhere on another forum and applies to such issues of not being able to obtain a clear answer to such questions:
I always say that Mexico isn't for everyone. You have need to have most or all of the following character traits to enjoy a (mostly) pleasant stay:
bohemian
self sufficient
thick skinned
easy going
adaptable
open minded
adventurous
non-complainer (at least not obsessive)
desire to learn, appreciate and participate in the local language and culture
In my 30+ years living in Latin America I have seen how expats from NOB who can be identified by these traits (I probably missed some others that
could be included) are the ones who truly do well down here. I was helping some friends of a friend a few months back who wanted to come down and take
a look around. They were considering Mexico for retirement so the first thing I did was take them for a drive around town and made some small talk in
the car to get to know them. They had questions about assimilation so I put it to them this way - if you are the type who back home gets upset at
things like:
1. Your neighbor who doesn't take his trash cans back in after the garbage truck goes by
2. Your neighbor who like to play music at 11:30 at night
3. Your neighbor who mows his lawn only once a month
4. Your neighbor who likes to work on his car in front of his house
5. Your neighbor who likes to have family get togethers every weekend and their family is bigger than many mid-western towns
6. The grocery store frequently does not have 2 of the 5 items you went there to buy
7. Electricity going out 5 minutes before your favorite TV show is to begin
8. Water pressure going out the evening your family arrives to spend the weekend
9. The mechanic tells you he will have your car ready at 5:00 PM and you thought that meant today
10. The plumber hooked up your new sink with the hot and cold reversed
Then I ask them if they are the types to write letters to the editor of the local newspaper for everything that bugs them about things going on in
their neighborhood back home.
If I get a yes answer to more than 2 of them or especially to the letter to the editor question, I will tell them that Mexico may not be a good choice
for them for anything more than vacations. That is what I told the couple my friends asked me to help out. They actually got a bit upset with me but I
felt like I was doing them a favor.
It is okay to recognize, understand and point out the less than positive aspects of life here in Mexico, but when it reaches the point of ruining your
day then perhaps you need to just recognize that life on this part of the planet is not your cup of tea. No harm intended or directed at anyone in
particular here.
Just an observation and as always, YMMV...
[Edited on 9-20-2008 by BajaGringo]
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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FM-T rules???
| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
An FM3 gives you more legal rights. You have a right to a hearing before deportation.
If you leave the country, to visit the US, you must take your belongings with you. Anything you leave behind is technically considered abandoned if
you don't have an FM2 or FM3.
I would guess, though, that you're probably OK using an FMT. But if you guess wrong, you can be booted out, and not let back in. So, do you feel
lucky? |
Senor Alley, The only reason I asked my question is because of the second paragraph of your post. I wanted to know where your information came from,
by the way even me with just an FM-T, when bandits stole some copper off my home the local police investigated, took a report, found the bandits and
put them in jail...ole
I hear the whales song
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