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Woooosh
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What can you do with an Ornamental Concession?
After two years of waiting, our "ornamental concession" for the Zona Maritime Federal has finally been approved.
Our intent was to prevent development on the beach in front of us, for obvious reasons. Now that we have it- what can we do with it? Can we rent
umbrellas and chairs? What can we do on the property to recover the costs of preserving it? If we wanted to build San Diego style public beach
showers and restroom- would that be possible?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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elgatoloco
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Maybe open a Chinese Restaurant? Oh wait.......damn dyslexia again. Never mind. 
I would check with the government before I did anything maybe find out who is in charge of permitting in the local federal office and see what they
might want for Christmas this year?
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elgatoloco
Maybe open a Chinese Restaurant? Oh wait.......damn dyslexia again. Never mind.
I would check with the government before I did anything maybe find out who is in charge of permitting in the local federal office and see what they
might want for Christmas this year? |
I was wondering when I would have to bribe someone. 
Althoug I had heard horror stories about rip-offs for FMZ land, we didn't run into any problems although there was a complete lack of communication on
their part for two years (and to be honest I had given up- thinking someone in Mexico City was going to give the land to a friend to develop). We
heard absolutely nothing and then they show up at our door wihout any notice and say the title papers are ready.
I don't know what the annual cost of this concession is yet becasue they measure the land in different ways.
Once yuo have an ornamental concession- is it easier to change the type of concession so we could develop public showers and restrooms (witha taco and
surf shop above them of course)?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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elgatoloco
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What other types of concessions are there? Ornamental sounds like you can just build a nice patio with a seawall or something? As opposed to a
Commercial concession if there is such a thing?
You need to get clarification from the feds or else you may end up with mucho problema amigo.
I don't know about the idea of a taco stand in such close proximity to a restroom?
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elgatoloco
I don't know about the idea of a taco stand in such close proximity to a restroom? |
saves a few steps.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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gnukid
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
After two years of waiting, our "ornamental concession" for the Zona Maritime Federal has finally been approved.
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You have the right to use and develop the concession: there are residential and commercial concessions.
Usually the terms in the concession refer to
(1) The purpose for which the land is to be used, usually residential or commercial. However, sometimes special applications such as movie
locations, or research sites are also required.
(2) The term for which occupation is to be granted.
(3) The amount and terms of payments.
(4) An agreement not to block public access to the beach among others.
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So really you can not do anything with the concession property, however, neither can anyone else. You can make a plan and develop the concession into
something as the current holder, provided you follow the proper steps.
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longlegsinlapaz
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Does the concession paperwork itself not have any limitations in it? I know.....way too logical!  I considered getting the concession on the land in front of my Comitan waterfront property, but too many gray areas
& if I remember correctly, it was way too $$ to get it & the annual fee was too much for me to want to proceed. I do know that you can't
build any permanent structures & you can block vehicular traffic, but cannot block foot traffic. Assuming you're joking
about taco stand because you'd have to have working FM3 (which you MIGHT have) & report taco sales to Hacienda & pay taco tax...which sounds
way too much like non-retirement activities to me! I'd definitely check with the
powers that be to find out the "thou shalls" & the "thou shall nots" before you open the first Canlis in Baja!
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Woooosh
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The actual title papers will be delivered Monday and I'll be able to review them closer.
I do know there is a concession for ornamental and another for ornamental for profit (maybe that's horseback rentals). My goal is to improve the
beach for local families and tourists with san diego style beach restrooms and showers- but structure it all it so it doesn't cost me anything out of
pocket. Any suggestions?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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comitan
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The only concession I'm familiar with the papers drawings said the person had to build those circular palapas and some other improvements I don't
remember.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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gnukid
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It should be possible to clean and improve the space without being profitable or incurring costs without any changes to the concession.
Since you are developing your own place, lets say with mexican friends not for profit there is no requirement for incorporation or work permit in
general.
And if it is necessary to alter your concession under threat of fine by a rogue semarnat agent you can negotiate and allow the process to slowly
unfold over the course of years...
Your circumstance is common as are showers and so forth. Often times people truck in more sand or move rocks but these days things are changing.
I would not to move too quickly or dramatically since this would draw the attention of the previous agent who is primarily interested in securing more
funds/fines from gringos with money to spare.
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Woooosh
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Thanks gnukid.
We've been keeping the land clean daily (ok-my nephew does it) and we added a disabled beach wheelchair access point (although everyone blocks the
blue parking area with their cars).
We will add more protection (fill the gaps of the seawall) for the winter storm waves (big rocks if we can find and transport them). None of that
costs much and will cost less than the labor we currently spend on maintaining a sandbag system while waiting for concession approval.
All good response- thanks nomads. keep 'em coming
We were never told excatly what the concession would cost (beyond the $3000 to survery and file it) to renew annnualy because it depends on where
they drew the line in the sand, literally. It is based on square meters- I think 3 pesos per square meter per month or something liek that.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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oladulce
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elgatoloco
What other types of concessions are there? |
Our concession is a "Proteccion" (just got it yesterday after a 3 year wait). We were told that we could landscape and use the area.
An "Ornato" concession was explained to me like this: ok to landscape and put a structure such as a palapa but no concrete or other "permanent"
building materials can be used.
The SEMARNATwebsite used to have the concession classifications explained in the online application section, but they've changed their website again
and I couldn't find anything.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oladulce
| Quote: | Originally posted by elgatoloco
What other types of concessions are there? |
Our concession is a "Proteccion" (just got it yesterday after a 3 year wait). We were told that we could landscape and use the area.
An "Ornato" concession was explained to me like this: ok to landscape and put a structure such as a palapa but no concrete or other "permanent"
building materials can be used.
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A fast-talking real estate attorney (that i chose not to use in the end) walked the area I eventually got with me and told me she did the concession
for the next stretch of beach as an"Ornato concession for profit". I only knew about "Ornato" concessions for no profit. I couldn't think of an
example of how one could profit from an oramental concession and she wouldn't tell me what type of business would fit. I asked a few times what they
were going to do with it. That's why I threw it out here for the nomads in the real world.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
After two years of waiting, our "ornamental concession" for the Zona Maritime Federal has finally been approved.
Our intent was to prevent development on the beach in front of us, for obvious reasons. Now that we have it- what can we do with it? Can we
rent umbrellas and chairs? What can we do on the property to recover the costs of preserving it? If we wanted to build San Diego style public beach
showers and restroom- would that be possible? |
You got a concession to prevent development so you could develop? Most get a concession to prevent it. Beach showers? I'll bet your neighbors will
love you for it. I know I would. 
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The Gull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oladulce
An "Ornato" concession was explained to me like this: ok to landscape and put a structure such as a palapa but no concrete or other "permanent"
building materials can be used. |
That is correct. Some brick planters and a bit of paving stones would work under the definition of Ornato, but when things start going vertical, like
a structure with footings, you are looking at a situation where you would be open to enforcement or the alternative, Mordida. You can put up a shower
with a 2x4 and a hose, not permanent, and usually ugly.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
After two years of waiting, our "ornamental concession" for the Zona Maritime Federal has finally been approved.
Our intent was to prevent development on the beach in front of us, for obvious reasons. Now that we have it- what can we do with it? Can we
rent umbrellas and chairs? What can we do on the property to recover the costs of preserving it? If we wanted to build San Diego style public beach
showers and restroom- would that be possible? |
You got a concession to prevent development so you could develop? Most get a concession to prevent it. Beach showers? I'll bet your neighbors will
love you for it. I know I would. |
  :
We got the final concession papers yesterday- good for 15 years!
I take exception with this post. Yes, we wanted to prevent real estate development in front of our property- and that was the main motivator. Our
neighbor a hundred yards away just got a five story condo building in front of their house completly blocking their light and view of the coronado
islands. The stretch of land in front of ours would have been next- had we not intervened.
But we applied for this concession two years ago - in order to preserve this one small stretch of beach (six building lots wide) for public access and
use, since the land bandits have grabbed and wired-off everything else around. What's wrong with that?
You don't think the disabled beach access we put in was a good thing? It's the ONLY place a disbaled person can wheel themselves out to the water on
a flat hard-packed surface. You don't think a public bathroom and shower is a good thing? I do. There is not one free public beach bathroom in
Rosarito Beach- 5000 people a day in summer using the beach and not one bathroom (which is why mexican families always seem to first pack a shovel and
roll of TP for their beach outing). I'm tired of seeing young girls squat in the street to go bathroom or change clothes while their mother holds a
bedsheet around them. That's not good for anyones self respect. I am tired of people complaining that horses and dogs foul the beach while 5000
people just go in the holes they dig or wade out in the water to do thier business.
We are offering to provide the same basic public facilities that San Diegans enjoy and take for granted. I don't think any San Diegans would consider
their beach bathroom/shower facilites "unwanted development". It's called civilization you putz.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Packoderm
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Perhaps you could get some kind of barge or other portable sort of thing that could theoretically be moved placed on the beach and put a bathroom and
showers on that. With a little imagination, it could be made to look very charming. Developers will be looking for reasons that you are in violation,
so it must be a temporary structure. You could let one of the local ladies charge a peso for toilet paper thus taking care of security.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
Perhaps you could get some kind of barge or other portable sort of thing that could theoretically be moved placed on the beach and put a bathroom and
showers on that. With a little imagination, it could be made to look very charming. Developers will be looking for reasons that you are in violation,
so it must be a temporary structure. You could let one of the local ladies charge a peso for toilet paper thus taking care of security.
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Part of the concession area had a house on it once (taken back by the ocean) that still has the water and sewage pipes undreground. I'm thinking I
can build something simple and tap into the existing sewage drain. Maybe just a simple palapa with some wood panel dividers.
I'm going to get SEMART on-board with us. They were very receptive to the idea of ANYONE providing public sanitary facilites. The rangers (who clean
and maintain the beach) are all for it too.
As for other developers getting irked- I think they are happy no other competing projects will be built near theirs in this tough real estate market.
They can now honestly say there is a protected public beach next door- not another condo building going in some day.
[Edited on 10-17-2008 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Dave
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The Mexican government should give you a medal
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
You don't think a public bathroom and shower is a good thing? I do. There is not one free public beach bathroom in Rosarito Beach- 5000 people a
day in summer using the beach and not one bathroom (which is why mexican families always seem to first pack a shovel and roll of TP for their beach
outing). I'm tired of seeing young girls squat in the street to go bathroom or change clothes while their mother holds a bedsheet around them. That's
not good for anyones self respect. I am tired of people complaining that horses and dogs foul the beach while 5000 people just go in the holes they
dig or wade out in the water to do thier business.
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After determining where you live, I applaud your efforts.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
You don't think a public bathroom and shower is a good thing? I do. There is not one free public beach bathroom in Rosarito Beach- 5000 people a
day in summer using the beach and not one bathroom (which is why mexican families always seem to first pack a shovel and roll of TP for their beach
outing). I'm tired of seeing young girls squat in the street to go bathroom or change clothes while their mother holds a bedsheet around them. That's
not good for anyones self respect. I am tired of people complaining that horses and dogs foul the beach while 5000 people just go in the holes they
dig or wade out in the water to do thier business.
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After determining where you live, I applaud your efforts. |
Thanks Dave. I humbly remove the putz label I bestowed on you in haste. Peace, love and fish tacos!
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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