thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
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Mood: muy amable
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"Friendship Park" split- from NYTimes
Yep, sounds like our good old benevolent government all right... what a compassionate gang they are- NOT
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October 22, 2008
New Fence Will Split a Border Park
By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD
IMPERIAL BEACH, Calif. — At a time of tumult over immigration, with illegal workers routed from businesses, record levels of deportations, border
walls getting taller and longer, Friendship Park here has stood out as a spot where international neighbors can chat easily over the fence.
Or through it, anyway. Families and friends, some of them unable to cross the border because of legal or immigration trouble, exchange kisses, tamales
and news through small gaps in the tattered chain-link fence. Yoga and salsa dancing, communion rites, protest and quiet reflection all transpire in
the shadow of a stone obelisk commemorating the area where Mexican and American surveyors began demarcating the border nearly 160 years ago after the
war between the countries.
“It’s hard to see each other, to touch,” said Manuel Meza, an American citizen sharing coffee and lunch through the fence with his wife, who was
deported and now drives three hours for regular visits at the fence. “It’s strange, but our love is stronger than the fence.”
But in a sign of changing times, new border fencing that the Department of Homeland Security is counting on to help curtail illegal crossings and
attacks on Border Patrol agents will slice through the park, limiting access to the monument and fence-side socializing.
In addition to the fence, a second, steel mesh barrier will line the border for several yards on the United States side, creating a no-man’s land
intended to slow or stop crossings.
With construction expected to begin early next month, the federal and state governments are still negotiating how to provide some access to the
monument. But more than a few San Diegans see a paradox in an area meant to celebrate friendship taking on tones of distance and separation. Pat
Nixon, the former first lady, at a dedication here in 1971, declared, “I hate to see a fence anywhere” as she stepped into Mexico to shake hands.
“It’s harmful to the kind of family culture we have at the border,” said Representative Bob Filner, Democrat of California, who has urged the
department not to build in the park. “We have a friendly country at the border. We have family ties across the border. It is one place, certainly in
San Diego, where we talk about friendship at the border.”
But Border Patrol officials, who regularly post agents there, said the park had an underside.
Although much activity may be innocent, smugglers have taken advantage by passing drugs and contraband through openings. People have even tried to
pass babies through ragged metal slats that mark the border on the beach, said Michael J. Fisher, the chief patrol agent in San Diego. The agency now
operates a checkpoint to screen people leaving the park.
“It’s a real shame,” Mr. Fisher said, gazing down as a young boy playing on the beach darted briefly across the border, then back again. “It is a nice
area with the historical marker. Having people meet and mingle is good. But unfortunately, any time you have an area that is open, the criminal
organizations are going to exploit that.”
“We cannot,” he added, “have it open, not at the expense of reducing the ability to patrol the border.”
The new fencing is part of a 14-mile project to reinforce and build new barriers from the ocean to areas east of the Otay Mesa port of entry. The
project includes filling in a deep valley known as Smuggler’s Gulch, a notorious crossing point just east of the park, with tons of dirt, to the
dismay of environmentalists.
Unlike the trend in the past year or two along most of the 2,000-mile Southwest border, Mr. Fisher said, illegal crossings have increased in the San
Diego area, along with attacks on agents who encounter smugglers raining stones and other objects on them and their trucks. One-fourth of all such
assaults, he said, occur in the San Diego sector, which more than a decade ago was one of the hottest spots for illegal crossings.
While a flood of new agents and bolstered fencing has pushed much of the crossings to the eastern deserts and the sea, where smuggling by boat is a
growing problem, people still regularly climb over, tunnel under or cut through the fence, sometimes with blowtorches and sophisticated cutting tools.
But critics of the plan to extend the fencing in Friendship Park said the Border Patrol had exaggerated problems there, one of a smattering of spots
along the border where the prospect of new fencing has dampened cross-border bonhomie.
Naco, Ariz., no longer plays an annual volleyball game using the fence as a net because the ragged wire one has been replaced by a taller barrier of
solid plates. Residents of Jacumba, Calif., and Jacume, Mexico, who once freely crossed back and forth, complain that reinforced fencing has severed
generation-long ties.
But Friendship Park, part of the surrounding Border Field State Park, had come to symbolize the tight embrace of San Diego and Tijuana, the border’s
biggest cities.
Already, construction of the new fence has cut off a long stretch of the old one. But on a recent Sunday, a steady stream of people came to greet
friends and relatives there.
Jacqueline Huerta pressed her face against the fence on the Tijuana side to get her first look at her 4-month-old niece, Yisell.
“Oh, how cute you are,” she exclaimed, forcing her hand through an opening to caress the baby’s hair.
“Where else can she do that?” said Ms. Huerta’s mother, Socorro Estrada, who drove six hours from Bakersfield, Calif., with family members to the
fence. The baby’s father said he was on probation and could not leave the country and, in any case, Ms. Estrada had advised them against traveling
into Mexico with such a young infant.
Nearby, the Rev. John Fanestil, a United Methodist minister, offered his weekly communion through the fence, passing the wafer through a hole to a
small gathering on the Mexican side. (Technically, that was a customs violation, but Border Patrol agents nearby tolerate most casual contact.)
“Arresting a clergy person for passing a communion wafer through the fence would be a public relations nightmare for them,” Mr. Fanestil said with a
smile just before beginning.
Juventino Martin Gonzalez, 40, accepted the wafer. He had been deported to Mexico a month ago after living and working in the United States for 20
years, fathering three children, now teenagers, here.
He came, he said, for a glimpse of the American side he still considers home.
“It is hard because I was the one paying the rent,” he said. “I belong over there, not here. But until then, this is the closest I can get, but it is
not close enough for them.”
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Woooosh
Banned
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Puhlease... Just put up the double fence there too and secure the friggin border already.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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dao45
Junior Nomad
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Registered: 5-21-2007
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Well of course! We can all see how it worked for china.OH that was a wall not a fence
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LOSARIPES
Nomad
Posts: 283
Registered: 8-14-2008
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Oh Fence... Fence me in, Fence them out, Fence them in, Fence me out.... separate us for whatever purpose or reason ... some see it because of job
protection, others because of drug traffic, terrorism, integrity, sovereignty, etc.
In a relationship of two, one, generally has more power than the other. This US-Mex relationship is no exception, being the US, obviously the
dominating one: The US has more money and all that comes with it.
The US therefore, unilaterally decides to build the fence to keep the Mexicans at bay and enforce entry conditions. The Mexicans must -like scared
puppies- come to the wall, see it, touch it, smell it, and look for holes to get through. I am sure they pee on it too. If the Mexicans could, just
could for once say... you know what? F*** You and your wall... adios!.. and walk away and never... never come back... if the Mexicans said....
what?... $100.00 for a tourist visa application? -just the application, no visa guarantee- no thanks... and never come back.... if the Mexicans
could tell AZ's Arpaio what they feel about the raids and his deportation of workers and their wives and children.... this whole thing would be a
different story. But it isn't. And it is very sad to see how the dominant party abuses his power. The US systematically offends, ridicules and
belittles Mexicans to the point that the M word is almost synonym of "Illegal; Ignorant; lesser; lacking" to many US ears.
On the other hand, the weak party of this relationship welcomes the strong one with open arms... no conditions.... no visa.... please drive in....
I am sorry I will have to ask you get an FMT card... mi casa es tu casa.... It is like "I let you beat me because I love you" relationship... and
the US goes at it.... that is sad. Imagine they slam a door on your face -literally- and you apologize for standing so close and come back for more...
smiling and they slam it on you again...
One has to stop reading the US papers and come to Mexico to meet Mexicans in their environment to understand them and their culture. (like many nomads
have done) Like in the US, there is pride, honor and integrity amongst many Mexican families. They don't need to jump any fence to get what they want.
They don't need a visa to go abroad, much less if it is going to involve stepping on his own dignity...There are many Mexican folks who gave up on
visiting the US. They have already said "No thanks. I'll buy my Chinese goods at Costco.... I'll have my kids watch the Disney Channel instead of
going to Disneyland".. they are now discovering mainland Mexico and those who travel, going to Canada and other countries. Not that this would hurt
the US, but it should not happen. Things should be different.
That second fence behind the fence will soon require another fence..... I certainly hope so, until we realize we need to tear them down and work on
a different approach.
Aripes
God bless America
and Baja tambien
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Location: San Diego County
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Baja Nomads who are not Mexican already probably all love Mexico and Mexicans... it makes sense.
The issue is respect for the law and the border... We get tourist cards (visas) to travel south for over 72 hours or beyond the 'border zone' as
Mexican law dictates. If foreignors are found breaking the law in Mexico, they are deported. Mexico sets their own laws.
The U.S. also has laws/ rules for tourists and immigrants. The reason for the fence is because people are not obeying U.S. laws... If they did, then
no fence would be needed.
As for the fees to get a U.S. visa... I suppose the costs for processing are so much higher here... plus we have to have a special agency to patrol
the border for the law breakers... all that isn't cheap! While tourists from Mexico to the U.S. do spend good money while here, I don't think it is a
major economic income producer for the U.S. that it offsets the cost of the law breakers... so visa rules probably won't get any easier... just my
opinion. It is a bummer for the honest Mexicans who want to visit this country, for sure.
Mexico needs tourism for income, so the easier it is for tourists to enter Mexico, the better for the economy. Tourist cards for up to 7 days are free
and 8-180 days about US$20. (they too used to be free before 2000). That is just reality... it may not be fair... a lot in life seldom is...
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
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Scuttle the wall construction. It is a waste of money that we don't have anymore. As I have stated here many times before(I'm trying to couch this in
terms that conservatives understand), "market conditions" will regulate the immigration flow. No jobs, no money in the U.S. and they won't come. We
have arrived at that point.
Follow the money. Whose pet project is the wall? What is to be gained? It is not going to stop the drug traffic.
It is a boondoggle! A waste! It has nothing to do with respect for the law.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
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Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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the problem is if you can pass tamales through the fence you can pass anything else also.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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With all respect, folks, we have tried the "open border" for years and years--------------IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!
I spent 13 years in El Centro in Federal Law Enforcement prior to 1986 as a supervisor-------it was NOT working then, and it does not work now, and
now the problem is compounded.
We have been throwing this politial football around long enough------just get the darn fense built, the sooner the better, and a double fense is even
better.
I wish you could all listen to my friends in Palm Springs behind walled enclaves telling us what goes on OUTSIDE their "enclaves", and maybe you would
get the picture-------fences work--------just look at all the fenced homes in Mexicalli, etc.. ----- hint, hint---------does that tell you
anything??? It sure does me. If the fense just stops 20% of the illegals, it is worth it.
Barry
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
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I am completely baffled....build a wall, fence, or moat but there are 1000s of Mexcian going across the border daily to work. I do not see how there
is anyway to stop the movement of people. It has never been stopped and never will be with any type of artificial barricade. Most the of the u.s.
border area is predominantly Mexican or Spanish speaking now or hasn't anyone noticed? Mexico will reclaim its lost territory sooner or later.
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Woooosh
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
I am completely baffled....build a wall, fence, or moat but there are 1000s of Mexcian going across the border daily to work. I do not see how there
is anyway to stop the movement of people. It has never been stopped and never will be with any type of artificial barricade. Most the of the u.s.
border area is predominantly Mexican or Spanish speaking now or hasn't anyone noticed? Mexico will reclaim its lost territory sooner or later.
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Now THAT'S a funny post!
Yes, good walls and fences work- remember Berlin? And IMHO good fences make good neighbors. The front door to the USA is wide open for those with
legal documentation.
Mexico seems to want it both ways. It wants the USA to stop southbound guns and cash, but enough holes in the border fence northbound for illegal
immigration and the drug flow north to continue.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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LOSARIPES
Nomad
Posts: 283
Registered: 8-14-2008
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| Quote: |
Mexico seems to want it both ways. It wants the USA to stop southbound guns and cash, but enough holes in the border fence northbound for illegal
immigration and the drug flow north to continue. |
Yes, Mexico wants an needs the US to stop guns going south.
Yes, Mexico would like the fence to have holes. Nothing wrong with that:
Too many deaths in crime fighting so far and counting. Mexico does not make guns and most of them come from/via the US. Sow what's up with that? Can
the US stop gun traffic? It appears it doesn't want to as there might be other interests involved.
Holes in the fence? Yes. They'd love that so they would not need to build tunnels, but not for drug traffic. Mexico fights drug traffic. I don't think
there is any doubt of that.
But let's talk about holes: The US demands that Mexico and other countries in its backyard (Latin America) fight traffic. If they do, they get the
coveted "certification" which qualifies the country as trustworthy for business with the US. The certified country can receive US loans, aid, support.
The US will do business with it and open for commerce, tourism, etc. The certified country gets a star on his forehead.
The US on the other hand must, on its own, fight gun traffic and drug consumption. At his own pace and level of involvement. There is no
certification issued from anybody. Not even from the UN, much less from a "third world" country.
(I've always disliked this "third world" term.... its like "first lady".. would my sister be "a millionth"?... not last for sure..)
Anyway... guns keep flowing to Mexico via the US. Drug demand and consumption in the US keeps growing. It appears that the US is not doing its
part... if guns surface in Mexico enough to outgun the army, we all collectively, have a serious problem. US traffickers, Mexican customs, all
mafiosos working together. Those are serious holes. Holes in policy that need to be dealt with before we point fingers. A hole in a fence that allows
Maria to cross and see her children and clean the neighbor's house is not going to hurt anybody other than Arpaio's racist/abusive pride. That is not
where we need to focus.
As posted above by Toneart, fences will not stop immigration flow. Its the job market what determines the flow. We need a solid, just, equitable and
fair policy where we all do our part. A policy without holes.
One policy that will restore order and dignity to all so we can live as true neighbors........ yeah... most will say I've been smoking.... but I
mean it.
Aripes
God bless America
and Baja tambien
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Nothing new under the Sun. At least not here. Same arguments, same positions, usual suspects.
Build the walls. "Round em up. Head em out. Rolling, Rolling, Rolling.......Rawhide".
ONE bright thought is that, SOON, you may not be able to quote from the New York Times. They are in truly serious financial trouble
and financial experts consider it LIKELY that they can't survive. NBC (GE) may not be far behind. Serves them right.
THAT will be a day worth celebrating.
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Kell-Baja
Nomad
Posts: 360
Registered: 1-18-2003
Location: San Diego
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How sad all of this is
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