| Pages:
1
2 |
Katiejay99
Nomad
Posts: 429
Registered: 9-3-2008
Location: Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: it is what it is
|
|
drug wars
The thread started by gnukid "false drug wars" has been closed to new posts, but I felt it necessary to add my two centabos worth.
I agree with gnukid to a certain extent and I understand the reasoning behind the other posts. Having said that, I would question gnukid as to how he
can claim that others have made threats and could be “banned permanently” when he turns right around and does basically the same thing with that same
threat?
We are a species of varying ideals, consciousness and values and to each their own. I advocate peace as well, I mean geesh, if you’re gonna fight
about something, why not fight (stand up) for peace instead of continued war.
Of course the best solution is to wipe out all drugs – which is an impossibility. I think even the name we give it “illegal drugs” is in and of itself
insane. People choose to “get high” illegally and legally, it is their God-given choice to do as they please. The problem arises when those who do
choose to alter their consciousness in this manner cause death and destruction to others on this planet. Therein lies the problem.
So, will making “illegal drugs” legal solve the problem? Is it the drugs or is it the person who takes them? I would choose to think that if we
offered more compassion to the “users” they would then choose not to use. You could do that by offering to teach them things which enhance their life
through community support, rather than putting them away (either permanently as Dave suggested or into a prison).
If we could turn around and help the ones who use, perhaps by teaching them about camping, fishing and the wonders of Mother Nature, it would make an
impression on them. Perhaps offering to take some of them on a hiking, camping or fishing trip would help them mentally connect to the actual
realities of life, instead of living in a drug induced state of illusion.
Baja has some of the most extraordinary medicinal plants growing here than most any other place on earth. Teaching others about their medicinal
qualities and showing them how to cultivate, use and perhaps sell them would be a far more appropriate use of their “personship”. Just look at all of
the Damiana, Oregano and countless other plants which grow here like “weeds”.
As a community, either in cyber-space or physically, we owe it to our fellow humans to help, teach and pass along positive information which can not
only help them, but our society and planet as well.
So, does legalizing drugs actually answer the question or promote the problem? I think the basic “problem” is the confusion which some of our people
have about life and living in it. Getting back to basics is a great way to ground someone and hopefully open up their eyes and heart about what life
is all about. Peace, compassion and community.
|
|
|
Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
|
|
Great post. My favorite baja weed is Rosemary actually- IMHO nothing is better than grilled Rosemary-skewered shrimp with garlic butter.
The problem with the legalizing or not-legalizing drugs argument is that BOTH sides are right- but not compatible.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
99;
Very good take on the Thread and the Drug Wars.
Yes, legalize drugs and you take the Profit out.
Education and legal Drugs do not stop their use. Look and some of the other Countries.
Just think about the vast difference between the Extreme Left and Right in our Country today.
The Individual is the Answer as it is them who has the Freedom to Excersie their own Free Will and Accord.
Sometimes I think that it is just another way for "Survival of the Fitest"".
Gnukid should first learn to Control his remarks,in a Manner that will not "Overload " his readers.
Second, he should learn that when you overdo or overkill you lose many of your originial viewers.
Third: There is Always 2 Sides to any Problem.
He should not use the Phrase"Power to the People"! That excites some of us old Folks who associate that with the "Commies" and Socies".
Skeet
|
|
|
Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
|
|
what skeet said
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
 |
|
|
gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Right on Skeet, I'm going sailing
|
|
|
Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
|
|
sailing is the best therapy in the world. what better way to relax and forget about the worlds problems. I hope I can go with you some day.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
|
|
|
mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18845
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
|
|
Would be great if we could all legally grow pot in our own yards for personal consumption.
|
|
|
mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18845
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Katiejay99
If we could turn around and help the ones who use, perhaps by teaching them about camping, fishing and the wonders of Mother Nature, it would make an
impression on them. Perhaps offering to take some of them on a hiking, camping or fishing trip would help them mentally connect to the actual
realities of life, instead of living in a drug induced state of illusion.
|
Nothing better than some weed or shrooms to enhance the camping and nature experience.
|
|
|
geobas
Banned
Posts: 27
Registered: 9-1-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Yes, legalize drugs and you take the Profit out. |
Well. I hate to argue with such a wise old sage such as you , skeet, but you have it wrong. Take a lesson from history. Prohibition ended in 1933 and
moonshining is still a billion dollar business in the US. Legalizing alcohol didn't stop the illegal production of it. If you legalize drugs, the drug
gangs will still be out there selling the illegal drugs undercutting the price of the legal product. The only difference is that now they will have
more customers.
|
|
|
Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by geobas
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Yes, legalize drugs and you take the Profit out. |
Well. I hate to argue with such a wise old sage such as you , skeet, but you have it wrong. Take a lesson from history. Prohibition ended in 1933 and
moonshining is still a billion dollar business in the US. Legalizing alcohol didn't stop the illegal production of it. If you legalize drugs, the drug
gangs will still be out there selling the illegal drugs undercutting the price of the legal product. The only difference is that now they will have
more customers. |
the other difference is that pot is the #1 cash crop in the USA, and, if legalized and taxed would wipe out the national debt.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
|
|
|
Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3545
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
|
|
Live to surf surf to live
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Gnukid should first..... Second, he should learn.... He should not use the Phrase"Power to the People"! That excites some of us old Folks who
associate that with the "Commies" and Socies". |
Sure a lot of should(s) here.
Maybe gnukid should be gnukid.
''Power to the People.'' ''During the 1960s in the United States, young people began speaking and writing this phrase as a form of rebellion against
what they perceived as the oppression of the older generation, especially The Establishment. The Black Panthers used the slogan "All
Power to the People" to protest the rich, ruling class domination of society. Pro-democracy students used it to protest America's military campaign in
Vietnam.'' Wikipedia.
Some generations don't give a hoot about whether geezers get excited, or not.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
|
|
|
toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
|
|
You all have insights, albeit different pieces of the puzzle. All insights have some merit. Those merits are valued differently by different
individuals. Some are totally debunked.
It is difficult to marry the varied insights when they carry so much emotional baggage...for lots of reasons.
Katiejay has a benevolent message of peace and love.
Gnukid has some of the same but lots more emotional baggage and consequently, frustration.
Skeet has his own cop views which has reinforced his adamance.
Some of you talk about taking out the profit motive by legalizing drugs.
Here are my thoughts:
As stated above, all of these ideas could work together, but more emotional detachment is required to see how the whole picture works.
When talking about drugs, most people have a drug of choice. For the majority it is alcohol. All drugs have the capacity to cause destruction and
attract crime when abused; destruction of health, family relationships, social relationships, work, productivity, and they are prone to inattention to
impending hazards.
It is important to learn the levels of destruction of each drug and not to paint them all with a broad brush.
Pot is the least dangerous, although used in excess can cause some deterioration of otherwise normal functions. Pot users tend to be less aggressive,
less motivated to participate in social situations and menial work, and are somewhat lethargic. Depending on your view of the world, this isn't all
necessarily bad. For sure, they are not a threat to others. Pot also has lots of benefits; the greatest being medicinal...mostly in pain control.
It offers a window into Spirituality, creativity, introspection and non-violence. (I realize that this sentence will be met with utter denial and
outright anger by some). If you reject the premise, so be it. I am not a crusader and I don't care if you reject it. When I say "it offers a window
into....." I mean just that. It is just a glimpse. You have to still do the hard work to reach a higher Spiritual plane or to advance to the Master
level in your art.
My main point is that it should NOT be included in the same category as hard drugs and even alcohol. It is NOT a first step to hard drugs or crime. It
should be decriminalized. That will free up resources to go after the dangerous drugs, criminals and users who sell or otherwise engage in crime.
Something else that has been discussed is the disposition of the apprehended user (of hard drugs). The element that is so apparent as to be often
overlooked in these discussions, is that hard drugs are addictive! This does matter, in that the addict is not in control; of his
actions or of his life. You might certainly fault him for taking that first curious step, but very quickly it causes a chemical dependency that
overtakes the brain and the body. It is a medical condition.
This requires a huge level of compassion, understanding, and patience. Not everyone is capable of this, nor should they be. It needs to be sorted out
by family, loved ones, law enforcement, doctors, clinical workers, social workers, anyone else who possesses those attributes and most of all, the
individual addict.
Everyone deserves a chance. It is very difficult! Some make it and go on to benefit society, and sadly, many don't. It really does depend on the
individual's desire and will to change. Friends who have made it through that dark tunnel have told me that it was the hardest thing they have ever
done, and also the most rewarding. Lives can be saved, with intervention, help and love. Some are hopeless and in my opinion, castaways.
|
|
|
Mango
Senior Nomad
Posts: 685
Registered: 4-11-2006
Location: Alta California &/or Mexicali
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bajatastic
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
sailing is the best therapy in the world. what better way to relax and forget about the worlds problems. I hope I can go with you some day.
|
Likewise.  Good wind to all. 
"It's remarkable how quickly a good and favorable wind can sweep away the maddening frustrations of shore living".
-Ernest K. Gann
|
|
|
Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
|
|
the only bad wind is no wind
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
|
|
|
Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
I would rather that they fought and won the war on cancer, or would that be more difficult to win than the war on drugs? I guess it depends upon their
priorities. The sheer number of deaths due to cancer must be considerably higher than that of drugs. If not preventing deaths, what are their
priorities?
|
|
|
greybaby
Nomad
Posts: 182
Registered: 10-8-2004
Location: Idaho - formerly Cantu
Member Is Offline
Mood: Missing Baja
|
|
Having been raised in the 60's and never even experimenting with any kind of drugs (I know, I lived a sheltered life), it was heart-breaking to see
one of our sons return from Iraq and instead of deal with the PTSD, he turned to drugs to numb the pain. So would having illegal drugs (cocaine was
his drug of choice) legalized have helped him? No way. He was addicted, a user, one who could not think straight because he was under the influence
a good part of the time. There are all kinds of prescription drugs out there gotten supposedly legitimately and are being sold to users. Until our
son faced up to the fact that he was addicted and could not help himself, checked into an inpatient rehab program at the VA hospital here on his own,
there was almost nothing we could do (I work in healthcare, my husband works with drug addicts). During his time in rehab he was finally able to face
his demons, not be afraid to go to sleep because of nightmares about the war and realize there was another way to deal with life than be under the
influence. Was it easy? NO!!!! Would he have been better off locked up in prison? Of course, as a mother I don't think so but he certainly broke
the law. I simply thank God every day that his life was saved before he killed himself or someone else. Drugs are horrible - legal or illegal. I am
convinced legalizing street drugs would not help those in our society who are hooked. They're at the bottom of the heap.
I'm not sure if this makes sense to anyone else unless their lives have been personally touched by the horror of seeing a loved one self-destructing
before your eyes and having to wait for them to realize they are the only one who can change it.
Alcohol is legal but I don't see where it has done diddily squat to lower the number of alcoholics in this world.
I guess that was my dos centavos worth. As someone who could stand at a distance and judge others in the past for being addicted to drugs and
thinking they were stupid to being humbled by having your child nearly throw his life away because of them changed me forever. At least give it some
thought.
|
|
|
BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
|
|
I understand your point and pain having lost two very close to me to drug addiction and another right now dealing with an addiction to heroin. My
heart goes out to you.
Nobody said that legalizing alcohol would lower the number of alcoholics. It just took the control away from the mafia and allowed it to regulated and
taxed. Those who have a desire to use a drug, be it alcohol, weed, cocaine, cigarettes or other will do so, be it legal or not. It is paramount to
trying to stamp out prostitution or homosexuality. Behavioral choices are just that and society will never eradicate behavior driven by the bodies
desire. All we can do is hold people accountable for their actions which is why we should have laws against driving under the influence, public
intoxication, etc.
It is not a perfect answer but we do not live in a perfect world...
|
|
|
LOSARIPES
Nomad
Posts: 283
Registered: 8-14-2008
Member Is Offline
|
|
It has been proven: Social tendencies will prevail over the law. Prohibition makes it harder but at the same time, more rewarding. Some people risk
and lose their lives for those rewards, so what else can the law do? Threat with torture? Not even that would stop them and that would be illegal (We
know that torture is common practice sin some places)
BajaGringo has it right: ..." Behavioral choices are just that and society will never eradicate behavior driven by the bodies desire"..........
Legalize and regulate. Educate and educate.... save our children through education, not prohibition.
Aripes
God bless America
and Baja tambien
|
|
|
Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
|
|
It would not do any good legalizing drugs as you would still have drug addicts and drug addicts like to steal and commit robberies to get money for
the drugs. Pot is basically legal in California right now as less than an ounce you can only be fined up to $100 dollars and most law enforcement
officers do not even want to mess with what is basically an infraction. However, almost every employer does drug tests and even if you try a blocking
agent depending on how high the enity is testing will determine if blocking agent is identified as being in your system. Thus, you will fail the test
on the spot and that is that. It does not matter if drugs were legal employers do not want the liability and that makes for having a lot of people
unemployed. I do not use nor have I ever used due to being a high school and college wrestler did not want to screw up my training and my dad would
have kicked the crap out of me !! Pot is not the big thing driving users to
harder drugs but those using harder drugs drag these people that have little control over their desire to get high, then higher, and then just can't
seem to catch that high that made them think more of getting drugs instead of getting sex, Now That is Just DAMN Well Not American, as we Americans
both male and females like to pop the cold ones but appreciate the hot ones too!!!!! Later---bajafun777
|
|
|
gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
Would be great if we could all legally grow pot in our own yards for personal consumption. |
Legally you can grow medical marijuana in California and 8 other states. As it states, the federal law making it illegal does not apply to patients
and caregivers. You simply need a note from a doctor. The California ninth appelate court recently decided that all counties in California (where you
reside apparently) must conform to prop 215.
Each County must maintain a location to distribute medical marijuana identification cards which identify you as a patient or caregiver and allow you
to legally grow and possess marijuana.
I know this because I read it in the paper but I do not have personal experience.
There are legal medical marijuana dispenseries in every county.
http://ww2.cdph.ca.gov/programs/MMP/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.marijuana.com/medicinal-marijuana/106366-shibshib...
http://www.chrisconrad.com/expert.witness/Prop215.html
http://greenbridgemed.com/law_215.htm
Apparently the same is true in Canada
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3989
To all of you who love to insult and argue; this is the law. Its not my practice or my opinion. So please keep your insults to spelling related
comments ;-)
Trivia: Senate Bill 420 which reaffirms and extends prop 215 (1996) legalizing medical marijuana was passed into California law in 2003 challenges
have been denied by the Ninth Circuit Court in 2008.
[Edited on 11-4-2008 by gnukid]
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
