RandyMacSC/SO
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Found While Hiking in Sierra de la Lagunas
Can anyone identify these carved figurine objects that I found while hiking in the Sierra de la Lagunas?
They look like carved figurines of ancient Aztec origin to me. I am familar with Mayan carved figurines but know little of what ancient Baja
California peoples might have made these items. And since I don't recall the Aztecs or other ancients from the Mexican mainland venturing across the
Sea of Cortez to the Baja California area, I'm at a loss for an explanation. Maybe they did?
These are real bad photos as I couldn't get better photographs because my digital camera got wet and it eventually died during the hike. I got these
real poor photos on night just before the camera packed it in. I buried the items in a special place in the canyon and know how and where to find them
again. I thought I had lost these photos and found them late tonight while sorting more trip photos from last year.
Found while hiking down the canyon towards Santiago from on top of the Sierra de la Lagunas Bisosphere Park accessed from near Todos Santos.
I wanted to stay longer in the area, and look for more items, but I was with some other hikers. I didn't know these people that well so I didn't show
them where I found the items, as I am real sensitive to people taking artifacts out of Mexico. I also didn't want to be caught carrying the items on
the highways back around the where I camped, as a Canadian (from Calgary) spent 2 years in a Mexican jail for carrying some rare artifacts out of the
jungle in the Yucatan.
I don't know much about the history of this area or the ancient people and their various forms of ancient arts. Perhaps someone knows what these
figurines are and can identify them from these real rough digital photos?
I plan to hike back into the area next winter and put them back exactly where I found them. I feel I may have disturbed something by accident and I
don't need my mojo messed up by any ancient spirits. Been concerned that this might be why I was feeling so crappy late last year.
Perhaps jrbaja has came across something similar. They look like carved figurines of Aztec origin to me.
RandyMac
[Edited on 5-23-2004 by RandyMac]
[Edited on 5-23-2004 by RandyMac]
[Edited on 5-23-2004 by RandyMac]
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Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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RandyMacSC/SO
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Cause for bad mojo?
[Edited on 5-23-2004 by RandyMac]
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Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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jrbaja
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Quite the find Randy
I can't help you with their origins or how they got there. But, I'm pretty sure they didn't come from a gum machine or toy store.
I recommend taking some better photos and then putting them back. Maybe AA or one of the professionals on here can help.
The La Paz museum has a number of things like that but you probably don't want to talk to them about it.
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academicanarchist
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Figures
They look to me like reproductions of Central Mexican figurines from prior to the conquest.
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Packoderm
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Just a hoax?
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Speedy Gonzalez
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Those figures are copies from the prehispanic cultures in the Central plateau, from places like Teotihuacan, Tula or Tenochtitlan. I have many such
figures myself.
You can buy them all over in Mexico. At the archeological sites, at the Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City etc. Aprox. 10 Pesos a piece.
I guess that probably someone put them where you found them because there is no evidence that people from Teotihuacan, Toltecs or Aztecs ever came to
Baja California.
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jrbaja
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Check for "made in Japan" on the back
It may have been another one of that rapscallion "Jimmy Smiths" pranks. Sounds like his doing to me ! hahahahahaha
I new he was still with us! Just a little more comfortable now.
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Jack Swords
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Bogus artifacts
There are many bogus artifacts out there. The photo is of paintings at Valle Montevido and I know for a fact that there are planted arrowheads of
recent manufacture there. There is apparently a bit of Jimmy Smith in others too.
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Jack Swords
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The photo
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bajalera
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Randy says carved, but these things look like pottery, which wasn't reported for this area in prehispanic times.
bajalera
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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RandyMacSC/SO
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hoax, modern ceramic knockoffs, or ancient artifacts, who knows?
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalera
Randy says carved, but these things look like pottery, which wasn't reported for this area in prehispanic times.
bajalera |
They were definitely ceramic material, and detailed. My questions.
1. If they are a sophisticated or even rough forgeries, why would someone place them where they might never ever be found? It was by pure chance that
I came across these items while hiking in the Sierra de la Lagunas. I have never hiked in this area before and I was told very few people ever hike
directly down the canyons as the dense underbrush and huge boulders makes hiking in the canyon bed extremely difficult and often dangerous. The
rancheros looking for their cattle are about the only people who hike up and down the canyon on a regular basis.
2. I am not in the business of solving mysteries and since posting the question here, I have been contacted by some who say that they should be
tracked down again and given directly to reputable archaeologists and anthropologists that are familiar with Baja California and mainland Mexico
artifacts. They are in the business of solving mysteries, and if they are fakes, they'll find out quick. They told me they use their scientific
methods and knowledge of corpse-eating insects and the oxidation of metals by bacteria to assess the authenticity of possible ancient ceramic
figurines. If and when I hike back up into the area (planned for this winter Dec/Jan/Feb) I will find them again where I buried them and bring them
down and hand them over to these so called experts for examination. That is unless heavy rains have buried them again, or have altered the area
terrain where I can't find them again. I buried them in an easily identifiable place, and toook possible rain movement into account, so I should be
able to track them down.
3. Hoax? Very possible. Many of you are more familar with the 'Lots of time on their hands' types and the games that some Baja Enthusiasts play on
each other for entertainment and debate.
I head to Baja C for hiking, relaxation and snorkeling and cold beer. I am interested in indigenous cultures and ancient stuff but not enough to get
involved in the games. I didn't realise that hoaxs were a regular thing being played in Baja C until I posted this. I read today that authentic
ancient figures are valuable to scientists as clues to an ancient people's way of life, and to collectors of antiquities as works of art and this
combination has fueled a vigorous underground market in sophisticated forgeries. I am into hiking and don't really have time to get diverted into
another area of interest at my age. But then it comes back to why hide these figurines in this canyon where the likelihood of being discovered is
remote? Why wouldn't someone playing a hoax place them somewhere else in lower Baja California area frequently trafficed, where they would be more
likely to be found by those searching for such artifacts?
This is a photo of the general area where I found the figurines. Not your regular place to hike, and nor would I suspect the best place to hide some
artifacts as a hoax. If I hadn't decided to head off the main trail towards the canyon bed, and moved dirt and rocks in the process while climbing up
over rocks and thick underbrus to get to the canyon bed edge, , they'd probably still be buried forever, until chance disturbed them and someone else
found them.
My Japanese friend Hagi followed me from the main trail and took this photo of me with my digital camera just before I dropped it and it got wet.
I'm not going to get too excited about this stuff. My guess, they could be as some said. Replica figurines picked up in mainland Mexico and brought
over recently (last 20 years) by some ranchero type and cherished, then lost while the ranchero was walking in the canyon area looking for his cows.
Just a little curiousity until proven otherwise I guess.
[Edited on 5-25-2004 by RandyMac]
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Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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RandyMacSC/SO
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main trail down left side of canyon
I took this photo of Hagi before making my way towards the canyon bed. The underbrush is so thick, most any hiker wouldn't drive their way thru the
crap, but Hagi and I wanted to find some water.
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Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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RandyMacSC/SO
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the main canyon bed and thick underbrush
I guess the canyon flows from the side hills could have washed the items into the dirt and rocks just before the canyon bed.
Who knows?
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Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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jrbaja
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That's a good one Randy
I received a lot of input regarding caves and arrowheads. My girlfriend still thinks they were made yeaterday!hahahaha
Nevertheless, I personally decided after much input to show the pictures and zip it. Probably better for everyone, including whoever left the
items.
Besides, it adds to the mystery and adventure, dontcha think. Great story, I bet I'm not the only one curious according to the replies.
One thing for certain, new or old, how did the friggen things get there? Anyone considered the Brujas I was mentioning earlier? Don't rub em
together whatever ya do!
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Mexray
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Sounds like an early 'Geocache' to me...did you log it in?
Those kinds of mysteries sure can be fun...there are so many possibilities - including that they were lost by an ancient traveler looking for water,
as you guys were!
Thanks for sharing the fun!
[Edited on 26-5-2004 by Mexray]
According to my clock...anytime is \'BAJA TIME\' & as Jimmy Buffett says,
\"It doesn\'t use numbers or moving hands It always just says now...\"
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academicanarchist
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real artifacts
The attached photo is of several pre-hispanic artifacts from Jalisco that I was given many years ago. You can see that they look very different from
the ones that Randy found.
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