David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64889
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
New Wep page: Finding a 'lost mission' (Santa Maria Magdalena) and Indian rock circles.
Hola amigos,
I have taken several of the photos we took of the site (on 1-2-09) along with a satellite map showing where the various ruins are located, that we
found that day and made a web page to show the site.
If you missed the Baja News or Baja Trip Report posts here on Nomad: After Sharksbaja spotted an interesting line on a hill using Google Earth on his
computer, he asked me if it could be the 'lost mission' site that was first reported in 1966 by Choral Pepper following an expedition into the region
south of Bahia de los Angeles, beyond any roads.
I met with Choral several times and talked with others on the 1966 Erle Stanley Gardner expedition. None recalled the exact location, but Pepper had
described it well and included two photographs taken at the site. Choral believed it must be the mission shown in the area on a 1757 Jesuit mao as
'started'... but apparently abandoned before becoming fully operational.
See the 1966 photos, the 1757 map, our new photos and more at http://vivabaja.com/109
Please examine and provide us with some ideas of what this was: Abandoned Spanish Mission or Fort, Native Indian Village, Sheep herders hangout, Alien
space port... ???
Many thanks!
Click here: Lost Mission (?) Found
>>> Updated 1-16-09 with new URL for web page!
[Edited on 1-16-2009 by David K]
|
|
|
Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
|
|
One idea that crossed my mind was that perhaps calves were reared up there to minimize losses to wolves and cats. They would then be led or lowered
down after maturing a bit. Well maybe not.
The unusual placement(s) to me means an unusual reason. How would one know if animals were the predominate users and not people?
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64889
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
In the article, Pepper concluded since shells were heavily deposited in the rock rings... they must have been for human habitation and not livestock
pens.
That doesn't mean the livestock didn't roam around the other parts of the mesa. I am not certain if the south or southwest end of the mesa has such
steep sides...
|
|
|
BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
|
|
David:
Did you see any evidence at all of any modern day visitors to the site?
(tecate cans / candy wrappers / etc)
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64889
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
David:
Did you see any evidence at all of any modern day visitors to the site?
(tecate cans / candy wrappers / etc) |
No, it was as if nobody has been there since 1966. The only 'trash' was the 260+ year old clam and oyster shells all over the top, inside the rock
circles.
Anyone have access to carbon dating equipment to determine when the shell fish was consumed up there?
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64889
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
I switched a couple of photos in the web page to better ones depicting the site or what caption says... As soon as I have more details on Dr. Eric
Ritter's archaeological discoveries at Las Animas/ Cerro de las Calaveras, I will add them, too... The truth is out there! 
|
|
|
Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
|
|
Might have to retract a few things.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
|
|
|
Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
|
|
As I have stated on the other post, the "Cerro de las Caleveras" turns out to be NOT the site that David has just explored------as per my conversation
with Dr. Eric Ritter, or at least the way I understood him in my talks tonight with him.
Barry
|
|
|
Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
|
|
The way those walls are placed it doesn't seem to me to make sense as a corral (have those type of enclosures been seen at other mission sites?).
That along with the age of the patina on the rocks described by Choral makes me think the walls are a lot older than 250 years. Not that this
excludes the site as the lost mission--but not everything on that mesa has to fit into one time period.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64889
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Yes, it seems that way... Since none of us were alive back then, we can only make assumptions or guesses based on what we find there.
1) Lots of man-made activity: rock walls, rock circles, rock and earth dam and walls... Cleared chute for dragging items up the mesa... caves (they
don't seem natural)...
2) Some of the items may be Spanish era (260 years old) and some may be a lot older than that!
I have emailed Dr. Ritter and hope to have some more information and to clear up the difference between his Cerro de las Calaveras and the lava mesa
site my photos were of.
Stay tuned!
[Edited on 1-13-2009 by David K]
|
|
|
Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
The way those walls are placed it doesn't seem to me to make sense as a corral (have those type of enclosures been seen at other mission sites?).
That along with the age of the patina on the rocks described by Choral makes me think the walls are a lot older than 250 years. Not that this
excludes the site as the lost mission--but not everything on that mesa has to fit into one time period. |
That wall looks like it may or may not form a practical use. There is no way they would keep animals corraled unless it was an incomplete structure.
W/o seeing it firsthand it's hard to get a feeling for it's past purpose. Could it have been constructed to keep winds from punishing those
inhabiting the top of the hill?
I wonder what the climate was like back when the walls were built. The place may have had a water source and was used periodically by Nomadic
communities. Yes, Nomads.
Dr Ritter says the rings and artifacts from the immediate area are 1000-6000 years old. Very interesting to say the least.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
|
|
|
Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
|
|
Sharks------------"Immediate area" is a relative term------the two sites are miles apart.
Barry
|
|
|
Steve in Oro Valley
Nomad
Posts: 105
Registered: 11-14-2002
Location: Near Tucson
Member Is Offline
|
|
Hi all:
It appears from the maps in my possession that the water course that flows by the mesa is the San Pedro arroyo which comes out at Bahia Las Animas...
The San Pedro arroyo could have been flowing more reliably in times past...
As a possible comparison:
The Cerro Prieto trincheras site (NW of Tucson) was located near the once constantly flowing Santa Cruz River near the junction with the Brawley wash.
There were rock walls running in different directions along with reservoirs, crop fields, even a ball court.... The Santa Cruz has dried up during
the last century because of all the population growth (and climate change?)
Some of the walls were used for planters and as the bases of brush huts...
Some areas seem to have been used for astrological purposes and religious and cultural purposes.... Defensive purposes, too
Also there apparently was once an actual spring on the side of one the volcanic hills with a large rock channel leading down the slope...
By the way are there not some "paredas" down near Santa Gertrudis which are somewhat of mysterious origins?? I read about them in Patchen's BAJA
OUTPOST of a couple years ago.......
Steve in Oro Valley
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64889
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Steve in Oro Valley
Hi all:
It appears from the maps in my possession that the water course that flows by the mesa is the San Pedro arroyo which comes out at Bahia Las Animas...
The San Pedro arroyo could have been flowing more reliably in times past...
As a possible comparison:
The Cerro Prieto trincheras site (NW of Tucson) was located near the once constantly flowing Santa Cruz River near the junction with the Brawley wash.
There were rock walls running in different directions along with reservoirs, crop fields, even a ball court.... The Santa Cruz has dried up during
the last century because of all the population growth (and climate change?)
Some of the walls were used for planters and as the bases of brush huts...
Some areas seem to have been used for astrological purposes and religious and cultural purposes.... Defensive purposes, too
Also there apparently was once an actual spring on the side of one the volcanic hills with a large rock channel leading down the slope...
By the way are there not some "paredas" down near Santa Gertrudis which are somewhat of mysterious origins?? I read about them in Patchen's BAJA
OUTPOST of a couple years ago.......
Steve in Oro Valley |
I love this sort of dialog! Steve, what page of Baja Outpost? I will start thumbing through mine... I got the impression it was only a collection of
log entries from Marv and Aletha's Santa Ynez cabin register...
|
|
|
Steve in Oro Valley
Nomad
Posts: 105
Registered: 11-14-2002
Location: Near Tucson
Member Is Offline
|
|
David:
Patchen's Baja Outpost page 55 : long ground alignments -- Rancho Miraflores on the road to Sta Gertrudis. San Casimiro is a place south of
Miraflores.
Looking at my 1986 Topographic Atlas and my more recent Baja California Almanac ---- Notice the references to "mesa los corrales" near San Casimiro
and "paredones" near Miraflores.
the page 55 log entry by Ewing mentions long ground alignments - "judged by most to be fertility sites" Does that mean there are petroglyphs of
people doing it??? hmhh?
Does anyone know Carolina Espinoza of the Museum in BOLA?
She would probably know if INAH or others have studied this Animas mesa or other sites nearby.
Steve in Oro Valley
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64889
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Thanks Steve...
Marv Sherrill (a Nomad) makes the Baja Calendar which is sold at the museum... He knows her.
http://www.bajacalendar.com
[Edited on 1-13-2009 by David K]
|
|
|
Steve in Oro Valley
Nomad
Posts: 105
Registered: 11-14-2002
Location: Near Tucson
Member Is Offline
|
|
David:
Patchen refers to a BIRD WING rock alignment which was judged by some to possibly be a fertility site....
Fertility and vision quest activities were important to these people as I understand...
Steve in Oro Valley
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64889
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Eve Ewing (who wrote the entry) has been traveling Baja her entire life. I read an article she wrote when she was about 18 of the mule back trip from
Meling Ranch tro Cabo San Lucas!
Of related interest, Marv Patchen told me about a geoglyph by the road to El Marmol that he spotted from the air. This was after I reported what
looked like geoglyphs near Hwy. 5 between Mexicali and San Felipe.
A paper was written about the glyph... I have it... haven't seen it in person on the ground yet.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64889
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Steve in Oro Valley
David:
Patchen's Baja Outpost page 55 : long ground alignments -- Rancho Miraflores on the road to Sta Gertrudis. San Casimiro is a place south of
Miraflores.
Looking at my 1986 Topographic Atlas and my more recent Baja California Almanac ---- Notice the references to "mesa los corrales" near San Casimiro
and "paredones" near Miraflores.
the page 55 log entry by Ewing mentions long ground alignments - "judged by most to be fertility sites" Does that mean there are petroglyphs of
people doing it??? hmhh?
Steve in Oro Valley |
Perhaps we are getting a bit off topic with this new stuff, but I love it!
[Edited on 1-13-2009 by David K]
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
