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bajabound2005
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Mexico could postpone Pacific port's construction
Mexico could postpone Pacific port's construction
23 minutes ago
MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico's Transportation Secretary Luis Tellez says the construction of a huge new Pacific seaport in Baja California could be
postponed because of the world economic slowdown. The port could compete with Long Beach and Los Angeles if built.
Tellez says two U.S. banks are working with Mexico to determine if it's still possible to finance the $5 billion Punta Colonet project.
Tellez said Tuesday that the deadline for companies to register for the bidding process will likely be extended past the current Jan. 26.
The port would transform a wind-swept bay 150 miles (240 kilometers) south of the U.S. border into a booming port city, creating an estimated 80,000
jobs, drawing freighters from Asia and funneling manufactured goods north.
Friends don't let friends drink white zinfandel.
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BajaGringo
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The rumor going around is that the bidders are putting pressure on Mexico to lower the very steep bonds they are required to post. Who knows how this
is going to pan out. I sense that everybody is waiting to see what is going to happen with the US economy post GWB...
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DENNIS
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Financing for this project has to be completely transparent and verifiable. There's a lot of money in Mexico that needs to be cleaned.
On the other hand, Carlos Slim has that much in his pocket.
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Hook
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The more effects I see of "world economic slowdowns", the more I like them.
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BajaGringo
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I have heard some folks in the area (politically connected) that refer to it as "Slim's Port"
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Bajahowodd
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I'm betting that this project will be delayed a few years. There is now, and in the next few years, little sense in pumping all that money in, when
Long beach and LA ports are running on empty. Whoever invests, be it U.S. banks or other foreign bank will need a return on that investment. That
means lotsa ships and containers passing through. People are only buying what they absolutely need right now. Until there is a rebound in consumer
confidence, there will be no demand for discretionary goods.
And as for Carlos Slim, not bad for a guy who put himself through college driving a taxi.
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David K
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Something always comes up to slow development on the peninsula, north of Cabo (thank goodness).
Who here remembers Escalera Nautica? 
The beauty of Baja is timeless... change the beauty with paved or graded roads, power lines, breakwaters, unfinished projects (Puerto Escondido)...
and that changes the beauty of and time one wants to spend, in Baja.
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BajaGringo
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The fate of this project will solely be determined by economics. I think that it will take at least until 2010 before any of the big players make any
serious moves on the port.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Something always comes up to slow development on the peninsula, north of Cabo (thank goodness).
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I am sure the locals who can benefit from development with things like jobs, would agree with you---thank goodness it isn't happening. 
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The beauty of Baja is timeless... change the beauty with paved or graded roads, power lines, breakwaters, unfinished projects (Puerto Escondido)...
and that changes the beauty of and time one wants to spend, in Baja. |
Yes, we prefer Baja and many other places stay as they are---but we also know that our preference is very selfish and does not consider the well-being
of many people.
The more we live in Baja, the more we see Baja as the people, and our priorities have adjusted. We look at things as to how they might benefit the
well-being of the citizens of Baja, not the desires of the guests in the country, including us.
Diane
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BajaGringo
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I understand what you mean David that it would be nice on some idealistic level to keep things as they are. All of us feel that way at times. Heck, I
felt that way as a young kid wandering around the coastal areas of south Orange County that bare little resemblance today to their past. However if
you look at the economy of the Orange County area you know what an important role that area has played and I doubt that you would have little luck
finding support to "turn back the clock".
Living down here on the peninsula for years I have worked closely with the people who have spent their entire lives here. Like Diane, I also have come
to understand that they have the right to pursue the same economic dream that so many of us have had the opportunity to do so. It would be quite
ignorant and condescending of us not to do so.
What I want is for Baja to be able develop but in smart ways, finding the most obtainable balance of protecting the environment and history while
providing economic opportunities for the people here. It is not easy and as arm-chair quarterbacks we really are quick to second guess at times.
Ideal solutions are often difficult to obtain but if we don't at least try we stand no chance...
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fishbuck
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If that port gets developed it will be a terrible day for Baja as we know it.
I work in Long Beach and know 1st hand what it's like. Long Beach has the most polluted air in SoCal from the harbor. The highest cancer rates too.
But I really don't think it's a problem. Many other places are already improving their ports and the Panama canal is being widened right now. It will
accomdate the largest ships built and will negate the necessity of offloading cargo on the west coast. Much of the cargo is bound for the east coast
and Europe.
The canal widening will be complete before 1 shovel full of dirt is turned at Colonet.
I don't mind being selfish when it comes to Baja developement. I'd like it to stay just as it is and maybe even go backwards.
Why should I care how the people in Baja make a living. I'm quite certain they don't care how I get my money just as long as I spend some in Baja
while I'm there.
If Baja starts to become too much like SoCal then what would be the point of going there?
It needs to remain primitive, natural and special. If they loose that then they have lost me.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
Like Diane, I also have come to understand that they have the right to pursue the same economic dream that so many of us have had the opportunity to
do so. It would be quite ignorant and condescending of us not to do so.
What I want is for Baja to be able develop but in smart ways, finding the most obtainable balance of protecting the environment and history while
providing economic opportunities for the people here. It is not easy and as arm-chair quarterbacks we really are quick to second guess at times.
Ideal solutions are often difficult to obtain but if we don't at least try we stand no chance... |
Very well said. 
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
I don't mind being selfish when it comes to Baja developement. I'd like it to stay just as it is and maybe even go backwards.
Why should I care how the people in Baja make a living. I'm quite certain they don't care how I get my money just as long as I spend some in Baja
while I'm there.
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Really??? Quite an attitude, IMHO. But I guess the people there are simply there to provide you a good time. 
Diane
Diane
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David K
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In many cases, people weren't there before development.
It a twin edged sword... good and bad. People stayed in Baja for the simple life... If they wanted modern living and sevices they moved to the cities
or the mainland. The simple life is also what attracts most of Baja's original visitors who wanted to escape 'civilization', for a break.
It is so STRANGE when people come to Baja (because they like it there, the way it is) and then want to CHANGE it!!??? How does THAT make any sense... to change it to what you LEFT!?
Sure, it would be cool if Hwy. 1 wasn't built... However, getting to L.A. Bay in 8 hours wouldn't be possible... Really about 6 days or more to reach
La Paz unless you were in a race buggy, because to travel 150 miles in one day on the old Baja main road was doing good!
What I see as the biggest blight is the UNFINISHED/ abandoned projects... like Puerto Escondido and The Escalera Nautica disaster at Santa
Rosalillita... hoping it never gets stared at L.A. Bay or anywhere else.
That kind of wishful thinking by Mexican politicians HUTRTS Baja... Both tourism, and natural enviroment/ sea shore. It is hard to make pretty once
something is paved over... and left to rot.
My family and I used to camp on the shore of Puerto/ Bahia Escondido... along with many others... A great place... It was... Then it was fenced off
when the project started... The French (behind the project) pulled out, and the Mexican developer disappeared. No longer can anyone camp on the shore
of the bay, go fishing or swimming or kayaking... 
Other such projects have scarred the landscape with gradiose entrances and deserted property beyond... We see them... No completion mandates in
Mexico, I guess?
Sure the people should have what they need if they are already there... but to come to a tiny village and demand city-like services...? Stay in the
city!
There was something really magic about a town that turned off its lights at 10-11 pm and let the Baja night sky take over (Bahia de los Angeles).
Somehow people survived, the beer didn't get too warm before the morning, and life was more special when you spent time visiting with your neighbors
instead of watching Telamundo.
L.A. Bay now has 24 hour power via poles and wires from Guerrero Negro, along the highway. The main street in town, is a wreck, with whoever making
one side a meter lower than the other, requiring multiple U turns and excess driving just to go from business to business... Progress? That's
progress??
Okay, I'm ranting... life goes on!
Thanks for your support!
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BajaGringo
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I also find it kind of funny how so many in this forum want for the Mexicans to stay on the south side of the border but discourage the development of
jobs that would keep them here.
Kind of a Catch-22 I guess...
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Bajahowodd
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Fishbuck-
How would you feel if a bunch of foreigners decided that you shouldn't have the opportunity to make a decent living, just so they can enjoy
themselves. Thorny issue.
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fishbuck
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
I don't mind being selfish when it comes to Baja developement. I'd like it to stay just as it is and maybe even go backwards.
Why should I care how the people in Baja make a living. I'm quite certain they don't care how I get my money just as long as I spend some in Baja
while I'm there.
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Really??? Quite an attitude, IMHO. But I guess the people there are simply there to provide you a good time.
Diane
Diane |
Well, yes I do like to have a good time. And I will usually spend money to get it. And I guess I hope it benefits the locals when I spend some money.
But that is really their business.
Mine is having a good time.
If the locals have something I want I will spend money on it if it is a fair price. If they don't, my money stays in my pocket and I move along to the
next little town to see if they have anything I want or need.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Fishbuck-
How would you feel if a bunch of foreigners decided that you shouldn't have the opportunity to make a decent living, just so they can enjoy
themselves. Thorny issue. |
Incase you haven't been noticing it happens everyday.
But to be honest I don't really care what foreigners think.
I mind my own business and do the best I can.
Life is too short to carry all the worries of the world around.
I will be 50 in just a few months. I figure I have about 20 more really good years. Maybe 30.
I still need to build my beach house and catch more fish. Oh ya, I'm still looking for a beautiful lady to share it with too.
So I don't really have time to play God on issues of developement and opportunity for people because it's a full time job just trying to live my own
life.
But if you have all that free time to ponder about life please feel free to do so.
I'll be busy earning a buck so I can spend it having a good time in Baja.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Fishbuck-
How would you feel if a bunch of foreigners decided that you shouldn't have the opportunity to make a decent living, just so they can enjoy
themselves. Thorny issue. |
That's being a bit tough on the Fish. We all know the attraction of Baja and it isn't progress. It's a quest to find what Krutch was refering to
when he coined the phrase, "The land where time stood still"...or something like that. Who in their right mind would rather see a progressive,
smelly freight port than a pristine, unadulterated harbor, clean and free of marks left by the hand of man? Not me.
I know progress is inevitible but it isn't my environment of choice.
r
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DianaT
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Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
It a twin edged sword... good and bad. People stayed in Baja for the simple life... If they wanted modern living and sevices they moved to the cities
or the mainland. The simple life is also what attracts most of Baja's original visitors who wanted to escape 'civilization', for a break.
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You know this? How do you know this? People all have that type of mobility? The families in Bahia Asuncion came from other parts of Baja, but they
were not seeking "the simple life" They were seeking a way to make a living and fishing is not a "simple life'"
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
It is so STRANGE when people come to Baja (because they like it there, the way it is) and then want to CHANGE it!!??? How does THAT make any sense... to change it to what you LEFT!?
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Who wants to make the changes? It is not us who are happy that the road to Bahia Asuncion is being paved, or that a new cell tower and high speed
internet came to town. Nor are we thrilled with the new hotel and the development. But, many, many of the locals are happy---makes their lives
eaiser and they hope to economically benefit from the progress. THAT IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT---WHAT THEY WANT AND WHAT BENEFITS THEM---NOT YOU NOR US.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Sure the people should have what they need if they are already there... but to come to a tiny village and demand city-like services...? Stay in the
city!
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Some of those people have been in those villages all of their lives----they didn't come to the tiny village---oh, or did you mean the gringos? Again,
the gringos I know in the smaller villages are not the ones looking for change.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
There was something really magic about a town that turned off its lights at 10-11 pm and let the Baja night sky take over (Bahia de los Angeles).
Somehow people survived, the beer didn't get too warm before the morning, and life was more special when you spent time visiting with your neighbors
instead of watching Telamundo.
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Magic for whom? YOU? Yes, there are many places like San Cristobal in Southern Mexico that we loved when the electricity was turned off at night,
and there were no things like internet. But the last time we were there, some business owners told us how happy they were with the progress.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Okay, I'm ranting... life goes on!
Thanks for your support! |
Baja is for the Mexican people and needs to develop for the benefit of Mexico and the Mexican people, not just as a nice place for Gringos to escape.
Ugly mistakes have been made, but it is THEIR country for THEIR benefit----not yours.
Yes, I know some locals who don't want change, but a lot are really looking forward to change. IT IS THEIR DEBATE, THEIR CHOICE.
Gees, you live in Vista? So much of the north county area used to be pristine, beautiful, and undeveloped. It was a beautiful drive from LA to the
rather small city of San Diego.
Ok, I am done with this because you not only will never understand because it is always all about you, but you will have the last word, or last whine,
whatever it may be.
Diane
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