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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Low voltage problems
Seems that there is a lot of fluctuation in the power supply voltage from CFE Electric. We have toasted the microwave, blew up two surge protectors
as well, and fried something in my 2 volt power supply that I use or VHF radio. Our neighbor had the same problem with his microwave, TV,
Refrigerator, and oven controls. I think (in my very limited electrical knowledge) that we get a low voltage supply and then the cycles increases to
make up for the problem and then the problems happen. I guess I can buy extra surge protectors , and just replace them when the power fluctuates but
figured that someone out there in Nomad Land will know what to do with this.
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
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Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Perhaps your surge protectors are not high capacity protectors. Have you checked the market for what ranges are available? In Nopolo we fought this
all the time for eight years. didn't use any protectors except on the electronic stuff. No problems. They weren't anything special. Just the usual
off the shelf type at Radio Shack.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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There is something in the RV industry that may be the answer. Don,t remember what it is called....maybe voltage step op transformer? Many places have
them including Camp world, though I don't recommend them as I have been stuck with a lot of junk there. I will try to find a link.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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The RV ones are called autoformers. They have internal voltage transformers for high and low situations. Might be adaptable. The big names in 50 amp
ones are Frank's, Hughes and RV Electrical. Provide an 8-16 % boost in low voltage, then cut out completely below a specific threshold.
Low voltage is slow death for appliances.
BTW, I have heard that surge protectors often cant work fast enough if you experience a lightning strike on your premises or even one into the grid
nearby. Best to unplug things and ride it out.
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Jack Swords
Super Nomad
Posts: 1095
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Nipomo, CA/La Paz, BCS
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Is it LOW voltage? Have you measured it? In La Paz we have experienced high voltage consistently (137 - 140 AC voltage). We were told it is high to
make up for poor wiring and connection resistance and therefore deliver a nominal voltage to outlying areas. High, low, severe fluxuations are all
not kind to electronic devices. Is the change constant, at times of high usage, or simply random?
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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Jack, ours is more often high than not over here. We are only about 15-20miles from the major generating station in the area. Probably there is one in
La Paz, too. Pescador is possibly near the end of the line, literally, and his voltage may suffer.
I have always heard low voltage is worse on appliances than high voltage.
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LarryK
Junior Nomad
Posts: 99
Registered: 8-26-2003
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You have a bad ground connection between your service pole to the transformer. A bad or partial ground will cause fluxation of voltage across
120-volt appliances. You can check this by checking with a voltmeter with no load on a socket. Put a heavy load on the circuit, with the voltmeter
you will find the voltage very low or very high. With no ground or a partial ground the voltage will fluctuate. You say your neighbor has the same
problem, that puts it before your service entrance.
With out the ground, you will have 240v trying to run the 120v item
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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We had a low voltage problem a while back. Too low to run the microwave, then a surge fried a surge protector, which gave its life to save my
computer.
The problem was our connection to the powerline. The wires are only twisted together and taped, and they got loose in the wind. Re-wrapped and
everything worked fine, for now.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Seems that there is a lot of fluctuation in the power supply voltage from CFE Electric. We have toasted the microwave, blew up two surge protectors
as well, and fried something in my 2 volt power supply that I use or VHF radio. Our neighbor had the same problem with his microwave, TV,
Refrigerator, and oven controls. I think (in my very limited electrical knowledge) that we get a low voltage supply and then the cycles increases to
make up for the problem and then the problems happen. I guess I can buy extra surge protectors , and just replace them when the power fluctuates but
figured that someone out there in Nomad Land will know what to do with this. |
I run my electronics and fridge at the house through UPS Battery Back-up Boxes. Ours has a digital readout that shows current voltage. We have LOW
voltage problems here. As I type it is 111 volts. The UPS adds power to bringit up to 120 or reduces the power if incoming is too high (never here).
We had a bad "Brown Out" once that caused damage, called CFE who verified the problem- and CFE even offerred to pay for everything- including spoiled
food. We were very pleasantly surprised by how accomodating they were.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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what whoosh uses is what you need
they run about $100 each
these things are sold at best buy
you do have to shut off the machine if the voltage drops though
your ONLY solution is to buy your own transformer
$10k will do it
lots of homeowners in baja buy their own if they want better electrical service
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Jack Swords
Is it LOW voltage? Have you measured it? In La Paz we have experienced high voltage consistently (137 - 140 AC voltage). We were told it is high to
make up for poor wiring and connection resistance and therefore deliver a nominal voltage to outlying areas. High, low, severe fluxuations are all
not kind to electronic devices. Is the change constant, at times of high usage, or simply random? |
Now I am going to get a scientific approach to the whole issue. I have not really used a voltage meter, but have observed the lights which go from
bright to dim and then back again. Sometimes they stay dim for quite a bit of time and then come on stronger than normal. So good point, I am going
to plug in one of those voltage meters and start watching it.
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BajaNuts
Super Nomad
Posts: 1085
Registered: 5-11-2008
Location: eastern WA, the DRY side
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Mood: no worry, no hurry....it's all good!
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"The problem was our connection to the powerline. The wires are only twisted together and taped, and they got loose in the wind. Re-wrapped and
everything worked fine, for now. "
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your main power lines are twisted and taped?!?!?!?!??!
Get a CRIMP!!!!!!!!!
it will solve 63.8% of your power problems-
ps- don't do this yourself, get an electrical lineman to re-do your main power connections.
It should be crimped or "curnied" (technical term meaning "big crimp with a bracket and screws")---------
omg----------- twisted and taped...........................THAT is a CRIME>>>>>>>>>>>
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estebanis
Nomad
Posts: 279
Registered: 11-11-2002
Location: Stuck North of the Border. They won\'t pay me
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Kearny Nuts
Are the way to go for sure. I have a box of them in my service truck. Better not try this your self unless you want a new hairdoo!
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BajaNuts
Super Nomad
Posts: 1085
Registered: 5-11-2008
Location: eastern WA, the DRY side
Member Is Offline
Mood: no worry, no hurry....it's all good!
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hey estebanis from "smell-a"
are you a sparky?
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estebanis
Nomad
Posts: 279
Registered: 11-11-2002
Location: Stuck North of the Border. They won\'t pay me
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I work for the Electric Utility as a Tech on the Smart Grid. I used to be a Marine Electronics Tech and had a bussiness in Cabo for 5 years during the
'80's.
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BajaNuts
Super Nomad
Posts: 1085
Registered: 5-11-2008
Location: eastern WA, the DRY side
Member Is Offline
Mood: no worry, no hurry....it's all good!
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right on-estebanis-
thanks for the proper terms. Hubby is an IBEW brother of 20+ years and he knows all the parts, pieces and stuff. I'm a rezzy jw..... I know that
twisting and taping is not a good thing outside a bedroom.............
I'll send you a u2u,
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ElFaro
Nomad
Posts: 231
Registered: 9-16-2007
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CFE Baja Utilities - Voltage Issues Part 1
Since I have been in the electric utility business for 35 years specifically in the high voltage transmission grid area and was acquainted with CFE
I'd like to provide you all with some insights regarding what might be going on with your voltage and "appliance" issues.
The problems you are experiencing are what we regard as "power quality" issues in the utility industry. We here in the US generally receive high
quality power into our homes, businesses, and farms. Most of the time we don't even give it a thought of how "clean" electric power comes into our
homes. But go to a third world country like Mexico and your "paradigm" gets a real jolt.
For starters CFE services what I would describe as "rough" or "course" power to cities, towns, and villages in Baja. CFE provides minimal "voltage
control" mainly at the generating plant and at the step-down distribution transformer. There is minimal to no automatic voltage regulation in the
distribution system (12kV and below) out in the field as the load rises and falls during the day. From measurements I have taken the voltage is high
at night (commercial / industrial load off) and begins to drop in the morning as factories and shops open up for the day. It levels off for the
duration of the day and rises again as workers are headed home and motors / pumps are shut down. The voltage is also high on Sundays as that is a
day off for workers (comml/Indust load off).
At an orphanage in Tecate I measured the 220 volt service between 205 - 250 volts on any given day! So CFE's service to you is a voltage range of
plus/minus 30 volts of nominal. Contrast that to So. Calif utilities where the distribution voltage is tightly controlled within plus/minus 0.5
volts of nominal regardless of the load coming on in your neighborhood. I have known loads of 100-200 megawatts to switch on and off and have no
effect on nearby neighborhoods (1 megawatt = 1 million watts). If you live near a large load in Baja such as a welding shop, electric fired ovens, or
large AG pumps you may experience voltage fluctuations from those loads coming on and off. Baja businesses solve this problem by purchasing voltage
regulating transformers installed on-site. These transformers will put out a constant voltage on the low side regardless of the low side load or the
high side voltage. Their cost is determined by how many phase (1 or 3 phase) and capacity in kVA (kilo-Volt Amperes). For most of you living in Baja
your stuck with the voltage range. CFE will not install voltage regulating transformers out on poles in neighborhoods where the voltage for common
appliances is non-critical.
Another contributing factor to high voltages is a phenomenon called "line charging".
It's like when you have a water pipe that goes down a hill and at the top the pressure is 50 psi and at the bottom of the hill the pressure builds to
100 psi until you open the valve on the end and the pressure drops to 50 psi.
In Baja when you have long high voltage lines (115 kilo-volt) that have a small load at the end you will get very high voltages at the end of the
line. This is because the line through inductance due to AC electricity interacts with the earth and gathers additional charging currents boosting
the voltage at the end of the line. As an example the voltage in San Felipe is very hard to keep down because a 115kV line
crosses the peninsula from Rosarito to feed San Felipe and a rock crushing pit to the north were the voltage ends up at 145kV. What is that...about
150-200 miles? A long way to feed such a tiny load but deemed necessary back in the 1960's.
Hope this helps...
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ElFaro
Nomad
Posts: 231
Registered: 9-16-2007
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CFE Utilities - Lights Dimming/Glowing - Part 2
Now...why do your lights dim and glow bright? It may be due to what is known in the utility industry as "frequency oscillations".
Prior to 1985 CFE had a big problem with this in their northern Baja transmission system. The northern system was an "electrical island" meaning it
was not connected to any neighboring utility transmission grid on its northern, southern, or eastern flanks. This system was and still is connected
between the coast and inland subsystems by 230 kilo-Volt lines that run from Mexicali to TiJuana / Rosarito...about 100 miles. When a generator trips
off-line, a line faults, or a circuit breaker trips electrical inertia shock waves travel through the transmission grid back and forth similar to a
rock thrown into a pool. As the waves travel back and forth they dampen out but they may not completely go away. The only way for them to completely
dampen out is if the generators are equipped with something called "power system stabilizers (PSS)". As the waves hit the generators they cause the
gens to move off frequency and the gens will return the wave back to the grid. If the gens are equipped with PSS they will absorb the shock waves and
return nothing to the grid. CFE did not have PSS on their generators because they were too small or of the wrong type. The frequency oscillations
would take days to dampen out because the waves would travel between the coast and the inland subsystems. Another way to dampen out the waves is to
connect to a big utility grid...which is what CFE did in 1985 when they connected to the "Colossus in the North"...namely the So. Calif utility grid
via San Diego Gas & Electric (SDGE). When they connected to SDGE these shock waves were absorbed by the northern grid and the light dimming and
brightness disappeared.
Which brings me back to those of you who live in Southen Baja. The southern Baja electric system consists of 2 or 3 "electrical Islands" with loads
separated by long lines and small generators. I would bet there are oscillations on these electrical island systems that are not dampening out and
thus you are seeing lights dim and glow bright due to frequency oscillations.
Hope this helps...
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Jim, I googled "home surge protectors" lots of stuff there too.
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
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El Faro: thanks - what is the price range for these transformers? - $10,000 like Bob said? BOLA recently got electrical service from GN, some 120
miles. The service ends about 2 miles south of town at a group of 20 homes, no large industry/shops prior to it. Does this mean they are faced with
the 'down-hill' problem you've described? I don't recall seeing any transformers other than in town but I will look next time. Is it possible for
them to buy a single transformer prior to the feed to their homes? Since they all had fairly large solar systems, why not use their battery
banks/inverters as the 'transformer'? In other words, simply run their homes off the battery bank like before and use the city power to keep the
batteries charged?
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