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David K
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MISSIONS THAT WERE MOVED
In many cases, there were more than one location for many of the missions.
A site may have been picked because it was close to the Indian population centers, but often needed to be relocated because the source of water wasn't
enough for the European farming system imposed by the padres on the natives.
During the Jesuit period, the missions that were moved (more than a mile), or closed from the original founding location are:
SAN JAVIER (mission moved from Rancho Viejo site)
LIGUI (mission closed and everyone was relocated to the new mission of Los Dolores)
SAN JOSE COMONDU (mission moved from Comondu Viejo site, many miles away)
Comodu Viejo (1708-1737)
New site was built into the largest church in all California, torn down in the 1920's to build a school!
A side chapel is all that was spared:
LA PURISIMA (mission moved several miles from Purisima Vieja site)
LA PAZ (mission moved to Todos Santos area near where Mision Santa Rosa de las Palmas was established)
LOS DOLORES (mission moved from near the coast many miles inland to the La Pasion visita site. Some authors have listed La Pasion as a seperate
mission.)
Early site: (photo from distant ridge)
Final site at La Pasion:
SANTIAGO (Mission activity began near Los Barriles, moved far inland to Real de Santa Ana, then as a new mission a couple miles from today's Santiago,
then into today's Santiago. Some historians say it made one more move to Caduaño.)
SAN JOSE DEL CABO (First site at 'San Jose Viejo' had poor soil and the mission was moved to the present location of the town. A modern church is now
on the site.)
CALAMAJUE/ SANTA MARIA (Began at Calamajue, moved many miles north because of bad water and renamed Santa Maria de los Angeles)
Calamajue:
Santa Maria:
=================================================
Dominican missions that required moving to new locations after buildings were erected:
ROSARIO (moved a couple miles to edge of river after spring on hillside dried up).
First site:
Final site:
SAN MIGUEL (moved 7 miles to site in La Mision after one year)
SANTO TOMAS (moved because of mosquitos about 4 miles)
First site:
Final site:
SAN PEDRO MARTIR (moved from 8,000' at La Grulla to 5,000' because of cold conditions)
Some historians consider the missions of Descanso and Guadalupe just new locations for Mision San Miguel. Because there was no seperate funding, they
aren't really seperate missions.
[Edited on 2-23-2009 by David K]
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fishbuck
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And just when we thought the information about the old dead rocks couldn't be anymore useless!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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Just kidding. It could be useful. Somehow. To somebody, somewhere, someday.
Couldn't it?
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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The pictures are nice.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Barry A.
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For History buffs like me it's great!!! Thanks, David.
Well done.
Barry
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fishbuck
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
For History buffs like me it's great!!! Thanks, David.
Well done.
Barry |
See! I know there would be atleast one person interested in piles of rocks way out in the middle of no where.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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David K
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Thanks Guys...
Fishbuck, those photos and a lot more have been (and still are) at http://vivabaja.com/bajamissions (link on my home page as well: 'The Spanish Missions of Baja California'
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fishbuck
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I hope you know I'm teasing. My first Baja trip was a 4x4 trip through Orange Coast College and we went to a lot of the missions.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Barry A.
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It's the "middle of nowhere" that is the main draw------the "piles of rock" are just the excuse to actually go there.
It's ALL good!!!
BArry
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Diver
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
My first Baja trip was a 4x4 trip through Orange Coast College and we went to a lot of the missions. |
Maybe you could return the souvenir stones and bricks you took home ? 
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fishbuck
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
My first Baja trip was a 4x4 trip through Orange Coast College and we went to a lot of the missions. |
Maybe you could return the souvenir stones and bricks you took home ? |
I didn't know they were like historical and stuff. David K wasn't there to tell me. 
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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David K
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Ah guys... I know it is weird to some... but I do love to see and be at the places where 200-300 years ago the padres and the Indians built so much
with rock, cut stone and adobe... and the hundreds of miles of road through the desert and mountains.
Before the mission period, there was the rock art made by people who were long gone when the Spanish arrived... After the mission period was the
miners time in Baja seeking gold, silver and other metals...
All three types of Baja history is interesting to me!
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Mexitron
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DK--Wonder why they couldn't figure out that La Grulla was too cold before they built there... ...I don't recall now--is the location for the
higher mission known, specifically?
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Barry A.
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I spent several days camping at La Grulla in 1954 and we walked and rode horses all over that meadow-------never saw any "ruins" that I can remember.
(which, or course, means nothing)
Barry
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DanO
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I thought I read somewhere that Santo Tomas was moved twice, the initial location being out on the coast, which didn't work out because the local
indians were hostile and the padres had trouble keeping their heads attached. Am I wrong about that?
Update: No, I'm not wrong. Wikipedia says there were indeed three different locations, but that the first location is unclear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misi%C3%B3n_Santo_Tom%C3%A1s_de...
[Edited on 2-24-2009 by DanO]
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DanO
I thought I read somewhere that Santo Tomas was moved twice, the initial location being out on the coast, which didn't work out because the local
indians were hostile and the padres had trouble keeping their heads attached. Am I wrong about that?
Update: No, I'm not wrong. Wikipedia says there were indeed three different locations, but that the first location is unclear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misi%C3%B3n_Santo_Tom%C3%A1s_de...
[Edited on 2-24-2009 by DanO] |
Wikimapia's source from some of the info is Ed Vernon, the author of a great (the best) book on the missions... http://www.bajacaliforniamissions.com/
However, there is disagreement between Ed and one of his sources of information... our own Nomad 'academicanarchist' (Dr. Robert Jackson).
While it is certain the first mission location is off the road to La Bocana, by the oak tree camp area.... and the final site is next to Hwy 1 and the
El Palomar campground... the question is about a new mission building constructed on the north side of the canyon, near the 'first site'... Meigs
sketched in in 1926 and labeled it the mission church and the 'first site'.
It was built perhaps in 1794 per one document, and then destroyed by road crews grading the road to La Bocana, in recent history.
The problem Dr. Jackson has with Ed calling it a 'second site', is that the church is only one part of a 'mission'... and only because the church was
relocated (less than a mile away)... doesn't mean the entire 'mission' was moved. In fact, the records show only one move was authorized by Dominican
leaders.
So, while I have great respect for Ed... I tend to agree with Robert on this mission having only two unique mission sites. Ed's belief came from the
writings and sketches of Peveril Meigs that didn't identify a site, on the south side of the creek... only the adobe that was later destroyed by road
crews on the north side.... what Ed believes to be a 'second site'.
Naturally, none are alive to know this first hand, so we history buffs have to come to some concussions based on the facts available and observations.
Baja Angel and I visited both sites in 2005:
First site, founded in 1791
The first location of the Santo Tomas mission is 3.9 miles from Hwy. 1, just 1/4 mile off the Puerto Santo Tomas/ La Bocana graded road, at 31 34.18,
116 28.80 (NAD27).
In 1799, the mission was moved to its final location (where the town grew from):
Once a large mission complex, only a few low adobe walls remain 156 years after it was abandoned. Located just east of the highway and north of the El
Palomar campground in Santo Tomas at 31 33.50, 116 24.77 (NAD27).
[Edited on 2-10-2015 by David K]
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Jack Swords
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Mexitron: here is a link that provides more information on the La Grulla site. Julia is the INAH person for northern Baja. Want to hike
up there?
www.pcas.org/Vol33N3/333Fostr.pdf
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David K
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Great link Jack... Max Kurillo has a lot of details too.
Do you have a good link to the Santo Tomas sites... beyond or to enforce what I wrote above?
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Jack Swords
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According to INAH, there was only one site of Mission San Tomás. They cite Doctor M. Mathes about the second site at the entrance to town as serving
as a bodega for the mission, not as a mission. Then again, their literature includes planos (drawings) of foundation plans and refers to "primera
misión de Santo Tomás" for one drawing, and "Santo Tomás de Aquino" for the second. Why the "first" site and implying a second is a mystery. Tomás
Robertson (who lived in the Ensenada area) states that in 1794 the mission was moved to its present site where you enter the puebla of San Tomás. He
even says Engelhardt gave dimensions of the church and rooms. Two padres were murdered there in 1803. Ed (Vernon) cites conflicting reports on this
mission (s) as well and so it apparently remains as one of the many enigmas in Baja.
Spent one day exploring San Hilario north of La Paz. It was cited as a "garden" of the mission La Paz by G & G. Lots of rancheros knew its
history, but not a single artifact was able to be found. Nice watered area, but not even a wall remains.
La Huerta, south of La Paz has historical significance and a very interesting graveyard. Needs more time and info. Can't get much information from
discussions with the locals. I'll try to post some photos of mission-era remains.
Want to hike into La Grulla and photograph that first site of San Pedro Martir?
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David K
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Posts: 64848
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Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Jack Swords
According to INAH, there was only one site of Mission San Tomás. They cite Doctor M. Mathes about the second site at the entrance to town as serving
as a bodega for the mission, not as a mission. Then again, their literature includes planos (drawings) of foundation plans and refers to "primera
misión de Santo Tomás" for one drawing, and "Santo Tomás de Aquino" for the second. Why the "first" site and implying a second is a mystery. Tomás
Robertson (who lived in the Ensenada area) states that in 1794 the mission was moved to its present site where you enter the puebla of San Tomás. He
even says Engelhardt gave dimensions of the church and rooms. Two padres were murdered there in 1803. Ed (Vernon) cites conflicting reports on this
mission (s) as well and so it apparently remains as one of the many enigmas in Baja.
Spent one day exploring San Hilario north of La Paz. It was cited as a "garden" of the mission La Paz by G & G. Lots of rancheros knew its
history, but not a single artifact was able to be found. Nice watered area, but not even a wall remains.
La Huerta, south of La Paz has historical significance and a very interesting graveyard. Needs more time and info. Can't get much information from
discussions with the locals. I'll try to post some photos of mission-era remains.
Want to hike into La Grulla and photograph that first site of San Pedro Martir? |
INAH may mean well... but their facts are off and information is real shallow.
When ever you have new photos of sites, I will add them to your web page: http://vivabaja.com/swords
The first San Pedro Martir mission site at La Grulla (known as Casilepe) would be interesting to see... As I understand, they found the dozens of
square base stones upon which a wooden structure was built?
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