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Woooosh
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Agent Orange makes a reprise on the border?
I'm sure they have much better herbicides these days without the toxic effects on people or the environment....
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6335446.html
The U.S. Border Patrol plans to poison the plant life along a 1.1-mile stretch of the Rio Grande riverbank as soon as Wednesday to get rid of the
hiding places used by smugglers, robbers and illegal immigrants.
If successful, the $2.1 million pilot project could later be duplicated along as many as 130 miles of river in the patrol’s Laredo Sector, as well as
other parts of the U.S.-Mexico border.
Although Border Patrol and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency officials say the chemical is safe for animals, detractors say the experiment is
reminiscent of the Vietnam War-era Agent Orange chemical program and raises questions about long-term effects.
“We don’t believe that is even moral,” said Jay Johnson-Castro Sr., executive director of the Rio Grande International Study Center, located at Laredo
Community College, adjacent to the planned test area.
“It is unprecedented that they’d do it in a populated area,” he said of spraying the edge of the Rio Grande as it weaves between the cities of Laredo
and Nuevo Laredo, Mexico.
Border Patrol agent Roque Sarinana said the pilot project aims to find the most efficient way to keep agents safer and better protect the nation’s
border. “We are trying to improve our mobility and visibility up and down the river,” Sarinana said.
Criminals have grown adept at using the dense foliage to elude capture, he said.
“They can come over almost undetected,” he said.
Should the Border Patrol project prove efficient, cane removal could become part of its arsenal of tools that have been used along various parts of
the U.S.-Mexico border, including walls, fencing and look-out towers.
Members of the Laredo City Council have raised concerns about the spraying program and called on Mexico President Felipe Calderon to intervene.
Mexican officials are raising concerns the herbicide could threaten the water supply for Nuevo Laredo.
A U.S. government outline of the project indicates the Border Patrol is going to test three methods to rid the 1.1-mile bank of river of carrizo cane,
which has thick stalks that form tight, isolated trails that can be dark and all but invisible from higher up on the bank.
One method calls for the cane to be cut by hand and the stumps painted with the herbicide, Imazapyr.
Another involves using mechanical equipment to dig the cane out by the roots. It is unclear if herbicides would be necessary in this scenario.
The third and most controversial removal method calls for helicopters spraying Imazapyr directly on the cane — repeatedly — until all plant life in
the area is poisoned.
The Border Patrol said that after using the herbicide, it plans to make the river’s edges green again by planting native plants.
Johnson-Castro said he has no issue with removing the cane, a non-native plant brought by the Spaniards centuries ago. The challenge, he said, is how
it is done.
“We are saying it is one hell of a big deal,” he said.
Laredo Mayor Raul Salinas said he believes federal officials when they say testing shows the chemical is not dangerous, but that he also realizes
opponents of the project have concerns to evaluate.
“It is a complicated situation because we have to think about protecting our border,” said Salinas, a retired FBI agent. “But let’s do it in a
sensible, reasonable way to make sure humans won’t be harmed, nor the vegetation, nor the animals, nor the environment.”
[Edited on 3-24-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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toneart
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This idea is unthinkable, except for the idiot mindset that thinks (?) that way.
 Maybe Lou Dodds would like it. 
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
This idea is unthinkable, except for the idiot mindset that thinks (?) that way.
Maybe Lou Dodds would like it. |
I think you have your marooons confused- Sen Chris Dodd-D of CT (whose wife once served on the board of an AIG company and he snuck the AIG bonuses
into law) and Lou Dobbs who is trying to be the anti-Rush on CNN. Easy mistake to make IMHO.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
This idea is unthinkable, except for the idiot mindset that thinks (?) that way.
Maybe Lou Dodds would like it. |
Wasn't it just a few years ago in California that Mexican workers out picking produce in the fields were sprayed routinely with pesticides from crop
duster aircraft?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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woody with a view
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whatever happened to napalm? i've heard it smells particularly pleasant......
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toneart
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Yes, it is easy getting my marooons confused. There are too many on my score card. The Dodds reference was because of his obsession with illegal
immigration. I have said for years on this board that "market conditions" will eventually take care of the illegal immigrant situation. When the jobs
dry up, they will repatriate to their respective countries. That is now happening.
And yes, Mexican workers were dusted with pesticides in California, much to the detriment of their health. Cesaer Chavez mercively stepped in with his
huelgas. That wasn't the only thing the UFW was protesting, but that was a biggie.
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toneart
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I realize that this topic is around drug smuggling, but the immigration issue was brought up. To some it is one and the same.
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nancyinpdx
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I think the U.S. is one of the most immoral countries... I hope they do not get away with this. The ones wanting to use it should be forced to
permanently relocate with their families to the areas it would be used, so they can prove how 'safe' they believe it is.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by nancyinpdx
I think the U.S. is one of the most immoral countries... I hope they do not get away with this. The ones wanting to use it should be forced to
permanently relocate with their families to the areas it would be used, so they can prove how 'safe' they believe it is. |
You're talking about alcohol right?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Bajahowodd
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I think that what we are currently doing on the Mexican Border is folly. With the exception of the Israeli fencing off of Gaza, there is really no
place in the world that has become as fortified as ours with Mexico. Maybe we should consider statehood for Mexico. After all, much of the U.S.
Southwest was once part of Mexico. After all, much of that same area has a rich historic cultural connection. Of course, I'm being looney. Americans
would never consider the annexation of Mexico, and the overwhelming, if somewhat misplaced national pride of Mexicans would be equally against such an
idea. That being said, When the Gadsden Purchase was made in the 19th century, land that basically allowed for the straight border from New Mexico to
San Diego, Mexico offered to throw in Baja, and the U.S. declined the offer.
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
whatever happened to napalm? i've heard it smells particularly pleasant...... |
Only in the Morning 
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | | Mexico offered to throw in Baja, and the U.S. declined the offer. |
I think it still would.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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nancyinpdx
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by nancyinpdx
I think the U.S. is one of the most immoral countries... I hope they do not get away with this. The ones wanting to use it should be forced to
permanently relocate with their families to the areas it would be used, so they can prove how 'safe' they believe it is. |
You're talking about alcohol right? |
but of course... it could be made from fermented agent orange contaminated plants... yum!
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oldlady
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The harmful ingredients in Agent Orange are dioxins. Evidently this stuff doesn't have those. It's been commonly used in the US for over 20 years,
in populated areas. It is a herbicide and not a pesticide.
While I wouldn't want to drink a lot of the stuff, there is also no evidence that it is a carcinogen. Anyone hiding in the canes where the spray may
itch a lot.
If nothing else, the professional environmentalists have come a long way as watchdogs on these sorts of things, in 20 years, if there were significant
problems you'd like to believe they would have rung the alarm bells by now.
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | | Mexico offered to throw in Baja, and the U.S. declined the offer. |
I think it still would. |
Damm, there go my dreams of a monorail from Las Vegas to Cabo San Lucas with a stop
at Disneyland , of course. 
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k-rico
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"The third and most controversial removal method calls for helicopters spraying Imazapyr directly on the cane — repeatedly — until all plant life in
the area is poisoned."
Imazapyr - Identification, toxicity, use, water pollution potential, ecological toxicity and regulatory information
toxic to almost every plant
[Edited on 3-25-2009 by k-rico]
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motoged
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I'm A Zapper
Instead of spraying I'm A Zapper all over the place, why don't they just pave a mile-long strip along the entire border and turn it into a parking
lot, set up more big box stores selling cheap plastic crap and let the American dream weave its web?...light:
Don't believe everything you think....
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tigerdog
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YIKES!
Great links, k-rico, thanks. That second one is alarming, especially in how it gets into the ground water. Obviously, from reading those papers, not
enough research has been done on this.
I'm old enough to remember how our government denied for years that Agent Orange was dangerous, and what a fight it was to force an admission that it
might have harmed our troops in Vietnam. I also remember how long DDT was used in the USA and what a fight it took to get an admission that it was bad
for us in spite of reams of evidence that it was dangerous. There are people who STILL think it was a mistake to ban DDT.
So, the fact that "in 20 years, if there were significant problems you'd like to believe they would have rung the alarm bells by now", as
old lady says, doesn't give me much confidence. I'm afraid you have more faith in our government than I do, old lady.
I seriously recommend everyone read the info in that second link you posted (http://www.akaction.org/PDFs/Imazapyr_facts.pdf ). The fact that they're fixin' to spray that stuff along a major body of water (even though that
poor river is already majorly polluted) should give us all pause. 
\"You know Hobbes, sometimes even my lucky rocket-ship underpants don\'t help.\" - Calvin, from Calvin and Hobbes
Visit me at Rocky Point Tides
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oldlady
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I have little to no faith in our government. My point was that this is not another version of the dioxin laden Agent Orange. However, if there is
something significantly wrong with this stuff, where have all the environmental activists been on the issue for the last 20 years that it has been
commonly used?
Several of you know a lot more about enviornmental chemistry than I do. Doesn't it strike you as peculiar that only now, when it is going to be used
to facilitate the possible reduction of border violations, we are suddenly aware of its existence?
[Edited on 3-25-2009 by oldlady]
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | | Mexico offered to throw in Baja, and the U.S. declined the offer. |
I think it still would. |
Damm, there go my dreams of a monorail from Las Vegas to Cabo San Lucas with a stop
at Disneyland , of course. |
The Vegas to LA rail connection is desperatley needed. No "It's a small third world" mexican attraction with mariachis though.
[Edited on 3-25-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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