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Woooosh
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Military Torture of Civilians Jeopardizes Meridia Initiative funding
Editorial Page: San Diego Union Tribune 07/20/09
Mexico must uphold human rights commitments
As this page has stressed many times before, the United States and Mexico are full partners in the bloody war against Mexican drug cartels. That's
only right. Americans buy most of the drugs exported from Mexico, and they supply most of the guns imported into Mexico by drug traffickers.
Half of this partnership is that the United States has pledged under the Mérida Initiative to provide $1.4 billion to Mexico, Central American and
Caribbean nations to help authorities combat the cartels. But the other half of the deal is that Mexico has promised, consistent with the conditions
of the Mérida agreement, to make progress on human rights by prosecuting suspected human rights offenders, prohibiting the use in criminal trials of
testimony obtained through torture and consulting often with independent human rights groups.
Now it looks like Mexico isn't holding up its part of the bargain, and that puts in jeopardy the 15 percent of the Mérida money that cannot be
released until the U.S. secretary of state confirms that Mexico has made progress on human rights. There are t disturbing allegations, some of which
were detailed recently in The Washington Post, that the Mexican army has carried out forced disappearances, acts of torture, looting of villages and
illegal raids in pursuit f of drug traffickers.
We don't know whether the accusations are true, but it's the job of the Mexican government to find out. And if military officers committed these
crimes, they must be punished. A lot is riding on the integrity of the anti-drug effort, and it can't be compromised, either by the United States or
Mexico. U.S. officials have to deliver funding as promised, but Mexican authorities have to meet their obligations as well.
Of course, fighting drug dealers is a messy business. It's understandable that some members of the Mexican military might be feeling the pressure of
the otherwise noble campaign in which they're involved. In fighting back against the Mexican government, drug cartels have killed more than 70
soldiers. Some of the casualties were tortured, and their bodies mutilated. It's natural that some of their comrades might want vengeance. But it's
not acceptable.
Mexican of ficials acknowledge that some abuses have occurred in the fight against trafJohn Overmyer fickers but insist that the cases are isolated.
Whether that's true or not isn't the point. The goal, for Mexico, should be that there be no abuse at all. That may not be possible but that's he
ideal for which our neighbor should strive. And that's what we should insist upon in order for this partnership to move forward. If that means holding
back some of the funding until Mexican authorities ulfill their oversight duties, so be it.
Mexico's drug war is a just cause. All the more reason why it must be fought in a just way.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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flyfishinPam
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what the hell is "trafJohn Overmeyer flickers"?
a quick read this story is it's vague yet sensationalist. there are better examples to pad this headline with besides the above.
my opinion stands at legalizing all of it. this is the 1920's Chicago Al Capone revisited but at a much larger scale and more dangerous. when heads
start showing up in the USA with hastily written threats and taunts, and they will, you'll come to the same realization up there. i am sorry it has
to be this way.
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bajajazz
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Longterm, it looks to me like the only thing Calderon and PAN have accomplished in their "War On Drugs," is to bring PRI back into power. And when
PRI regains the presidency in the next presidential election, most likely all restraints will be off and the drugs and weapons will flow across the
border like an avalanche off a mountain. Can anyone say "Failed State?"
The only way to avoid a worse outcome than is already perfectly obvious even to an unengaged observer like me, is to at a minimum decriminalize drugs,
particularly mary jane, and move towards legalization and taxation.
If people want to blow their brains out with coke or whatever -- let 'em. I know that sounds terribly cold, but the choice we face is drug usage done
peaceably, or drug usage accompanied by extreme violence with massive amounts of money flowing into the bank accounts of some of the most despicable
people in the world.
The drug cartels are so powerful now that they are, in effect, a fourth branch of government, albeit underground. While it's a well known truism that
sewage can't flow uphill, money most certainly can and does, and money in massive amounts equals power. It is suicidal insanity for Mexico or the
United States to persist in a "War On Drugs" that has never succeeded and obviously never will.
I find it funny in an ironic kind of way that movement toward a sane drug policy -- if it happens at all -- is going to be dictated not by common
sense, but by the necessity for revenue derived by taxation and the savings that state governments can achieve by not imprisoning drug offenders.
As Duke Ellington used to say, "Necessity is the mother."
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Woooosh
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"Americans ... supply most of the guns imported into Mexico by drug traffickers. "
They just keep repeating this same distortion over and over and now it is accepted as the truth- even by an editorial staff.
90 percent of guns with markings that Mexico could not trace and were sent to the USA for further testing were found to be from the USA. Not 90 % of
all guns.
The thousands of knock-off chinese assault weapons have no markings and hardly any of the guns found in Mexico have any markings to begin with.
Besides...Mexico has no gun tracing database.
By the time they legalize weed and get rid of that drug business, crystal meth will have destroyed Mexico. I can't believe how fast this ugly
witches-brew is spreading down here- tweekers everywhere.
[Edited on 7-20-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
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I would disagree with "most" as well. no proof of that.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Bajahowodd
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I don't know why we seem to get hung up on percentages. In my opinion, any amount of weapons flowing from the US into the hands of the cartels is too
many. Sure, if we are able to staunch that flow, they'll get weapons from elsewhere. But it is still doesn't mean we have to be part of the problem.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
"Americans ... supply most of the guns imported into Mexico by drug traffickers. "
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This 'gun source" stuff is getting tedious. Why won't the US cop out to being the sole supplier and get this blame game over with. I mean, what's
the difference if we're supplying 80% or all of them? We can't say we arn't a major source and our weak arguement is like saying a person is 80%
pregnant.
Too much time is spent argueing this pointless point.
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Woooosh
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I don't think it's even 10% Dennis. There is no possible way for Mexico to prove any number at all- so they distorted the tracking process and made
up a huge one. Mexico doesn't have a tracking system or database- they are only now trying to create one. Only reputable gun makers mark their guns
and China and the others who provide the lions share of weapons worldwide don't. You think they are buying grenades and at US gun shows too? Very
tedious indeed when there is no truthful number possible. All propaganda.
Pretty soon they will say is is imposter soldiers doing the torturing- just wait.
[Edited on 7-20-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
There are t disturbing allegations, some of which were detailed recently in The Washington Post, that the Mexican army has carried out forced
disappearances, acts of torture, looting of villages and illegal raids in pursuit f of drug traffickers.
We don't know whether the accusations are true, but it's the job of the Mexican government to find out. |
And, when they find it's true, they should bestow medals of honor on the soldiers who are taking the fight to the enemy rather than flipping over to
the other side. This is war. Fight it like what it is...war. Screw human rights. That plea is just another weapon of the enemy.
Fight it like you want to win it.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I don't think it's even 10% Dennis. |
C'mon, Whoooosh...that's absurd. Every little Hispanic prick on the streets of the US has a garage full of guns. Why would it be hard to believe
they wouldn't be shipped south.
And what's up with all these port of entry interdiction efforts? Haven't they come to terms with the porous border yet? I mean, if a million
Mexicans can walk through unhindered on their northern passage, wouldn't it occur to anybody that arms movers could be using the same trails in a
southern direction?
This whole thing stinks.
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DENNIS
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Let me pose just one more question. At San Ysidro, with the random red lite/green lite thing going on for years, have they ever caught a shippment
of arms going south? I've not heard of one except for some brain-dead Marines getting into the wrong lane.
This whole thing stinks.
One more thing.....It's well known that the vast majority of drugs going north are in container ships. Why wouldn't it be reasonable to assume guns
are in the same ships going south.
This whole thing stinks.
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JESSE
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Well, in my opinion Calderon´s war was a necessary thing. In many cities things where definately out of control and while i cannot comment on Juarez,
or Michoacan, i can definately say Tijuana got (a little) better. Now, these violations where bound to happen when you send out 30,000 soldiers on the
streets. I don´t like it just as much as critics do, but i would say to those critics, "show me viable alternatives?", not just nice feel good
theories that won´t work. If the US would to withdraw the funds, it would just shoot itself on the foot for several reasons. #1 they simply cannot let
the criminals take control wich would end up costing far more lives and money at the end. #2 The funds in reality are not a critical part of the
overall funding that Mexico spends on this drug war.
Your talking gangs that cut off heads and shot up police stations. You can't realistically expect that violations won´t occur.
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comitan
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And then the real story. Don't miss the part where Blackwater is now Xe Services.
ICO CITY, July 16 (Reuters) - As Mexico battles to keep a lid on raging drug murders, American companies are vying for millions of dollars worth of
contracts for military equipment and training under a long-promised U.S aid package.
Private U.S. security firms will get the bulk of a $1.4 billion package pledged by the United States in 2007 to help its southern neighbor crush
rampant drug gang violence. Only a fraction of the aid has been delivered so far.
Almost all of an initial $400 million tranche approved by the U.S. Congress in 2008 and being released bit by bit to buy helicopters and inspection
gear and train Mexican police will be doled out to 30 or 40 U.S. companies, said an official at the U.S. embassy in Mexico City, asking not to be
named.
The state-of-the art equipment, promised by former President George W. Bush at a meeting with President Felipe Calderon in the colonial city of
Merida, is badly needed in Mexico as the death toll from a 2 1/2-year drug war tops 12,800.
"We would love to get in on some of that Merida money," said Scott Newman, an executive from Texas firm Texcalibur, which specializes in
bulletproofing cars used in war zones.
"You see these trucks that aren't armored and they've got the Mexican police in the back holding on to roll bars. They are exposed. The narcos have
bigger more powerful weapons and they just spray them with bullets," said Newman, whose firm recently attended a security fair in Mexico to hawk its
wares.
The Mexican government has welcomed the so-called "Merida Initiative" and a promise by President Barack Obama to try to stem the smuggling of U.S.
guns to Mexico but is not holding its breath for the gear to arrive.
Calderon has poured some $7 billion into a high-stakes army crackdown on drug cartels but his security forces struggle to match the clout of powerful
gangs that shunt $40 billion worth of drugs across the U.S. border each year and smuggle back sophisticated weaponry and technology.
The deployment of thousands of troops since Calderon took office in late 2006 has stoked fresh turf wars between rival gangs. Hitmen often shoot their
victims at close range, behead them or slowly torture them to death in cartel safe houses.
U.S. COMPANIES TOUT MIDEAST EXPERIENCE
Many U.S. security companies that supported anti-drug operations in Colombia or worked in Middle Eastern or African conflict zones say they have the
expertise to help Mexico.
Hurt by the economic downturn, dozens are queuing up for Merida contracts, the U.S. Embassy official told Reuters.
Meanwhile, delays due in part to concerns in the U.S. Congress about possible human rights abuses by Mexican troops and in part to complicated
contracting requirements spread across various U.S. agencies mean very little of the equipment promised under the Merida plan has actually arrived.
Some expect what is eventually delivered may look like less than the $1.4 billion promised to Mexico and Central America.
"I have heard Mexican authorities say the amounts awarded under Merida are false because such a large percentage stays in U.S. hands, in salaries and
contracts and a lot of spending on bureaucracy," said Mexican security analyst Raul Benitez.
The economic downturn prompted the U.S. Congress to reduce the 2009 tranche of the Merida plan by 30 percent, approving just $300 million this year
just as drug killings in Mexico are skyrocketing to unprecedented levels.
Five Bell (TXT.N) helicopters that cost more than $50 million are the first major batch of equipment to be bought under the package but they have yet
to land in Mexico.
Other big contracts will go to scanners to detect traces of drugs, secure communications systems and forensic tools.
A growing trend toward military outsourcing by the U.S. government has come under scrutiny in Iraq after Blackwater security guards were accused of
killing civilians and a former Halliburton subsidiary allegedly overcharged by millions.
Some of the largest private security firms like Dyncorp (DCP.N), Northrop Grumman Corp (NOC.N) and Blackwater, which has changed its name to Xe
Services, declined to say if they were bidding on Merida contracts for equipment or training.
The Mexican government is being picky about contractors, carefully checking their reputations. "There is a sensitivity on (their) part about Merida
looking like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Colombia," the U.S. embassy official said.
U.S. Democratic congresswoman Jan Schakowsky has raised concerns about using private contractors in the drug war abroad, saying monitoring their
activities can be difficult.
"When they wear the badge of the United States there is a very clear chain of command and very clear rules," she told Reuters. "These contractors tend
to be very much independent operators." (Editing by Bill Trott)
[Edited on 7-20-2009 by comitan]
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
And then the real story. Don't miss the part where Blackwater is now Xe Services.
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I have a hard time with this, Wiley. It's difficult to imagine that Mexico would ever give up anything to foreign forces.
Truthfully, I don't believe the governments of Mexico or the U.S. have the balls to wage the fight. Too worried about image and elections and graft
and everything other than purgeing the infection.
Mexico...her administration...her law enforcement agencies and her resolve to be clean ...are filthy. The time may not be too far off that the US
decides to enter sovereign territory to help cleanse the problem.
God bless Calderón for his efforts but, it has become evident that the problem has spread to epidemic proportions. The insurgency is larger than
ever imagined and it's working it's way north. Don't ever think it isn't.
The Mexican government invited into her home a cancer she thought she could control. Now.. it's taken over and may not be stopped.
Tough times call for tough decisions. Let's hope somebody has the balls to make them.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I don't think it's even 10% Dennis. |
C'mon, Whoooosh...that's absurd. Every little Hispanic prick on the streets of the US has a garage full of guns. Why would it be hard to believe
they wouldn't be shipped south.
And what's up with all these port of entry interdiction efforts? Haven't they come to terms with the porous border yet? I mean, if a million
Mexicans can walk through unhindered on their northern passage, wouldn't it occur to anybody that arms movers could be using the same trails in a
southern direction?
This whole thing stinks. |
You are right that there are a gazzillion US made guns in Mexico. So I'll give you half the argument and I know I didn't chuck mine in the trash
whenI moved here. Were talking about the large calibre assault weapnos capable of taking out military. We are talking war grade weapons- not 7/11
robbeies. Or at least I am.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Let me pose just one more question. At San Ysidro, with the random red lite/green lite thing going on for years, have they ever caught a shippment
of arms going south? I've not heard of one except for some brain-dead Marines getting into the wrong lane.
This whole thing stinks.
One more thing.....It's well known that the vast majority of drugs going north are in container ships. Why wouldn't it be reasonable to assume guns
are in the same ships going south.
This whole thing stinks. |
corrrect two more times- you're on a streak 
It does absolutely dumbfound me that high-tech tunnels are still being built and used. They found an electrified one just last week under the via
rapida (Border to Playas highway). The one they found at Otay a few years back was lighted, air conditioned, could handle pallets and came up into a
warehouse for trucking out. Why is there no DEA equipment for tunnel finding (sensors with a blend of seismology and imaging- not just above ground
systems.) ?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Well, in my opinion Calderon´s war was a necessary thing. In many cities things where definately out of control and while i cannot comment on Juarez,
or Michoacan, i can definately say Tijuana got (a little) better. Now, these violations where bound to happen when you send out 30,000 soldiers on the
streets. I don´t like it just as much as critics do, but i would say to those critics, "show me viable alternatives?", not just nice feel good
theories that won´t work. If the US would to withdraw the funds, it would just shoot itself on the foot for several reasons. #1 they simply cannot let
the criminals take control wich would end up costing far more lives and money at the end. #2 The funds in reality are not a critical part of the
overall funding that Mexico spends on this drug war.
Your talking gangs that cut off heads and shot up police stations. You can't realistically expect that violations won´t occur.
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It was and is a necessary war. Calderon (and most all of us) had no idea how little righteousness existed within the corrupted institutions that made
up his army. Police, Lawyers, Prosecuors, Judges, Jailers, the Military, Politicians, and even his closest security advisors. They basically hung
him out to dry and yet he's still fighting. I think this is the first time the sysytem has been exposed like this. Fox started to- but it was
Calderon who beat the hornests nest.
I tried to explain "moral copass" to a narco once and he loooked at me in stunned disbelief- like i was a guru putting him on the path to
enlightenment. They are morally like the night of the living dead- zombies trudging forward without guilt or shame.
I would add to Jesses comments that the United States has let us all down for doing the very same things the Mexican Army is now being accused of. He
was too kind to point that out. The more I learn about what was allowed to be acceptable by our troops, the harder it is for me to judge other
less-developed countries without our values. I don't think we all understand yet just how far went after 911. All armies have renegade soldiers and
groups - look at Ecuador.
I think one high-tech soutbound checkpoint y Mexico could confiscate more cash than what the US is offerring up in Meridia funds anyway- just a pallet
or two of hundreds a week will do...
[Edited on 7-21-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
Fox started to- but it was Calderon who beat the hornests nest.
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Ohhhh pleeeeze....the only thing Fox started was his personal PR firm. Lame pato from day one.
Did you read his book? It opens with an appeal for understanding of illegal immigration.
Ride off into the sunset, Fox....assuming you know what direction that lies.
Six years of useless dork this country didn't need.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
Fox started to- but it was Calderon who beat the hornests nest.
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Ohhhh pleeeeze....the only thing Fox started was his personal PR firm. Lame pato from day one.
Did you read his book? It opens with an appeal for understanding of illegal immigration.
Ride off into the sunset, Fox....assuming you know what direction that lies.
Six years of useless dork this country didn't need. |
It not what Fox did or did not accomplish. It was the first change in party control. Kind of like gore's people taking the "w" off all the white
house keyboards- but on a national level and at every level. Hard place to start from.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
It not what Fox did or did not accomplish. |
Really???? He could have done something. After all, It was his show and the longer it played, the worse the reviews got.
No Whoooosh...He freakin blew it. He did nothing. He was intimidated to the max. By his inaction in the face of the enemy, he became one of them.
Public enemy number freakin one.
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