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shari
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Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Biosphere Reserve Permits MAY be required for private boats
I was just informed by the biosphere reserve secretary that all private boats that put in within the Biosphere reserve from GN-Abreojos MIGHT require
a Reserve permit. Foreigners who are residents of the Reserve are exempt if they have their FM3 address in the reserve and are just fishing once in
awhile for thier dinner... this is for mexicans and gringos alike. So tourists coming to sportfish in their own boat may need the permit.
So this means that you must solicit a permit between April and the end of September through the Biosphere reserve office or website with documents
attached...copy of your passport, vessel registration, insurance policy, description of where you will be fishing or sightseeing, and the payment.
this gets sent to La Paz for approval and is supposed to take 10 days. You also need the daily bracelet permit or passport for each person on board.
So any visiting vessel wh wants to extract a resource...fish...may need the permit.
You can contact the Reserve secretary Marisol at 615-157-1777 or check the website for the permit application. It can be done online.
Yes, this is being newly enforced...NO you cant just pay a bribe...profepa can either give you a warning, fine you and/or confiscate gear. Profepa
will be doing spot checks in all areas including La bocana, Asuncion and abreojos.
although this may seem detrimental to tourism in the area, it's the law to protect the area of the reserve and we must follow it.
[Edited on 9-24-2009 by shari]
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maspacifico
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Hola shari,
Do you know if a kayak is included if someone is fishing from it?
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I have emailed the Reserve with your question...you definately need the bracelet...I'll let ya know what they determine.
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Just off the phone with Marisol and she informed me that yes, kayaks do need the permit just like any other vessel...darn.
I can see this is going to affect tourism here and I am scrambling to figure out a way to make this permit process easier....perhaps someone could act
as an agent and fill out all the forms for people, send in the payment etc. I found it a very very difficult process and I speak fluent spanish...I'm
working on it amigos...maybe a form in english too...it will be something people will have to do well in advance if they want to operate a vessel in
this area.
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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interesting idea....but the Reserve is also under the direction of the Mexican government...CONANP...kinda like a national parks system so I think it
is the government, not UNESCO that has initiated the permit and fee system.
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mtgoat666
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would be much more practical if i could buy my kayak permit on same day I arrive, perhaps buy permit at local office or agent.
if people need to buy a permit for a kayak,, and can only do so by some cumbersome mail-in process... well, sounds like local kayak tour operators and
charter boat operators are using govt action in attempt to restrict do-it-yourself-boaters, thinking they will be able to lead more guided boat trips.
those operators should realize that boaters will just avoid visiting, and stay over in SOC.
newkid, the UN has nada to do with fees and fee process.
[Edited on 9-23-2009 by mtgoat666]
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Natalie Ann
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
So this means that you must solicit a permit between April and the end of September through the Biosphere reserve office or website with documents
attached...copy of your passport, vessel registration, insurance policy, description of where you will be fishing or sightseeing, and the payment.
this gets sent to La Paz for approval and is supposed to take 10 days. You also need the daily bracelet permit or passport for each person on board.
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As is often the case, I'm a bit confused here.
Is the permit good from April through September, or does one need to apply for specific dates/places?
nena
Be yourself, everyone else is already taken.
.....Oscar Wilde
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Russ
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I have no problem with participating in a fee for use. Just like we do in the States.
However .... Here we go again, send PROFEPA in to fine you or confiscate your property before they have a reasonable system in place to purchase a
permit, pass or what ever they're calling it this week.
They won't publish the new policy so visitors will know in advance because many will just go somewhere else and they can't decide what exactly the
actual policy will be or how to implament it. Chances are it will be so dysfunctional no one but a PROFEPA agent can use it. And if PROFEPA does site
you and you want to contest it you'll have to find the correct agency to handle that. This is another typical "cart before the horse" project. I know
everyone will have ideas on how it should/could be done efficiently and tastefully and I won't go into my thoughts about that.....
I really hope this idea works out in an organized way to benefit the environment and the locals.
[Edited on 9-23-2009 by Russ]
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
newkid, the UN has nada to do with fees and fee process.
[Edited on 9-23-2009 by mtgoat666] |
Exactly, again, cite the laws that authorize this huge privitization which restricts, fines, and enforces a rule only designated on "outsiders".
Of course, UN has nothing to do with local enforcement, *now*, they simply are doing a worldwide land grand without even stepping foot on the
property, while they engage local populations to restrict each other, first "the outsider" and then themselves. It's pure genius all under the color
of environmentalism.
Be very cautious about what you ask for... |
newkid,
you are new, kid, and probably don't know about the effort in creation of biossphere in 1980s and effort in 1990s to protect San Ignacio Lagoon.
i think establishment of a bioshere preserve was great. i think protection from development, with sustainable land use (e.g. tourism), is best use
for the area.
i can't figure out if you are: (1) a libertarian that thinks individuals have a right to do anything w/o regard to society, (2) someone who cares
about preserving natural resources, or (3) a paranoid left wing libertarian. Which are you?
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maspacifico
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I'm all for the idea of Marine Parks and Biosphere's..... If only I could run them all!!! I'm normal.......really! When we all had to have boat
permits I couldn't figure out HOW to register my kayak, there aren't any serial numbers and I sure didn't have anything from the US to use. As for
insurance..... Anyway, a Mexican government agency has gotten it's teeth into the area and they never let go.........citing laws?  I live next door to the Cabo Pulmo "thing" and have never gotten the same answer to
a question twice....not even from the same guy.
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jls
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If this is a bonafide fee like the fishing license, then maybe Vagabundos or Discover Baja could get involved.
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Barry A.
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ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON, gnukid!!!!!!
Barry
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shari
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Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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All the legal mumbo jumbo is in the Biosphere reserve and CONANP websites...which are tedious and takes alot of time to find what you are looking for
and are in spanish. But it appears these laws have been in effect for quite some time but hadnt' been enforced except in extreme situations like the
Whale calving lagoons where protection is obviously necessary.
Like many laws here, the ownice is on you to know the law...ignorance is not an excuse for breaking it.
What I am trying to do is make a case for making it easier to obtain these permits...somehow improving the system...but as you all know, change comes
slowly and painfully.
Many say I shouldnt get involved...but I feel instead of complaining about something, one should try to do something to improve or find solutions to
the problem. If no one tried...no change would occur and our area would suffer a decline in visitors....just when things were looking up. I know some
would welcome that too.
I have heard rumblings that the licensed operators are pressing for these permits which is balderdash as all these permits were created years ago
before any of us had them. Althoug I do think it only fair, if we need a permit to take a boat out in the reserve than everyone should need one....but
what is disturbing is how difficult it is to figure out how to get it....which is what I shall be dedicating time to.
russ...the systems have been in place for a long time...just not used and profepa will be spot checking.
natalie...permits may be applied for only between April 1st and Sept.30 and are good for a year...maybe 2...let me check that... after which you apply
for a renewal.
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Natalie Ann
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Permits good for a year.... thanks, shari.
nena
Be yourself, everyone else is already taken.
.....Oscar Wilde
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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the bracelet is just proof of the permit...the bracelet idea is so that one couldnt just pass over the permit to someone else...single use daily
permit kind of thing.
I understand what you are getting at Gnukid and agree to a point....but living in mexico on a mexican wage is at best...marginal...permits, taxes,
high operating costs makes it difficult to break even...so to risk our livliehood by not conforming to state and federal regulations is not possible
at this time.
All I can do is try to make things easier, clearer so they make more sense.
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tripledigitken
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When I hear of these policies being implemented in Baja, it truly tests the "feeling the love" of Baja.
This is worst than any permit process I have come across in the US. If a turist cannot get a permit when they arrive at a "Biosphere" location and
receive it the same day, then it is essentially shutting down the attraction of going for most.
Ken
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salvavida
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Just so I am clear. If I decide in October to visit the Biosphere area with my wife an kid, and we decide to bring a kayak, I have to obtain a vessel
permit in September? Also, If my wife and kid like to swim while I go for a surf , all three of us need bracelets each day? I'm happy to buy fishing
licenses for the three of us to be able to fish in a boat, although I'm the only one with a pole. This is really going to put a damper on
spontaneously vacationing in the Biosphere area if I have to worry about being fined for swimming or fishing if I cant easily access permits in the
area I arrive in.
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wessongroup
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Compliance/Enforcement
Would also offer, trying to protect the "Environment" is a very difficult and complex charge and in most cases develops into shouting matches very
quickly, as one is being told how to use their "environment" (how to live).
In the development of the Federal EPA, State EPA's in the early 1970's and the integration into the lower levels of government were not easy tasks to
achieve here in the United States. There were hard fought battles with many and varied concerns which had to be balanced out, with an eye out for the
reality of impending future time frames along with other regulatory agency's needs and requirements, (some under Treaties).
"Intent" is what one should be considering when interpreting laws and regulations coupled to the mind set of "compliance" rather than "enforcement"
[Edited on 9-23-2009 by wessongroup]
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Salvavida...fishing regs say everyone in the boat needs a license...fishing or not. We now know that the kayak needs a license too...but i wouldnt
worry about the kids swimming....as I mentioned...the lines arent drawn in the sand yet...things are rather vague...and they will use their criteria
to decide when and where to apply the regs. It started with the whale watching lagoons, now is spreading to sportsfishing.
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toneart
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"Finally, do you recall anytime in world history when certain individuals were required to wear a bracelet or armband determined by their "outsider"
qualities in order to pass?" -Gnukid
Yes, it happens all the time; rock or jazz festivals, gated communities, admission to events, etc. If you were thinking N-zi Germany during WWll, that
example is neither relevant to this discussion nor this attempt at establishing an idea benevolent to the environment.
In regards to enforcement, Mexican "authorities" have never been on the same page. Inconsistency between departments, within departments and
even by individuals within departments, is the norm.
So if you are caught in a violation you would sit in jail or have your boat confiscated or be fined. What can you do, defiantly rot in jail while
your lawyer takes all your money and fights your case all the way to the Mexican Supreme Court? And just what are your rights as a U.S. or Canadian
citizen?
I agree with Gnukid's esprit de corps but not to the point of martyrdom. Martyrdom is but one method to demonstrate Principle. It is not for
everybody. It is, however, a life's mission for a few.
When in Mexico do your best to comply, regardless of how illogically the law is constructed or enforced. It is what it is! Shari is doing the right
thing in trying to get better clarification. I don't envy her task.
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