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arrowhead
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A Tale of Two Countries
I'm going to show you two news items about the exact same incident, where an illegal Mexican immgrant was shot and killed near Douglas, AZ after
throwing rocks at a Border Partol agent and his dog and resisting arrest. First the American press:
| Quote: | Border Patrol agent fatally shoots illegal immigrant
Border Patrol agent fatally shoots illegal immigrant DOUGLAS, AZ (KOLD) - A Border Patrol agent fatally shot a man just outside Douglas Monday
morning.
The suspected illegal immigrant died in a helicopter while in route to a Tucson hospital.
It happened when-- according to a Border Patrol release-- agents lost track of three suspected immigrants in an area known as Bay Acres.
Agents eventually tracked one illegal immigrant hiding under a tree after receiving a tip and using a trained K9.
Officials say the suspect refused to come out from under the tree and began throwing rocks. The rocks struck both the agent and his K9, officials
said.
A foot chase involving several agents began when the illegal immigrant fled the area. Officials say he started 'aggressively' throwing rocks and
refused to stop.
One agent fired two shots.
Agents gave the suspect first aid while waiting for a medical helicopter. The 28-year-old illegal immigrant died while in route to a Tucson hospital.
One agent went to a hospital for treatment for injuries. The K9 also saw the vet for injuries.
http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=11767274
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...and now the Mexican press:
| Quote: | SRE condena asesinato de migrante en EU
MÉXICO, D.F.(Agencias)
La Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores (SRE) dijo que "estará atenta al esclarecimiento de los hechos" sobre la muerte de un inmigrante mexicano
"víctima de un disparo" de un agente de la Patrulla Fronteriza de EU en la zona de Douglas, Arizona.
La SRE expresó en un comunicado "su profunda preocupación por el fallecimiento, el 4 de enero, del connacional Jorge Alfredo Solís Palma", en las
inmediaciones de la ciudad de Douglas, aproximadamente a un kilómetro de la frontera.
La investigación del incidente por parte del Sheriff de Cochise, de la Oficina Federal de Investigaciones (FBI) y de la propia Patrulla Fronteriza
"está en curso", por lo cual la cancillería de México "estará atenta a los resultados de la misma a fin de que se determinen las circunstancias de lo
ocurrido", destacó.
El consulado de México en Douglas "mantiene comunicación con todas las autoridades locales competentes para dar seguimiento puntual al proceso",
detalló la SRE.
Además, la representación consular mexicana "inició el procedimiento para localizar a los familiares de Solís Palma y poder brindarles la ayuda
correspondiente, incluyendo las gestiones de repatriación del cuerpo a territorio mexicano", agregó la dependencia.
El Gobierno mexicano indicó que a través de sus embajadas y consulados "continuará velando por los intereses de los mexicanos en el exterior frente a
casos que vulneren su integridad física y sus derechos humanos".
Asimismo, ratificó su compromiso con el combate a las actividades delictivas en la zona fronteriza, incluyendo las vinculadas con el tráfico de
personas.
Más de 5 mil emigrantes mexicanos han muerto en los últimos quince años en los desiertos, ríos y montañas de la frontera en su intento de cruzar a
Estados Unidos en busca de una mejor vida, según datos de la Comisión Nacional de los Derechos Humanos.
http://www.frontera.info/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Nacional/06012...
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I won't translate it, you can Google it. But the headline says "The Mexican State Department condemns the killing of an immigrant in the US." Further
down there is a statement which reads, "The Mexican government said that through its embassies and consulates it will continue to ensure the interests
of Mexicans abroad where there are cases that violate their physical well-being and human rights." Not one word, not one stinking word, about the
fact the guy was resisting arrest, throwing rocks at the border patrol and injured a BP agent and his dog while fleeing on foot.
Further down in the Frontera article there are readers comments. Almost all of them are in support of the US and against the Mexican government for
its indolence to the problems of its people.
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
I don't know about you but when we were kids and somebody was throwing rocks at us, we got out of throwing distance. You going to shoot somebody for
illegally crossing the border? Lethal force for that offense? |
Donjulio, if you are ever sitting around someday and wondering why people view Mexican real estate sales people as a few levels below used car
salesmen, you only have to reread your last post.
I was a kid too. I also went to school, all the way through a post graduate degree. Not once in my entire life was I ever taught that sworn police
officers should run away when a felon attacks them with a deadly weapon. Would you mind telling us where you grew up? Was it some place over the
rainbow where bluebirds fly?
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
I don't know about you but when we were kids and somebody was throwing rocks at us, we got out of throwing distance. You going to shoot somebody for
illegally crossing the border? Lethal force for that offense? |
what if he was wearing a turban carrying a backpack?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
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A tale from the USA and yet another Tale-Spin from Mexico.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Bajahowodd
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Oh, come on! This illegal must have been quite good at throwing rocks. I agree that lethal force does seem to be over the line. Let's say, just for
the sake of discussion, the agents actually did feel their safety was threatened, and they carried no weapons other than their guns(no taser, for
instance). Either they need to hit the firing range or find a new line of work. I just cannot see how they couldn't have, as a last resort, shot him
in the leg.
That said, I understand why arrowhead posted this. The main point, obviously, is that the Mexican authorities and press appear oblivious to the crime
of illegal immigration. But, I also see where they could feel that the force used was excessive.
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Salvador
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I totally agree with Don Julio
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Bajahowodd
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Salvador
I totally agree with Don Julio |
You talking about the guy who deleted his posts?
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tripledigitken
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Don who?
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Dave
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I totally agree with anyone who's
| Quote: | Originally posted by Salvador
I totally agree with Don Julio |
Buying Don Julio.
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MrBillM
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Getting Stoned
Don't get shot.
Simple.
Don't Throw Rocks at People with Guns.
Advocating or Forcing Law Officers to use alternative methods in such cases would simply encourage the Stoners to do more throwing. IF they know the
end result of their stoning might be lethal to THEM, MOST will think twice. Those that don't suffer the Darwinian result.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Advocating or Forcing Law Officers to use alternative methods in such cases would simply encourage the Stoners to do more throwing. IF they know the
end result of their stoning might be lethal to THEM, MOST will think twice. Those that don't suffer the Darwinian result. |
Well said, Bill. Couldnt agree more.
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toneart
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If I witnessed an officer shoot anyone for throwing rocks, and then if he looked my way, I would say, "Yes Sir!" and put up my hands. But I wouldn't
like it.
I wouldn't agree with his vehement reaction or his lethal decision to shoot to kill. It was not warranted. It was over the top. But the man with the
gun is "Mr. Boss".
That is quite an act of desperation for the poor guy who was throwing rocks. It doesn't mean he is stupid. It just means that he is suddenly dead.
Testing the cop mentality is like the allegory of the Crocodile offering the Monkey a ride on his back across the river, promising that he wouldn't
harm him. Halfway across the river the Crocodile throws the Monkey into the water and snaps him in two. The monkey's last words were, "Why are you
doing this? You promised me you wouldn't" The Crocodile replied, "...because I am a Crocodile!"
[Edited on 1-6-2010 by toneart]
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Bajahowodd
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Like you guys really think that the next desperate illegal is even going to know that? Give me a break.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
That is quite an act of desperation for the poor guy who was throwing rocks. It doesn't mean he is stupid. It just means that he is suddenly dead.
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Throwing rocks is an act of desperation?
C'mon, Tony. It's an act of agression. A brutal attack.
Shoot to kill.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Salvador
I totally agree with Don Julio |
Hey Chava, welcome. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I would just like to remind you that when you and your brother, Tony, were taking Tan
So Do lessons from Jan Roberts in Tijuana, he was thrown out of Mexico by Mexican immigration. If Mexico can enforce its immigration laws on
Americans, I think the US should also be allowed to enforce its immigration laws.
By the way, congratulations on your honors last month from Mayor Ramos.
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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tripledigitken
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Arrowhead,
You certainly make for interesting reading. Keep it up.
Ken
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Let's say, just for the sake of discussion, the agents actually did feel their safety was threatened, and they carried no weapons other than their
guns(no taser, for instance). Either they need to hit the firing range or find a new line of work. I just cannot see how they couldn't have, as a last
resort, shot him in the leg. |
Howard, I can only assume you have never been in the military or have any training or experience with handguns. First of all, forget what you see in
the movies. Handguns are not accurate. If you are running in the desert and dodging rocks, you'd be lucky to even hit a man standing 30 feet from you
with a service pistol.
Secondly, police training is not to shoot to wound. It is to save your life or the life of some other innocent person. If it escalates enough that an
officer has to draw his weapon to shoot, the decision to shoot to kill is already made. The only training is to fire center of mass.
And finally, please read the news article a little closer. The BP officer AND his dog where already injured by rocks thrown by the illegal BEFORE he
fired.
...oh, and try to remember that the BP just buried another BP agent who took about 9 bullets from an illegal alien last month.
[Edited on 1-7-2010 by arrowhead]
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Arrowhead,
You certainly make for interesting reading. Keep it up.
Ken |
Hey, I'd keep it up now just to p*ss off The Gull and Mexicorn.
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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toneart
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AHA!
| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
| Quote: | Originally posted by Salvador
I totally agree with Don Julio |
Hey Chava, welcome. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I would just like to remind you that when you and your brother, Tony, were taking Tan
So Do lessons from Jan Roberts in Tijuana, he was thrown out of Mexico by Mexican immigration. If Mexico can enforce its immigration laws on
Americans, I think the US should also be allowed to enforce its immigration laws.
By the way, congratulations on your honors last month from Mayor Ramos. |
Tony's cover is blown! My name is Toneart, not Tony. Toneart's alter ego is
Tony.
Toneart knows nothing about "Tan So Do". Please explain it to him, er me, er...who ever the hell I am. Mayor Ramos put Toneart on his persona non
grata list years ago for not spending enough money in Rosorito.
And now Tony is going *poof* into cyberspace,ignoring the cyberborder, just like Don Julio. Bye Dennis! Bye Cabezaflecha! o Puntadeflecha.
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
That is quite an act of desperation for the poor guy who was throwing rocks. It doesn't mean he is stupid. It just means that he is suddenly dead.
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Throwing rocks is an act of desperation?
C'mon, Tony. It's an act of agression. A brutal attack.
Shoot to kill. |
Stupid to bring a rock to a gun fight
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