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Woooosh
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Calderon Proposes Scrapping Local Police Departments... in Baja too?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jun/03/drug-torn-mex...
The article isn't specific where this would happen. The Mayor of Rosarito has been fielding a record number of complaints against the local police.
I do like the idea of having better quality police- but can't they do that in schools instead of bringing in the Military? They identified the need
for more schooling by the police two years ago- those guys could have a AA degree by now...
"Part of the goal is to root out corruption by replacing generally low-paid, poorly educated local police, who are seen as more susceptible to bribery
and intimidation by the powerful cartels."
The goal is hard to argue with, but what about the judicial system that is educated, totally corrupt and can undo whatever the military does as
policemen.? Will Military courts be next then until Mexican civilian courts catch up too? hmm.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
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Wooosh, would you expand a bit on the "Rosarito" ...... thanks..
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I do like the idea of having better quality police- but can't they do that in schools instead of bringing in the Military?
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They're only as good as their teachers.
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bajaguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I do like the idea of having better quality police- but can't they do that in schools instead of bringing in the Military?
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They're only as good as their teachers. |
And their leaders..........personally, I prefer the military
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Bajahowodd
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The long term solution should not be the military. Police and soldiers are trained for different tasks. That said, from what I gleaned from the
article, eliminating local police and having each state have their own, singular policing unit would appear to be a logistical nightmare. Even now,
less than half the states even have an existing force of their own. But, the one benefit from this idea would be that with a stronger, better paid,
better educated force that was responsible to a centralized state authority, chances are good that it would eliminate some amount of the corruption
that exists today.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
responsible to a centralized state authority, chances are good that it would eliminate some amount of the corruption that exists today.
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Really?? Why?? Did they go to "Saint School?"
You have to remember...corruption IS the system. It's one thing to change the actors, but a completely different thing to change the script.
A good person who falls into a cesspool has to deal with cess. [whatever that is]
OK...I'm out of metaphores till I get back from Sharkey's.
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Bajahowodd
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I'm not blind to the idea that corruption won't just end, if the change is made. Just that, given the huge numbers of local forces whose members
report locally and are therefore locally influenced and beholden, might change somewhat if there is a strong centralized authority that will be much
less likely to be influenced by local "needs and wants".
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Cypress
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No thought's regarding the Gulf of Mexico oils spill?
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tjBill
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The Tijuana police are behaving better. Have not heard of extortion attempts recently. Firing a third of the force and boosting their pay to 15,000
pesos a month seems to be working.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Wooosh, would you expand a bit on the "Rosarito" ...... thanks.. |
If you mean police complaints- it's for civil stuff like "over stepping their authority". The local paper said the Mayor has received 30 formal
complaints in the last 90 days. They made a few policeman heroes after that and had some public ceremonies to counter the bad PR. They do post a long
and detailed (although not verifiable) daily police log on the "Rosarito in the News" http://rosaritoenlanoticia.blogspot.com/#googtrans/auto/en.
The police reports are by police unit and neighborhood. To check their accuracy I would drink a fifth of good tequila and run around your neighborhood
buck naked. I'll check the website and see if they mentioned you in the daily Police Log... 
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
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Thanks Woooosh.. I needed that...
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Bajahowodd
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You Talkin' To Me?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
No thought's regarding the Gulf of Mexico oils spill? |
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
No thought's regarding the Gulf of Mexico oils spill? |
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yeah. I think more about those underwater PeMex pipelines in Rosarito. They aren't from Haliburton- are they?
The Gulf spill situation reminds me of Chernobyl or three-mile island. Some technologies and industries should never be allowed to skimp on safety
for whatever purpose.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I'm not blind to the idea that corruption won't just end, if the change is made. Just that, given the huge numbers of local forces whose members
report locally and are therefore locally influenced and beholden, might change somewhat if there is a strong centralized authority that will be much
less likely to be influenced by local "needs and wants". |
Nonsense...You know that.
Quit tryig to assign responsibily as you like it to those who act out your reality.
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BajaBruno
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While I don't necessarily agree with Dennis' unilateral rejection of the idea, I am also not optimistic that having the state take over law
enforcement for the cities will change things overnight. One could argue that by rotating officers they would not have the opportunity to establish
the linkages that are necessary to maintain systemic corruption, but the problem is not the officers--it is their supervisors. If the leaders allow
it, corruption will happen. Good leadership could stop the problem quickly.
Anecdotal evidence would suggest that the state LE is just as succeptible to crime as their local brothers--they are just more discreet about it.
Mexico tried replacing all the customs guys at the border to reduce corruption and I haven't heard how that experiment has faired.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruno
While I don't necessarily agree with Dennis' unilateral rejection of the idea, I am also not optimistic that having the state take over law
enforcement for the cities will change things overnight. One could argue that by rotating officers they would not have the opportunity to establish
the linkages that are necessary to maintain systemic corruption, but the problem is not the officers--it is their supervisors. If the leaders allow
it, corruption will happen. Good leadership could stop the problem quickly.
Anecdotal evidence would suggest that the state LE is just as succeptible to crime as their local brothers--they are just more discreet about it.
Mexico tried replacing all the customs guys at the border to reduce corruption and I haven't heard how that experiment has faired.
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To your point- if Rosarito would prohibit the use of personal cell phones on duty by the Police- that alone would help a lot. The shady people know
which cops to call to the scene to take over from the responding officers and change the outcome of the investigation. They have to be randomly
dispatched within a reasonably sized sector.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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BajaBruno
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Gnukid, certainly, creating military rule would be an exaggerated response except in the most dire circumstances, but a federal police force is rather
common. Both France and Italy, to mention large, modern states, have national police working in cities and it seems to work well; so, nationalizing
the police function is not necessarily the first step to tyranny and totalitarianism.
Woooosh, if only the solution were as simple as banning cell phones. That's what you do with an otherwise good police force who are casually
overstepping their boundaries. When you have wholesale corruption, the remedy must be much more dramatic. I see your point, and it is well taken,
but corruption happens because leaders allow it, and they allow it because it benefits them.
As an isolated and by comparison minor example, the LAPD Rampart Scandal was a result of leadership who wanted crime reduction results and didn't care
how they got them. But, cops who are allowed to break little rules lose their ethics, and then breaking big rules doesn't seem to be such a stretch.
Mexico has the same situation, but for different motives. The result is the same--once a cop's (or priest's, or an intelligence agent's) ethics are
compromised, there is really no going back and no limit to what they will do. A few minor rule changes are not going to solve the problem. You can’t
un-rot that barrel of apples.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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JESSE
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This is a bad law.
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Bajajorge
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I do like the idea of having better quality police- but can't they do that in schools instead of bringing in the Military?
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They're only as good as their teachers. |
Which gold card has the most juice, military or police?
And their leaders..........personally, I prefer the military |
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Woooosh
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All good points. I guess I should accept "the fish stinks from the head" approach. A few months ago Jesse pointed out the cozy relationship sought
between certain political parties and drug cartels (correct me if I mis-stated it). I guess the drug cartels are the "lobbyists" of the Mexican
political system and that makes rooting corruption pretty much impossible when there is really no individual will to do it- words and posturing, but
not much actual will IMHO. Who in Mexico is willing to live on their base incomes and be the first to turn down a cash bribe? After seeing my money
change hands at the PGJE with my own eyes- and seeing the grateful look the cash recipients had on their faces, I am convinced these people only see
this corruption the way a sub-minimum wage waitress sees yet expects a tip for service at a restaurant.
Even from his jail cell a thousand miles away where he is charged with having $2.5 Million of narco-cash stashed away in secret bank accounts- the
Mayor of Cancun is still trying to stay on the election ballot:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06...
[Edited on 6-7-2010 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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