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yakyak2010
Junior Nomad
Posts: 94
Registered: 4-24-2010
Location: Victorville, Ca.
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good motors for tin boats
I'm getting a older 14' Gregor aluminum boat. Doing the Baja Catch style cartopping. Any suggestions on motors? I'm thinking 15 or 20 hp 4-stroke.
I can't spend a much but really want reliability over all else.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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For a car topper a 10 would work OK but 15 would of course be better and not much more weight. Check the outboard repair shops for some really good
deals on 2strokes if it's only going to be a Baja boat. Or trader type publications. 4strokes, I mostly see Honda & Yamaha. Don't forget back up
empeller, plugs and maybe a prop and fuel tank. Have fun!
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 8-27-2003
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http://smalloutboards.com/
15HP and 2 stroke for weight. We're not getting any younger.
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Pacifico
Super Nomad
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YakYak,
I would go with a 20 hp minimum. Keep in mind that conditions aren't always perfect and that winds can come up. Sometimes you need to hightail it back
to camp/shore.
I was once at LA Bay years ago in a small infaltable heading into the wind to get back to camp and we were hardly making any headway. That was with a
15 hp Suzuki. If reliability is your main concern, go with a 4 stroke for sure. I've owned several outboards; both 2 and 4 stroke. Hard to beat the 4
strokes, only downside is the extra weight (and price). Good luck and be safe!
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BajaBruno
Super Nomad
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As has been said, a 20HP 4-stroke is heavy, and unless you are a brute, or have some help, it will be tough getting it from the truck to the boat next
to the water. Many 18HP 2-strokes, however, are built on 9.9 HP bodies, so they are much lighter. My Tohatsu 18 was a jewel (until some stinking
Belizean stole it off the boat), but there are other good ones out there.
Reliability? A good VHF radio, some Spanish proficiency, and a paddle can't hurt; but honestly, my Tohatsu never let me down.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
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Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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If only 1 or 2 people in your Gregor then a 15 hp 2-stroke will do just fine, and you can get on a plane with no problems and really tear if you need
to make a run for home. Any more than 2 people then you will need a 20 hp. if you carry 12+ gallons of gas.
I have no experience with 4-strokes, but I hear they are heavier, smoother running, quieter, and more reliable---- perhaps.
I go with the 15 hp 2-stroke.
Barry
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mulegemichael
Super Nomad
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Registered: 12-24-2007
Location: sequim,wa. and mulege
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we've had a 15hp 4 stroke honda on our 15' gregor for years...it just skips our boat along with 2 people and all the gear....just upgraded to a new
motor that's exactly the same except the new one has an electric start to try and salvage my back...we're excited!
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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I use a 15hp Honda on my 14' Klamath, it's great for 2 people and will push 3 providing they aren't 200 pounders. I had a 2 stroke Suzuki before that
which worked fine but the lighter weight was off set by having to carry more fuel, also buying 2stroke oil added to the cost of operating it. I have
had the Honda since 2000 and all I have had to do to it besides routine maintenance is clean the carb a couple of times, always starts on the second
pull when cold.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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The new Honda 15hp 4 stroke (rounded top) is more powerful than the older (square top). I think they changed them 4-5 years ago. That new Honda
weighs 105lb (vs 94 for old) but you can really feel the difference in performance. It pushes a 15ft gregor real well. The 20hp is built on the 15hp
body and weighs the same.
The 15hp four stroke feels like the 20hp merc 2 stroke from the past and a lot more powerful than the 15hp evinrude 2 stroke from the 80's.
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Bob and Susan
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forget 2 strokes...only get a 4 stroke
most lakes are now "banning" 2 strokes
we have a 9.9 hp on our metal 15 footer
the boat is old but the motor new
get a NEW 25hp
don't "cheap out"
remember...your boat will never be large enough
and NEVER has a big enough engine
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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2 strokes are noisy and smoky and worse mileage which reduces your fishing enjoyment. If you want to enjoy yourself get a small 4 stroke that you can
lift, that would be a 6,9.9 or 15hp and try that first, or of course you can get two motors, one 9.9hp and one 25hp, a 9.9/4 stroke will weigh about
100lbs and a 25hp/4 stroke 155lbs.
If you can't lift the motor you won't go fishing so why not use a 6hp @ 60lbs for a while if you are car topping... speaking from the perspective of a
daily cartopper. I always head into the the direction of the known wind direction at sunrise then as it builds turn around and ride it back home.
Never put yourself downwind of your return destination with predictable increasing wind.
Try creating a spreadsheet with estimated weights of the boat and motor plus supplies to give your self an idea of what your getting into versus what
you are capable of. Small boating is all geometry. The boat will plane easily if it sits flat, if not it will take more power to plane.
[Edited on 8-9-2010 by gnukid]
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ElFaro
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Registered: 9-16-2007
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
forget 2 strokes...only get a 4 stroke
most lakes are now "banning" 2 strokes |
What lakes? Can't think of too many lakes in Baja where this is an issue...
by gnukid
"2 strokes are noisy and smoky and worse mileage which reduces your fishing enjoyment. If you want to enjoy yourself get a small 4 stroke that you can
lift, that would be a 6,9.9 or 15hp and try that first, or of course you can get two motors, one 9.9hp and one 25hp, a 9.9/4 stroke will weigh about
100lbs and a 25hp/4 stroke 155lbs.
If you can't lift the motor you won't go fishing so why not use a 6hp @ 60lbs for a while if you are car topping... speaking from the perspective of a
daily cartopper. I always head into the the direction of the known wind direction at sunrise then as it builds turn around and ride it back home.
Never put yourself downwind of your return destination with predictable increasing wind.
Try creating a spreadsheet with estimated weights of the boat and motor plus supplies to give your self an idea of what your getting into versus what
you are capable of. Small boating is all geometry. The boat will plane easily if it sits flat, if not it will take more power to plane.
...if you take gnukids advice you'd never be able to go out in the Gulf off Baja as the wind is in your face on the return trip home most of the time.
Let's not forget virtually all of the Mexican pangas are single 2 stroke outboards. I don't hear of too many Gringos complaining about going out
with them. Their outboards seem to run most of the time.
I have a 15 hp 2-stroke Evinrude...weighs 72 lbs. The same motor in a 4-stroke...120 lbs. Try carrying that over cobble beaches or 300-500 yards of
sand beach to your boat.
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msteve1014
Senior Nomad
Posts: 947
Registered: 12-2-2006
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If you can get a 14' boat on top of the truck, camper, whatever... You can carry a 4 stroke motor to the boat. The 20 hp honda is the one to get if
you can afford it. I have a 15 hp yamaha 4 stroke on a 12' duroboat, and it is plenty fast with 2 or 3 people in it. I would not have a 2 stroke again
if you paid me.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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El Faro,
The wind is predictable generally, on the Sea of Cortez and the Pacific it either blows Northwest or North most often or South and rarely East or
West. So, if you know it will probably blow from the North after 10am, my simple suggestion is don't head south between 9-10, if you want to go South
from your point of entry, do so early and then return north prior to the wind. Simple but hard for some to understand. The same applies at sunset.
This is something you can tell many boaters til your are blue in the face and about half won't listen and get rescued often or come in somewhere else
and come for their car.
The issue with motors is quite simple, everyone (like me) thinks they want a 25hp on a small boat, but if you do the motor is about 155lbs, plus gas
tank and bucket of tools and gear, thats going to be 200-225lbs of crap in the back along with you @ 180lbs driving the hand held motor, now you've
got 400lbs in the back of the boat. Which means it takes more gas, more power and bigger wake to get going.
On the other hand, if you get a 9.9hp motor at 100lbs and use less gas you reduce your weight, more effort to balance the weight will allow a 6hp or
9.9 to easily plane. I know. Plus you will be able to get in and out with out hurting yourself.
Your goal in fishing is generally 7knots or so max. You have no need in going faster except to get someone sooner, but with planning that isn't
required besides going fast is more dangerous.
The other issue is economics, larger motors cost more money and require more gas. I believe there are perfect choices for everyone, but until you try
you won't know, so your first foray should be conservative with less weight, every boater can always use a little 8 or 9.9hp 4 stroke, they are the
most popular motors in the world, so there is no reason to feel it is a waste to get one to start off, and you will go boating.
Anyway, if any of you seniors try to life a 100-150lb motor in and out, plus tank full of gas, push a boat in and out and lift it on the roof you will
have a hernia and never go boating again.
FYI I boat to islands, and often go 30miles a day in the sea of cortez and off the pacific coast, often with multiple people in the boat.
FYI there are traditional pangueros in La Paz that go out with 3 or 4 hp motors and many who use no motor an rely on the wind, a basic sail and oars.
My final recommendation is the 9.9hp 4 stroke in this case with a Nomad seal of approval. When some young boy complains that your tin boat won't plane
with all his buddies inside you will thank me again.
I believe there is an excellent book on this very subject of geometry, building small boats er something.
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Pacifico
Super Nomad
Posts: 1299
Registered: 5-26-2008
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Yakyak,
Obviously you have a lot of info to consider. One thing you don't want to do is buy an engine and find out later that you wish you bought a bigger
one. (I've done this)
One thing I've found is that it looks like the 15 and 20 hp engines are the same weight. Yamaha 15 and 20 are 115 pounds, Honda 15 and 20 are 104/110
pounds depending on type.
The 9.9 hp engines are less; Yamaha is 91 pounds and the Honda is 92/98/107 pounds depending on type. (I don't know what Honda's type S, L, and X
are.)
Good luck on your purchase! Here are a couple links with info:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcatspecs/5/...
http://marine.honda.com/products/compare/BF9.9,BF15,BF20
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Paladin
Nomad
Posts: 164
Registered: 3-25-2006
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2 strokes are better to find your way back to where you get bit.
Just follow the oil slick.
A little oil is no big deal, just ask BP.
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yakyak2010
Junior Nomad
Posts: 94
Registered: 4-24-2010
Location: Victorville, Ca.
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motor
You guys are great, now I just need to decide who's right. Really I appreciate all your input. One way or another in October we'll be at Gonzaga
Bay with something.
Thanks to all.
I\'ve been told I\'m preoccupied with Baja. They just don\"t understand, in fact neither do I.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
don't "cheap out"
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Well, I really agree with this statement.
Having a motor in top shape is the most important component of a tin boat trip. It can save your life.
Maintain them meticulously and when they start to go bad I just get rid of them. Breaking down out there isn't the same as on the highway. When you
buy a used motor you don't really know what you're getting for sure. I would buy a new one like the lady says. I've never seen a small tin boat with a
backup motor (now that would be an interesting topic to discuss).
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Let's not forget virtually all of the Mexican pangas are single 2 stroke outboards. I don't hear of too many Gringos complaining about going out
with them. Their outboards seem to run most of the time.
. |
Around here almost all the pangeros have gone to four strokes.
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beachbum1A
Nomad
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Registered: 6-17-2006
Location: Punta Banda, BC
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For Baja car topping my suggestion would be a 15-20 hp 2-stroke. I have a 15 hp Evinrude (1995 model) that weighs in a 75 lbs and will push my 12' tin
boat 20 mph with (2) guys
Cheap to operate and very reliable.
Just do it!
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