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LancairDriver
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US Drug War Aid in Mexico
Hope this helps the effort.
NORTHCOM's "Campaign Framework": US Northern Command, backing Mexico's forces against violent drug traffickers, has devised a broad plan for the
effort, says its commander. Adm. James Winnefeld last week told a National Homeland Defense Foundation conference in Colorado Springs, Colo., that he
has presented for US interagency review "the outline of a campaign framework by which we can approach this problem." It takes into account not only
the US-Mexico border, but also Mexico's southern border, its seaward approaches, and Central and South America. He provided few details during his
Oct. 29 remarks, but noted, "I would tell you candidly that I believe the decisive theaters in this struggle are inside the United States, and inside
Mexico. We have to get a handle on weapons and money flowing south in Mexico. We also need to get a handle on our own drug demand, and, at the same
time, we need to help our partners."
"Battle for Future of Mexico": As drug violence in Mexico has flared, the US military has grown active, providing the Mexican forces with equipment,
training, and intelligence. US Northern Command's commander, Adm. James Winnefeld, speaking in Colorado Springs, Colo., warned that Mexico is in a war
"and we ought to do everything we can to help them win it." He called Mexico City "courageous" for taking on the criminal organizations, despite the
resulting violence. Winnefeld: "The government of Mexico has decided to take this problem on, and they didn't have to do it. They could have backed
off and let things lie the way they were, but they have decided that this is a battle for the future of Mexico." He noted in his Oct. 29 address,
that, despite historic political sensitivities, "they've asked for our help in certain areas," and that "we are doing everything we can to help . . .
in the right way."
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durrelllrobert
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
He noted in his Oct. 29 address, that, despite historic political sensitivities, "they've asked for our help in certain areas," and that "we are
doing everything we can to help . . . in the right way." |
....which is 
Bob Durrell
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sancho
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Wasn't the WAR ON DRUGS started back in
the Nixon days? And the success of that
was what?
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toneart
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Vague, and nothing new. 
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BillP
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
He noted in his Oct. 29 address, that, despite historic political sensitivities, "they've asked for our help in certain areas," and that "we are
doing everything we can to help . . . in the right way." |
....which is |
Throw money at it like we've always
done.
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DavidE
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Heck, I know! Let's all buy a few ounces and pretend like the proceeds are going to the American Cancer Society. American consumers of things illicit
could care less if their recreation burns a thousand babies at the stake. The What Me Worry Crowd is about as sensitive as a rock. What a shame.
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mcfez
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Yeah.....I remember San Francisco running a special drug enforcement....lots of talk...bla bla bla
Didnt make one dent in the drug business.
More drugs in my clubs than booze!
Oh Nixon's declaration...I remember that too..same time as the politicians said "we're going to fix the schools" :-) Zzzzzzzzzz
Either legalize all the stuff......or take the dealers straight out to the wall and shoot em.....
But...my grand kids be reading the same ol news as I did 35 years ago.....nothing seems to move in this country.
[Edited on 11-2-2010 by mcfez]
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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LancairDriver
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Rumor has it in DEA circles that a Predator unmanned air program similar to the one being waged in Northern Pakistan is being discussed with the
Mexican Government. One minute the Narco's are gathered enjoying fish tacos and cervesa's and planning the next massacre, the next they are vaporized.
Probably won't happen for political reasons, but would be very effective if it did.
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ramuma53
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To combat the drug traffic you have to understand the foundations.
Drug trafficking is not new and is caused because of the law of offer and demand, you can close an avenue and another will open right away and in that
sense, the war on drugs as it is now, it is lost already. A law is named a law because it always happen that way, you cannot circumvent it.
That mean, that you have to end the demand for drugs before the supply end, any other way, it will just find another route and every American
politician know that, but that mean that they are just playing with that problem.
In Mexico, everybody said, --it is for the Gringos, let them kill themselves—but as soon as 1990 some people, me among others, were warning about the
Mexico´s Colombianization and that mean the takeover of Mexico by the drug cartels, but nobody listened.
At this time Mexico arrived to that state of affairs, it is colombianizated and the effects are:
Mexico is now a drug user.
Mexico is now a war zone.
Mexico political establishment is now under menace.
Mexico´s drug traffickers are now among the richest people on earth, cited now as some of the most influential people in the world Chapo Guzman. They
are now controlling East Europe and North Africa.
All that power need money and from where do you think the money is coming? Yes you are right the USA.
This claim to the top of the world has occurred in the past 9 years and that is the time PAN political party has been in power in Mexico and I am not
saying that they are the drug traffickers, only that they lost control.
That is why Calderon the now Mexico´s president, initiated the war on drugs, he is fighting for the political class security and not winning at all,
also trying to correct the President Fox mistake of letting them take over.
The options:
1.- Legalize drugs to take away the money from the traffickers.- That mean we will have now two countries hooked on drugs, USA and Mexico and that is
not a light problem, that would create a huge market, but, creativity, efficiency and work capacity will drop more. Just see the USA, a few years back
it was on top of everything, now it is among the 8 to 10 th. in everything, it is clearly going down. Mexico being one of the most dynamic countries
in Latin America are among the worst in economical performance but at the same time has some of the richest people in the world; is that what we
want?????
2.- Declare a world war on drugs.- Drug traffickers are not a clear enemy, they are among the policeman, among the politicians, the drug traffickers
are just the fronts; some say that drug wars can be won with more guns and training and money but just see Colombia, it now has American military
bases and American military are fighting there too and Cocaine traffik is the same as always.
3.- Continue as it was a few years ago.- PRI political party whose comeback now seem inevitable, managed that problem for years, in that era, drug
traffic existed but was under control by Mexican intelligence together with the American CIA, they can control the problem and make it invisible; no
more dead people on the streets, they will exist, but will be buried in secret; any drug trafficker that break the silence code will just disappear
and no drug trafficker will be allowed among the richest people in the world or among the most influential people; you will say that as a solution,
but silence rarely is a solution, it is only a cover up. Anyway it is the future I think will happen in the next 8 years.
As you see, there are no solutions because it has no solution but the first one and that is to end demand of drugs, now just pick your choice and
remember how China controlled its opium drug problem, the Opium wars against England while killing every drug user and trafficker. Are we going that
way???????
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Cypress
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Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
Yeah.....I remember San Francisco running a special drug enforcement....lots of talk...bla bla bla
Didnt make one dent in the drug business.
More drugs in my clubs than booze!
Oh Nixon's declaration...I remember that too..same time as the politicians said "we're going to fix the schools" :-) Zzzzzzzzzz
Either legalize all the stuff......or take the dealers straight out to the wall and shoot em.....
But...my grand kids be reading the same ol news as I did 35 years ago.....nothing seems to move in this country.
[Edited on 11-2-2010 by mcfez] |
Yep!
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
Probably won't happen for political reasons, |
It could if they didn't have to get ACLU approval every time they unzip their pants. Why do they have to tell everybody everything before they do it?
Just do it, then deny it, then do it again...and again.
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toneart
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Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
To combat the drug traffic you have to understand the foundations.
Drug trafficking is not new and is caused because of the law of offer and demand, you can close an avenue and another will open right away and in that
sense, the war on drugs as it is now, it is lost already. A law is named a law because it always happen that way, you cannot circumvent it.
That mean, that you have to end the demand for drugs before the supply end, any other way, it will just find another route and every American
politician know that, but that mean that they are just playing with that problem.
In Mexico, everybody said, --it is for the Gringos, let them kill themselves—but as soon as 1990 some people, me among others, were warning about the
Mexico´s Colombianization and that mean the takeover of Mexico by the drug cartels, but nobody listened.
At this time Mexico arrived to that state of affairs, it is colombianizated and the effects are:
Mexico is now a drug user.
Mexico is now a war zone.
Mexico political establishment is now under menace.
Mexico´s drug traffickers are now among the richest people on earth, cited now as some of the most influential people in the world Chapo Guzman. They
are now controlling East Europe and North Africa.
All that power need money and from where do you think the money is coming? Yes you are right the USA.
This claim to the top of the world has occurred in the past 9 years and that is the time PAN political party has been in power in Mexico and I am not
saying that they are the drug traffickers, only that they lost control.
That is why Calderon the now Mexico´s president, initiated the war on drugs, he is fighting for the political class security and not winning at all,
also trying to correct the President Fox mistake of letting them take over.
The options:
1.- Legalize drugs to take away the money from the traffickers.- That mean we will have now two countries hooked on drugs, USA and Mexico and that is
not a light problem, that would create a huge market, but, creativity, efficiency and work capacity will drop more. Just see the USA, a few years back
it was on top of everything, now it is among the 8 to 10 th. in everything, it is clearly going down. Mexico being one of the most dynamic countries
in Latin America are among the worst in economical performance but at the same time has some of the richest people in the world; is that what we
want?????
2.- Declare a world war on drugs.- Drug traffickers are not a clear enemy, they are among the policeman, among the politicians, the drug traffickers
are just the fronts; some say that drug wars can be won with more guns and training and money but just see Colombia, it now has American military
bases and American military are fighting there too and Cocaine traffik is the same as always.
3.- Continue as it was a few years ago.- PRI political party whose comeback now seem inevitable, managed that problem for years, in that era, drug
traffic existed but was under control by Mexican intelligence together with the American CIA, they can control the problem and make it invisible; no
more dead people on the streets, they will exist, but will be buried in secret; any drug trafficker that break the silence code will just disappear
and no drug trafficker will be allowed among the richest people in the world or among the most influential people; you will say that as a solution,
but silence rarely is a solution, it is only a cover up. Anyway it is the future I think will happen in the next 8 years.
As you see, there are no solutions because it has no solution but the first one and that is to end demand of drugs, now just pick your choice and
remember how China controlled its opium drug problem, the Opium wars against England while killing every drug user and trafficker. Are we going that
way??????? |
This is a good analysis of the situation! As for your last paragraph, the answer is No! We are not going that way. However, when the
winning, most powerful cartel becomes integrated into the government as part of the PRI, they will kill every other drug trafficker.
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ramuma53
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If we say, the past is a clue to the future, PRI was effectively controlling the traffic and at that time, 1985, Marijuana traffic was Mexico´s second
exportation item to the USA, just under oil.
It worked from 1965 and for years and years, until a political event moved every balance.
Mexico started to support the Contras in Nicaragua, against the USA, lending them oil, then USA politicians just said, Ok, you help our enemies, I
will close your second exportation item and the war on drugs initiated catching Rafael Caro Quintero because of the Camarena DEA agent killing, but
the balance was upset and since that time, control was lost, because those disciplined drug lords, were the ones keeping the Pease among the drug
traffickers, they took them away and every small drug trafficker created their own cartel, out of government control and started to fight for control
among them, then you have the actual drug wars in Mexico.
Another part of the control was that it was operated as a concession, the government gave you permission to traffic in only one area, Caro Quintero
for Marijauana, Cochiloco for Heroin, Miguel Felix Gallardo for Cocaine, all drug lords, but compadres among themselves, no fights; if the USA said, I
want to slow cocaine traffic, they just said it to Mexico´s government, then they ordered the specific drug lord and cocaine traffic was slowed and
everybody was happy, but with the war on drugs they took away those disciplined drug lords and the concession system, now drug lords under PAN pay for
an area, and they can commit any crime there, with impunity, then they said, Ok why not kidnapping, why not extortion and they started to charge every
small criminal to allow them to use their area, an area they were paying for and you made them territorial animals who kill everyone who enter their
area and that is what you see today in Mexico; who started that? Both Mexico´s and American politicians; who can correct it? The same people who
started it, but not the drug problem, only the violence less drug traffic.
Now, we have drugs on every small town in Mexico, most policeman are on the take, they catch them from police school and the ones who resist are
killed and that is why a lot of police cadets are killed in Tijuana, the money from the drug cartels come as wage and is bigger than the city´s wage;
then who are the drug traffickers? The policeman, the politicians or the ones who pay for all.
How are you going to drop a bomb on a drug trafficker? The same way you are dropping it on Obama Bin Laden? A predator can kill only what it can see
and drug traffickers are among you normal people.
It is impossible now to evade the near future, PRI will take over government in Mexico, statistical analysis say it clear; who will take over PRI is
more important now because a return to the past will calm people but will have to start with a bigger war that will have to kill every actual drug
lord so new more malleable ones take over and then calm again, but no end for the drug trafficking.
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DavidE
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Predator aircraft have been entering Mexican airspace with permission since 2007. They are based at McDill AFB. Their mission is intelligence
gathering and mapping. A Big Bird is gathering and relaying telecommunications to Ft. Meade Md. for analysis.
Mexico would never allow armed drones to pass into Mexican airspace under any circumstances. MQ-1 Predator aircraft have enhanced time on target
capabilities, with endurance well over 36 hours. They are absolutely silent (less than -25db) at an altitude of 1,000 meters over target, and have
color spectrum analysis capabilities that can deliniate one square inch of marijuana at that altitude. Multitasking allows the aircraft to gather
cellular and satellite telephone transmissions and can triangulate and co-ordinate signal vectors to within one tenth of one meter.
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Bajahowodd
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Return to the past with PRI? Don't overlook the fact that the genie is out of the bottle. How would the US DEA possibly accept such a solution? Mind
you, I think the war on drugs is an abject failure. But, we've managed to develop a huge industry/ bureaucracy to fight the war. Don't these guys
contemplating a career change any time soon. If anything, post-Calderon, relations between the US and Mexico might get very rocky.
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LancairDriver
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Predator aircraft have been entering Mexican airspace with permission since 2007. They are based at McDill AFB. Their mission is intelligence
gathering and mapping. A Big Bird is gathering and relaying telecommunications to Ft. Meade Md. for analysis.
Mexico would never allow armed drones to pass into Mexican airspace under any circumstances. MQ-1 Predator aircraft have enhanced time on target
capabilities, with endurance well over 36 hours. They are absolutely silent (less than -25db) at an altitude of 1,000 meters over target, and have
color spectrum analysis capabilities that can deliniate one square inch of marijuana at that altitude. Multitasking allows the aircraft to gather
cellular and satellite telephone transmissions and can triangulate and co-ordinate signal vectors to within one tenth of one meter.
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I wouldn't discount the possibility of armed Predator strikes in Mexico in the not to distant future given the level of the escalation of violence
recently. The fact is that our military is showing more interest and the success of the Predator program in Pakistan is an indicator of the most
successful terrorist eradication tool presently available. It is only a matter of time before the Narco's grease the wrong people (on either side of
the border) and the gloves will come off. The present strategy of raiding the Narco's randomly with a military force has produced too many friendly
casualties and with the corrupt Police tipping off the bad guys it results in no gain at all.
The psychological effect of being vaporized by something you can't see or hear in a hideout or driving in a car previously assumed safe has a very
sobering effect.
Also, who would they retaliate against? This kind of war can be fought with unseen warriors armed with a little intelligence on the ground.
The very existence of the Mexican government is now in jeopardy with the present situation, and you can bet this will not be allowed to happen.
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DENNIS
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Posts: 29510
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
I wouldn't discount the possibility of armed Predator strikes in Mexico in the not to distant future given the level of the escalation of violence
recently. |
That would be an act of war if initiated from our side without cooperation. Can you imagine how many ABC busses it would take to safely remove US
expats from Mexico? You wouln't be driving your own vehicle through hostile territory and, given the green light, Mexicans will be hostile towards
us.
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Dave
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Excellent idea!
| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
remember how China controlled its opium drug problem, the Opium wars against England while killing every drug user and trafficker. Are we going that
way??????? |
But there's no need to eliminate the traffickers. They're just providing the product.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
But there's no need to eliminate the traffickers. They're just providing the product. |
Is that a joke??
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Cypress
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Just eliminate the customers! They're providing the market!
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