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Woooosh
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Operation "Fast and Furious" ...ATF agent: "I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico"
If true, today we became the enemy of the Mexican people. Everyone will and ought to be furious. I'll bet this didn't come up in Calderon and Obama's
chat about guns today. These agents were ordered to watched the flow of guns into Baja and Mexico. One agent e-mailed the consequences: "958 killed
in March 2010 ... most violent month since 2005. The same e-mail notes: "Our subjects purchased 359 firearms during March alone," including "numerous
Barrett .50 caliber rifles."
On Dec. 14, 2010, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was gunned down. "They said, 'Did you hear about the border patrol agent?' And I said, 'Yeah.' And
they said 'Well it was one of the Fast and Furious guns.' If the idea was to track the guns after they crossed into Mexico- how was that supposed to
work?
CBS Story: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20...
Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico
ATF agent says "Fast and Furious" program let guns "walk" into hands of Mexican drug cartels with aim of tracking and breaking a big case.
(CBS News) WASHINGTON - Federal agent John Dodson says what he was asked to do was beyond belief. He was intentionally letting guns go to Mexico?
"Yes ma'am," Dodson told CBS News. "The agency was."
An Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms senior agent assigned to the Phoenix office in 2010, Dodson's job is to stop gun trafficking across the border.
Instead, he says he was ordered to sit by and watch it happen.
Investigators call the tactic letting guns "walk." In this case, walking into the hands of criminals who would use them in Mexico and the United
States.
Dodson's bosses say that never happened. Now, he's risking his job to go public. "I'm boots on the ground in Phoenix, telling you we've been doing it
every day since I've been here," he said. "Here I am. Tell me I didn't do the things that I did. Tell me you didn't order me to do the things I did.
Tell me it didn't happen. Now you have a name on it. You have a face to put with it. Here I am. Someone now, tell me it didn't happen."
Agent Dodson and other sources say the gun walking strategy was approved all the way up to the Justice Department. The idea was to see where the guns
ended up, build a big case and take down a cartel. And it was all kept secret from Mexico.
ATF named the case "Fast and Furious."
Surveillance video obtained by CBS News shows suspected drug cartel suppliers carrying boxes of weapons to their cars at a Phoenix gun shop. The long
boxes shown in the video being loaded in were AK-47-type assault rifles.
So it turns out ATF not only allowed it - they videotaped it.
Documents show the inevitable result: The guns that ATF let go began showing up at crime scenes in Mexico. And as ATF stood by watching thousands of
weapons hit the streets... the Fast and Furious group supervisor noted the escalating Mexican violence.
One e-mail noted, "958 killed in March 2010 ... most violent month since 2005." The same e-mail notes: "Our subjects purchased 359 firearms during
March alone," including "numerous Barrett .50 caliber rifles."
Dodson feels that ATF was partly to blame for the escalating violence in Mexico and on the border. "I even asked them if they could see the
correlation between the two," he said. "The more our guys buy, the more violence we're having down there."
Senior agents including Dodson told CBS News they confronted their supervisors over and over. Their answer, according to Dodson, was, "If you're going
to make an omelette, you've got to break some eggs."
There was so much opposition to the gun walking, that an ATF supervisor issued an e-mail noting a "schism" among the agents. "Whether you care or not
people of rank and authority at HQ are paying close attention to this case...we are doing what they envisioned.... If you don't think this is fun
you're in the wrong line of work... Maybe the Maricopa County jail is hiring detention officers and you can get $30,000 ... to serve lunch to
inmates..."
"We just knew it wasn't going to end well. There's just no way it could," Dodson said. On Dec. 14, 2010, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was gunned
down. Dodson got the bad news from a colleague. According to Dodson, "They said, 'Did you hear about the border patrol agent?' And I said, 'Yeah.'
And they said 'Well it was one of the Fast and Furious guns.' There's not really much you can say after that."
Two assault rifles ATF had let go nearly a year before were found at Terry's murder. Dodson said, "I felt guilty. I mean it's crushing. I don't know
how to explain it."
Sen. Grassley began investigating after his office spoke to Dodson and a dozen other ATF sources -- all telling the same story. The response was
"practically zilch," Grassley said. "From the standpoint that documents we want - we have not gotten them. I think it's a case of stonewalling."
Dodson said he hopes that speaking out helps Terry's family. They haven't been told much of anything about his murder - or where the bullet came from.
"First of all, I'd tell them that I'm sorry. Second of all, I'd tell them I've done everything that I can for them to get the truth," Dodson said.
"After this, I don't know what else I can do. But I hope they get it."
Dodson said they never did take down a drug cartels. However, he said thousands of Fast and Furious weapons are still out there and will be claiming
victims on both sides of the border for years to come.
Late tonight, the ATF said it will convene a panel to look into its national firearms trafficking strategy. But it refused to comment specifically on
Sharyl's report. Statement from Kenneth E. Melson, Acting Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives: "The Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) will ask a multi-disciplinary panel of law enforcement professionals to review the bureau's current firearms
trafficking strategies employed by field division managers and special agents. This review will enable ATF to maximize its effectiveness when
undertaking complex firearms trafficking investigations and prosecutions. It will support the goals of ATF to stem the illegal flow of firearms to
Mexico and combat firearms trafficking in the United States."
[Edited on 3-4-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Dave
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NOT an accurate statement
"I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico"
It is the Mexican government who lets guns into Mexico.
Just as our government lets illegals and drugs into the U.S.
[Edited on 3-4-2011 by Dave]
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
"I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico"
It is the Mexican government who lets guns into Mexico.
Just as our government lets illegals and drugs into the U.S.
[Edited on 3-4-2011 by Dave] |
That's all we got- "Mexico had the door open?" It's not enough imho. Really- that's the best defense we have for providing the cartel with some 1,500
high-powered weapons that even killed our own agents? How about the disregard for Mexican and expat civilian lives, the destruction of their tourist
industry that is taking down our Baja economy?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Dave
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Sorry...
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
Really- that's the best defense we have for providing the cartel with some 1,500 high-powered weapons that even killed our own agents? How about the
disregard for Mexican and expat civilian lives, the destruction of their tourist industry that is taking down our Baja economy?
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But we don't need a defense. Everything that's happening in Mexico is Mexico's doing. They are their own masters.
Now, if you could prove some official clandestine effort to smuggle weapons into Mexico I'd support your position 100%.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
Everything that's happening in Mexico is Mexico's doing. They are their own masters.
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Jajajajajaja!!! thats probably one of your most innacurate statements ever Dave.
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BajaBruceFan
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| Quote: | But we don't need a defense. Everything that's happening in Mexico is Mexico's doing. They are their own masters.
Now, if you could prove some official clandestine effort to smuggle weapons into Mexico I'd support your position 100%.
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So by the same logic, the drugs that find their across the US border are 100% America's fault and the Mexican cartels carry none of the blame?
Can't have it both ways....
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Jajajajajaja!!! thats probably one of your most innacurate statements ever Dave. |
I respect your expertise.
Prove me wrong.
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Dave
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Correct
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruceFan
So by the same logic, the drugs that find their across the US border are 100% America's fault and the Mexican cartels carry none of the blame?
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Barry A.
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Bottom line---------Dave is mostly correct.
Rule of economics---------whenever there is "demand", some humans will seek to exploit and satisfy that demand, for profit.
All participants are "to blame".
That's my take, anyway.
Barry
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
"I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico"
It is the Mexican government who lets guns into Mexico.
Just as our government lets illegals and drugs into the U.S.
[Edited on 3-4-2011 by Dave] |
Dave,
The ATF agents are saying they were ordered to look the other way and so they did...and a U.S. border agent died because of it (not to mention all the
tragic deaths in Mexico that occured because of these smuggled weapons.
That directly implicates not only the ATF agency but our whole government policy in our so called War On Drugs..
There are no benevolent angels here. The blame lies on official and unofficial government policy on both sides of the border.
The Cartels are involved in a dirty business. Why wouldn't they gladly receive the present of smuggled guns that were enabled by U.S. policy? Hello?
War is an industry. Everyone involved in arms manufacturing and distribution, as well as the politicians makes money!
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DENNIS
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I saw this agent in an interview on TV last night. Although he won't be doing much possitive for the unemployment figures, I think we'll be seeing a
lot of him in the near future. I hope so, anyway.
These allegations are sickening. What are these rogue agencies thinking?
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
I saw this agent in an interview on TV last night. Although he won't be doing much possitive for the unemployment figures, I think we'll be seeing a
lot of him in the near future. I hope so, anyway.
These allegations are sickening. What are these rogue agencies thinking? |
I wonder how high up this goes? 
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
I wonder how high up this goes? |
There's only an uber-bloated government standing between your question and an honest answer.
How can an agency, in this day and age, commit such an egregious act and expect it not to surface? Everybody involved knew it was wrong.
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tripledigitken
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We will all be watching this story to see how it all plays out.
Arms trade is a huge worldwide industry. The cartels have big money to spend and are looking for the best deal. They will get the arms they want at
the cheapest price whether that is from the USA, or elsewhere.
Arms need to go to Mexico, but not to the Cartels, IMO
Ken
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djh
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruceFan
But we don't need a defense. Everything that's happening in Mexico is Mexico's doing. They are their own masters.
Now, if you could prove some official clandestine effort to smuggle weapons into Mexico I'd support your position 100%.
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So by the same logic, the drugs that find their across the US border are 100% America's fault and the Mexican cartels carry none of the blame?
Can't have it both ways.... |
Blame ? Blame a country ? Hmmmm . . . . seems a bit generalized, vague, and not helpful or productive. The individuals involved should be
held accountable.... PERSONAL responsibility and accountability is paramount - regardless of how far up (or down) the chain it goes.
MANY individuals are links in this chain: the users / consumers, the street level dealers, their suppliers, the manufacturers and distributors, the
cartels, those in cahoots (however large or small) with the cartels, and any officials / politicians who are benefitting in any way from this scourge.
I realize that is a very large group of individuals . . . (huge) and that is why this is such a huge, multinational problem.
Easy on each other, Nomads.... we're all paddling this (sinking) canoe together. 
djh
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by djh
Easy on each other, Nomads.... we're all paddling this (sinking) canoe together.
djh |
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/26980116_3801b2e59c.jpg
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Barry A.
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As you all know, I normally defend Law Enforcement, but even I admit this appears to be "beyond the pale"--------and I echo, "WHAT WERE THEY
THINKING"???? Like Brenda in the program THE CLOSER, it would appear that they wanted to "make a case", and to heck with the unintended (but
obvious) consequences. Not good.
Barry
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
As you all know, I normally defend Law Enforcement, but even I admit this appears to be "beyond the pale"--------and I echo, "WHAT WERE THEY
THINKING"???? Like Brenda in the program THE CLOSER, it would appear that they wanted to "make a case", and to heck with the unintended (but
obvious) consequences. Not good.
Barry |
Yep! If you put the bait in the mousetrap without setting the spring mechanism, the mouse will just get fatter.
Pretty soon the mice will be demanding better cheese!
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
The ATF agents are saying they were ordered to look the other way and so they did...and a U.S. border agent died because of it (not to mention all the
tragic deaths in Mexico that occured because of these smuggled weapons.
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The agent was murdered because he was in Mexico, unchaperoned and unarmed. If it hadn't been this particular weapon it would have
been another.
And, no U.S. agency smuggled these weapons into Mexico. I'm betting it was all Mexican citizens.
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Cypress
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The good ole' "blame the USA" crowd is dancing on this guys grave.
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