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monoloco
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Insightful Interview with Charles Bowden
http://www.counterpunch.org/zlutnick07082011.html
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Santiago
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Thanks for the link. Good interview.
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toneart
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This is a very comprehensive and well written article, as is most everything coming out of The Nation press.
Of course, the writer is focusing on Mexico, but you could say the same elements are destroying The United States; NAFTA, racism driven fear to
implement a fair immigration policy, The War on Drugs, all of the stupid wars we are involved in, including the war on the middle class.
Between the No Empathy "Party of NO", and the Obama no backbone Party of No Change, we are going down.
Too Bad! We have lived through the best of times in what was the best country in the world; not perfect, but still, was the best.
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tjBill
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Interesting. Charles Bowden really knows the border region whether or not you agree with his political views.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tjBill
Interesting. Charles Bowden really knows the border region whether or not you agree with his political views. |
I'm a big fan of Bowden. How could anybody dispute the guy?? I would love to see anybody call him wrong, with references.
It won't happen.
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Bajahowodd
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Really great contribution. Bowden really nails it.
And he had me from the beginning. Although it was not specifically mentioned, a long time, chronic issue between Mexico and the US was what we did in
the so-called war.
Just several years before it, the US acquired Florida from Spain, and in that treaty it was reaffirmed that the US respected the exisitng borders with
the New Spain territory.
Greedy, expansionists in the US decided to steal what is today a huge amount of the American Southwest from the newly liberated Mexico, under the
guise that the US had no treaties with this new country.
We did steal something like 40% of Mexico's territory merely because we could.
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Cisco
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Monoloco:
Wow. Thank you for your post.
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dtutko1
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Makes things seem kind of hopeless. How long can we continue to dance between the raindrops?
Dorado Don
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TMW
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["Now Calderón is a very devout Catholic and he believes deeply in free trade. He belongs to a party there that would be like the Republican Party
here. So he thinks he's giving shock therapy essentially to his own nation. One. Two: I don't think he had any idea really what he was getting into.
He thought he'd prove he was a powerful strongman, and the country exploded because he didn't know his own country. What I mean when I say "ripped the
mask off" is that he had assumptions about Mexico that were not true. And now the real Mexico's there—a country full of poor people with a corrupt
government and there's—in a way a lot of the violence is like a mass revolt in the country. It's not political, it's simply, look, there's not a
future for a lot of people, there's no money, there's no jobs. And now they're just killing each other and robbing. That's a lot of the crime—it has
nothing to do with cartels fighting [each other]…"]
Frankly I think this is a pretty stupid comment. Does anyone here not think Mexico is full of poor people and the government is corrupt? And has been
for decades. I don't think Calderon is that stupid.
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BajaBlanca
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I had no idea of the horrific ramifications of NAFTA ....
How does one remove corruption which has been present over centuries ?
and the very thought that drug cash kept banks afloat is probably true but makes me sick.
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DianaT
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Thanks! A good read. 
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baja1943
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
I had no idea of the horrific ramifications of NAFTA ....
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NAFTA the cheap labor agreement. Wake up everyone, the ramifications were staring all of you in the face
when it was conceived. What did you think it was about? 
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tripledigitken
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| Quote: | Originally posted by baja1943
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
I had no idea of the horrific ramifications of NAFTA ....
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NAFTA the cheap labor agreement. Wake up everyone, the ramifications were staring all of you in the face
when it was conceived. What did you think it was about?
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The point made in the piece about renegotiating NAFTA to raise the labor rates makes sense. There's enough room to raise the wages to a livable wage
for the local labor force, and still be a fraction of the cost of the USA.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
["Now Calderón is a very devout Catholic and he believes deeply in free trade. He belongs to a party there that would be like the Republican Party
here. So he thinks he's giving shock therapy essentially to his own nation. One. Two: I don't think he had any idea really what he was getting into.
He thought he'd prove he was a powerful strongman, and the country exploded because he didn't know his own country. What I mean when I say "ripped the
mask off" is that he had assumptions about Mexico that were not true. And now the real Mexico's there—a country full of poor people with a corrupt
government and there's—in a way a lot of the violence is like a mass revolt in the country. It's not political, it's simply, look, there's not a
future for a lot of people, there's no money, there's no jobs. And now they're just killing each other and robbing. That's a lot of the crime—it has
nothing to do with cartels fighting [each other]…"]
Frankly I think this is a pretty stupid comment. Does anyone here not think Mexico is full of poor people and the government is corrupt? And has been
for decades. I don't think Calderon is that stupid. |
I don't believe that Bowden is saying that Calderon
didn't know that Mexico has a corrupt government and poor people, what he is saying is that he didn't understand that free trade was driving poverty
and the crime rate and not benefiting the average worker in Mexico.
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monoloco
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Free trade agreements, and the IMF have been ruinous to the economies of the US, Mexico, and many other countries.
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Bajahowodd
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Free trade works very well among equals. The problem with NAFTA is that it was not among equals.
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TMW
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Bowden claims that NAFTA caused the migration of poor Mexicans to the US because NAFTA had an effect on the corn crops. Well didn't Reagan give
amnesty to about 12 million Mexicans when he was president in the 80s well before NAFTA. NAFTA took affect in Jan 1994 and I would bet that of the
est. 13 million illegal Mexicans in the US now many came between the Reagans amnasty and 94. I think the influx of illegals into the US was because we
had work to do and not enough field workers to do it and still don't. Mexico has always been a poor country and the field workers see the US as the
place to go for work and make money. Our problem is the US government doesn't have a clue on how to handle the job of getting Mexicans that want to
work the fields to the farmers who need them. Instead of trying to solve the problem everyone has made it politcal.
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wessongroup
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Ditto's...
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
I think the influx of illegals into the US was because we had work to do and not enough field workers to do it and still don't.
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Perhaps so, but a large portion of the illegals are not here for farm work. They do other work as well.
Not to mention, the communities of illegals in the US have made the crossing much more complicated than in the past. It's like a trip home for many of
them, even if it's their first time.
| Quote: | | Mexico has always been a poor country and the field workers see the US as the place to go for work and make money. Our problem is the US government
doesn't have a clue on how to handle the job of getting Mexicans that want to work the fields to the farmers who need them. Instead of trying to solve
the problem everyone has made it politcal. |
A revision of the Bracero Program is perhaps in order. Well...maybe. Point is, our government isn't going to do anything. They treat it as a
self-moderating issue.
Freakin morawns.
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wessongroup
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Been a while since I have been in the Central Valley at harvest ... in places like Delano, Parlier, Firebaugh, and a few other "cities" which see the
influx of folks to pick... but, somehow I don't think it's changed... in over 20 years... since I was last actively involved in Ag...
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